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Why am I underwhelmed by my MCS -> Yamaha receiver upgrade?

Every CR-620 I've worked on has had a cap problem. My theory is they cleaned the board with something that caused them to degrade, or they just bought a bad batch. The CR-620 is exquisite when working right, but if it hasn't been fully recapped and the tuner aligned, it's just as you describe. I don't usually suggest a full recap as it's rarely needed, but IMHO the CR-620 is a big exception. I wrote up an alignment page, but added some more observations (scroll down to service notes)- http://www.conradhoffman.com/Yamaha_CR_620_align.htm
 
Back in the day... Yamaha's top speakers could be bright (IMO) with the wrong front end so maybe they intentionally warmed up their amps ??
 
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I have a CR-1020 that sounded okay but eventually lost the input side one one channel. Not worth the bucks to fix so now it sits in the basement collecting dust. I always preferred the sound of the Pioneer receivers of the mid to late 70's. I really loved my old SX-737 running through a import-only pair of Sansui SP-3000's. I even had on of those spring reverb boxes that came with the speakers.

Now it's only tubes for me.
 
Kooranga said:
You AK folks were a great help to me about 3 years ago when I was trying to put together my first turntable setup. After hitting up garage sales, estate sales, and thrift stores, I wound up with a combo that was by no means anaudiophile's dream, but still pleased my ears (I listen at moderate volume):

Craig (CDC) 5101 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red
MCS 3223 Receiver (23 wpc)
JBL ARC-30 Bookshelf Speakers (8 ohms, 90dB, up to 125 watts)

I recently came across a good deal on a Yamaha CR-620 (35 wpc), a receiver that seems to be well regarded here at AK, certainly more so than my JC Penny receiver. I expected to hear a big difference, but, to be honest, I am a bit underwhelmed. The bass is better, but the mids are kinda missing, and the highs sharper, almost grating. As first impressions go, I think I like the MCS better.

I know this is all subjective, trust your ears, etc. But is this is a matching issue? In other words, does the "better" Yamaha simply reveal the limitations of the rest of my gear? Is there any objective reason why the MCS might sound better in this particular configuration?
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Synergy may be better. JBL of that era is often bright and so is Yamaha. Too much bright can lead to poor synergy. The Yamaha would sound better with less bright speakers like an older British style speaker or a US East Coast acoustic suspension speaker like an AR, Advent or KLH. Your room also factors into this, as does your Ortofon 2M Red (which is very forward and bright), you need something warmer in the equation, your MCS appeared to be that.
 
Thanks for all the feedback! Like always, I’ve learned a great deal from the good people of AK.

I will say that understanding how the loudness dial works has made a big difference in my appreciation of the CR-620. It’s still a tad bright for my tastes, but I’m really impressed with the detail and how compact and punchy kick drums sound. “Ventilator Blues” sounded downright blissful once I figured out the loudness.

What the hell, I’ll keep both receivers! Lolz
 
Had a BOTL CR-400 and was thoroughly enthralled by it. If it didn’t go for what I asked on CL
I would have kept it.
 
Kooranga said:
I recently came across a good deal on a Yamaha CR-620 (35 wpc), a receiver that seems to be well regarded here at AK, certainly more so than my JC Penny receiver. I expected to hear a big difference, but, to be honest, I am a bit underwhelmed. The bass is better, but the mids are kinda missing, and the highs sharper, almost grating. As first impressions go, I think I like the MCS better.

I know this is all subjective, trust your ears, etc. But is this is a matching issue? In other words, does the "better" Yamaha simply reveal the limitations of the rest of my gear? Is there any objective reason why the MCS might sound better in this particular configuration?
Click to expand...

This is very possible, just because certain lesser known models aren't often talked about doesn't mean they don't or can't sound very good and often better more regarded models.

I have a Silver Monarch (MCS 3233) here ATM that sounds quite good and have also owned a Yamaha CR-820 amongst many others, I don't doubt what you are saying. The Yamaha's are fairly forward and can be very clinical sounding but do some things very well, ie vocals. As has been mentioned synergy is important and the Yamaha may be better with laid back speakers such as B&W's.
 
One has to take into consideration, some things don't age like fine wine.
If you're going to dabble with the old school amps it's not going to be sitting at factory spec's.
And most of us don't have time or the skill to wave the magic soldering wand and replace caps.
I would love to have the confidence with big projects.
I consider myself fairly good with my soldering skills having played electric guitars for 40 years, rebuilding wiring harnesses and replacing pickups.
My two Rotel RB930 ever needs recap i think i could manage that amp, it is one of the most simple looking empty real estate circuit boards i have ever seen.
I use an Audio Control C101 EQ with my system.
But as far as Yamaha amps go i have never heard one i didn't like of the old silver face can't say i loved them.
I did notice certain speakers matched well with the ones i use to own in the past Boston's, Older KLH and Polk's borrowed my friend ADS three ways and loved them together.
But i did find myself tweaking these Yams a lot more than i would have liked to, had a certain thing about them i could never figure out.
But on the whole i liked the ones I've owned and never found them to be that bright, even with Cerwin Vegas i played through them.
Personal entertainment is a search for the holy grail of matched components mainly Amp and speaker combos when you find it stay with it.
Everyone has different taste and that taste may not sit well with others, but we are the people that need to be please.
Just pulled out a pair of Nakamichi CD decks out of the closet that i haven't played in awhile fussy Nak drawer issues but what smooth warm sounding decks.
As someone suggested try a CD player on it.
 
Honestly, in my experience and opinion, the MCS stuff, particularly the upper levels, is considerably underrated and, again IMO and experience, the Yamaha stuff is overrated, that is of course limited by the few I've owned and listened to. I've had several Yamaha receivers and was never tempted to keep any of them. Granted, I found every one of them many years (decades even) after going "over" to separates but I did own a few receivers from other manufacturers that I was tempted to keep for my workshop, but did not. The ones that come to mind are: Pioneer SX-525 or 626 (can't remember for sure), Marantz 2015, 2010, 2230, & 2245 and a Tandberg TR-2055-probably the best of the bunch.

That being said and as others have mentioned, what each of us like is subjective and I get that. It can also be argued that there's a good sounding receiver from any reputable manufacturer to suit your tastes. Transversely, I doubt that there's any single person out there who likes every model of any single brand.

Listen for a couple months and, if you feel like it's worth it, consider recapping it and if not, it's probably time to move on to another experiment. Have fun along the way and enjoy the music.
 
Some of the better MCS equipment is really quite good, from what I have read anyway. And may hold it's ground well with many of the more popular brands of their time. So the results the OP got should come as no surprise. Even sears LXI series of stereo equipment did a fine job.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Synergy may be better. JBL of that era is often bright and so is Yamaha. Too much bright can lead to poor synergy. The Yamaha would sound better with less bright speakers like an older British style speaker or a US East Coast acoustic suspension speaker like an AR, Advent or KLH. Your room also factors into this, as does your Ortofon 2M Red (which is very forward and bright), you need something warmer in the equation, your MCS appeared to be that.
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That’s good stuff to take into account. Thanks!
I’ve been reading a bit about the new ELAC Debut B6.2 bookshelf speakers. Anyone know if these would sound more bright/forward or warmer/laid-back?; or at least how they might sound in my current configuration relative to the JBL ARCA-30s I’m currently running?
 
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