newzealand
Super Member
i believe it to be of a restriction on room size mostly, i would never go back to book self speakers my self
Why bookshelf rather than floor-standers??
- Thread starter Bigmoonface
- Start date
Ridiculous. No offense, but by making such a statement its obvious you do NOT have enough experience to have any idea what you are talking about in such conversation.
Even cheaper speakers like Vintage DCM TimeFrame TF600 or 700 do not need a subwoofer.
My Von Schweikert VR4s do not need a sub, my heath/Altecs do not need a sub, the JBL 240tis do not need a sub either.
The JBL L212s DO use a sub, since they are a 3 piece system designed for a sub.
You did that much better than I would 
johnda
Addicted Member
I would love a pair of Altec Valencia’s in that great furniture look of theirs, but I am an old guy with old guy issues. I can’t hustle heavy speakers around, even if I DID have the room! My largest speaker is now the KEF Q300 and my smallest are the Dayton B652 Air and Pioneer Sp BS22 LR. Those babies I CAN move around!
A long time ago , I had some great bookshelf speakers from Visonik called Little Davids .
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I think it's safe to say that the KEF LS50 is a classic and a legend in it's own time, and it is just that because it embodies the virtues of stand mount speakers better than almost anything else at almost any price.
The LS50 design goes out of its way to mitigate baffle effects and edge diffraction. The result of that is world class imaging. No, it doesn't dig down to 30Hz, nor is it easy to drive, but what it does do it does extremely well.
In general bookshelves of roughly it's dimensions image extremely well, and if that is among your top priority, then they're worth consideration even if the space might accommodate a floorstander. It's a consideration I weighed before buying my Focals. It was these or a pair of Focal 1008Be. I didn't think they imaged substantially better than the 936's, being roughly the same width, and the 936 digs down to 32Hz. They DO NOT need subs.
Big ole baffles, of the sort that accommodate 12" woofers, experience edge diffraction. The corners of the baffle act as secondary sources of sound as the wave propogates around the corner. The time delay is small enough that it muddies the sound and contributes interference patterns which destroy imaging. Good imaging requires well controlled propogation characteristics and mitigation if first reflection surfaces. Small stand mounts are ideal for the former.
The LS50 design goes out of its way to mitigate baffle effects and edge diffraction. The result of that is world class imaging. No, it doesn't dig down to 30Hz, nor is it easy to drive, but what it does do it does extremely well.
In general bookshelves of roughly it's dimensions image extremely well, and if that is among your top priority, then they're worth consideration even if the space might accommodate a floorstander. It's a consideration I weighed before buying my Focals. It was these or a pair of Focal 1008Be. I didn't think they imaged substantially better than the 936's, being roughly the same width, and the 936 digs down to 32Hz. They DO NOT need subs.
Big ole baffles, of the sort that accommodate 12" woofers, experience edge diffraction. The corners of the baffle act as secondary sources of sound as the wave propogates around the corner. The time delay is small enough that it muddies the sound and contributes interference patterns which destroy imaging. Good imaging requires well controlled propogation characteristics and mitigation if first reflection surfaces. Small stand mounts are ideal for the former.
WaynerN
Addicted Member
I remember those!!
Yes, I agree, all speakers are a compromise and it's up to the individual audiophile to decide what matters to him/her and prioritise accordingly. Not everyone lusts after subterranean bass and health-damaging SPLs. Not everyone cares about a precise image. Choose speakers based on what you want and what you're prepared to sacrifice.
tom67
Well-Known Member
A couple of things have elevated the bookshelf speaker in popularity. 1. A lot of people double duty their system for home theater. 5 or more floor standers are just too much bulk for most homes. 2. The majority of people now use a subwoofer. That being the case, you no longer need more that 6" drivers in speakers. The OP makes a good point. By the times you mess with 2 speaker stands, you might as well choose one of the newer slender tower speakers that actually has the same foot print.
DeFriend
Active Member
Bigmoonface,
After reading the entire thread (up 49 posts now), I'm shocked at how few responses actually answer your question about footprints being equal.
Really, only posts #25, #44, #46, and #49 make reasoned answers.
I agree that speakers on stands take up just as much space as speakers directly on the floor, so why not go taller?
All of the answers concerning near-field desktop listening, speakers on other furniture, speakers on shelves, stacked speakers, and similar responses totally avoid the original question.
I have meter tall speakers that put the tweeter at ear height and have a small footprint.
I'd have liked to go several inches taller actually, but I have built in shelving that limits speaker height to 41".
With dual 8" woofers, they put out okay bass when out from the wall for great imaging, but I still have a well-placed sub for frequencies below 45 Hz. The narrow baffles satisfy concerns of edge diffraction.
And importantly, I'm not a hoarder with a closet/room full of speakers.
I think the biggest issue is that cabinet construction is often the most costly part of the overall loudspeaker.
Little speakers on stands can save a lot of money (fewer drivers and crossover items obviously bring down the price also).
You're right, that hasn't really been addressed.
Speakers on stands take up just as much floor space as slim floorstanders, so why not take advantage of the extra box volume you could have? Well the answer might be that the optimum box volume for a given driver is actually quite small, and putting those same drivers in a bigger box gives you no advantage. Maybe
twitch54
Super Member
You're right, that hasn't really been addressed.
Speakers on stands take up just as much floor space as slim floorstanders, so why not take advantage of the extra box volume you could have? Well the answer might be that the optimum box volume for a given driver is actually quite small, and putting those same drivers in a bigger box gives you no advantage. Maybe
there is also one other area that can't be overlooked ........... room anomalies (acoustic). While it's true that most floor standers can outperform 'bookshelf' speakers in the lower octaves not all rooms are optimized for their bass drivers to be located there. A pair of stand mounted speakers properly paired with a sub or two (EQ'd and located) can easily 'do better'
darkblue94
The Devil made me do it.
DavidZak
Well-Known Member
Ultumax said He would not use Floorstanders without a Sub. He's entitled to his opinion like everyone else on this Forum. I use my TF600'S daily and enjoy them. They may not need a Sub but I prefer to relieve some of the low frequency duties from the amplifier/speakers and push more power to the mids and highs. Less stress on everything, cleaner sound plus Deep punching bass that the DCM's just can't produce. Some people just like Subwoofers. They have a lot of benefits.
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Yes, bookshelf speakers on stands can take up just as much room as some smaller floor-standing speakers, though in a couple of settings, I've been able to use bookcases or vinyl record storage units as the stands for my bookshelf speakers, so it truly did save on floor space.
Larger speakers with more drivers often haven't sounded as good to me as smaller, simpler speakers. Mark Wheeler once wrote for TNT Audio that the most sinful adulterers of timing are multi-way speakers (link below), citing the problems that even 2 drivers and a crossover can have. In my auditioning, I've found that two-way designs have some advantages over single driver models, and still get out of the way of the music for me better than three-way designs. I have enjoyed over the years EPI 100, Linn Index, Linn Sara, Vandersteen 1C (a floor-stander!), and Bose 301's and 201's. I've auditioned subwoofers a couple of times, but found them to also degrade the timing qualities of the music. The EPI's and the Linns were designed for against-the-wall placement, so they didn't take up much room; the Bose 201's can also go quite close to a wall, and even the 301's worked well just nine or ten inches out.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/prat_e.html