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Why can't they start again?

retro mustangs,camaros, challengers,broncos from the dealers......or build your own exact replica with even a brand new frame, courtesy of dynacorn, of a mustang, camaro, challenger ...with whatever level of engine, tranny, suspension and interior you want....from 60's stock to current modern.....
.....all it takes is money.....
 
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CraigVMN said:
...and now back to the topic at hand...

In 2020, is it really that hard to design, manufacturer and market a good performing turntable that doesn't cost big $$$?
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Yes, it is. What your dollar bought say in 1974, and what your dollar today buys you, are two different things. And designing it from scratch, engineering it, tooling up to build it for the smaller production numbers of today, increases cost considerably. What cost you $200 in 1974, costs you more like $800-$900 today given this. $200 today was something like $50 in 1974. Also bear in mind, turntables, tonearms, and cartridges which often then could be had at discount, today do not get discounted.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Yes, it is. What your dollar bought say in 1974, and what your dollar today buys you, are two different things. And designing it from scratch, engineering it, tooling up to build it for the smaller production numbers of today, increases cost considerably. What cost you $200 in 1974, costs you more like $800-$900 today given this. $200 today was something like $50 in 1974. Also bear in mind, turntables, tonearms, and cartridges which often then could be had at discount, today do not get discounted.
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Is it a matter of not enough demand to ramp up supply? A quick look on Amazon shows a number of TT's from Audio-Technica which look like decent quality.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Which models do you call decent quality? They sell several different models. Also, looks alone don't tell the whole story.
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Admittedly, I haven't touched a TT in a long time, but I thought AT were a good TT. Certainly there must be something good out there for under $400
 
hifitommy said:
pioneer has a $500 dd tt so that is reasonable. check it.
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PLX-500 & 1000. One is $349 and the other $699. They call both DJ tables, great for scratching. I know people loved those old Technics 1200 DJ tables. There is a new Technics 1200 but I think it's more money than these Pioneers are.
 
CraigVMN said:
Admittedly, I haven't touched a TT in a long time, but I thought AT were a good TT. Certainly there must be something good out there for under $400
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A quick look at Music Direct in Chicago shows 6 for under $400. Pro-Ject, Music Hall and NAD models
 
The newer Pioneer and AT (and a bunch of other names) 'tables are mostly made by Hanpin in China. They can be OK, but are know for QC issues. Some have high WOW and flutter. The older ones had poor or completely non-working anti-skate. They still have issues with loose tonearm bearings. Warped platters, etc.

I have a Hanpin-made Stanton 'table that I got for basically nothing. It had the pretty much non-working A/S disease. I ordered the new upgraded spring from AT to fix it.

Quality wise, they are nothing like the older Japanese made 'tables.
 
beat_truck said:
The newer Pioneer and AT (and a bunch of other names) 'tables are mostly made by Hanpin in China. They can be OK, but are know for QC issues. Some have high WOW and flutter. The older ones had poor or completely non-working anti-skate. They still have issues with loose tonearm bearings. Warped platters, etc.

I have a Hanpin-made Stanton 'table that I got for basically nothing. It had the pretty much non-working A/S disease. I ordered the new upgraded spring from AT to fix it.

Quality wise, they are nothing like the older Japanese made 'tables.
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This says it all. I see these exact same issues with many of these turntables when they come in to the workshop. Good thing is Audio-Technica does keep some semblance of spare parts available and they're excellent on support.
 
CraigVMN said:
Admittedly, I haven't touched a TT in a long time, but I thought AT were a good TT. Certainly there must be something good out there for under $400
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Nothing's available brand new for this price point which meets my standards for performance and reliability. And I also expect wow/flutter performance to at least meet the 1964 NAB standard expected for broadcast work at minimum.
 
Good article. There are some great bargains in new turntables out there. I recently purchased a Fluance RT81 for under $250 and a Crosley C6 for $120. This old engineer who also has some audiophile gear is amazed at the build quality and sound quality.
 
r_brumett61 said:
Good article. There are some great bargains in new turntables out there. I recently purchased a Fluance RT81 for under $250 and a Crosley C6 for $120. This old engineer who also has some audiophile gear is amazed at the build quality and sound quality.
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I haven't heard of Fluance TT's. The RT85 seems like it has pretty good features for $499
 
What surprises me is how little out-of-the-box thinking there is.

You've got a lot of manufacturers trying, implicitly or explicitly, to build or rebadge a SL-1200 clone.

You've got the low-end firms taking the same crappy mechanisms and putting it in different cute boxes.

Then you've got the places selling turntables catering to an audiophile snob mentality "It must be belt-drive and totally manual; full auto is for plebs."

I'd wonder what a completely clean-slate design would look like for a 2020 turntable with a $299 MSRP. I suspect it would look a lot more like a late Technics "close and play" linear tracker than a SL-1200, TBF.

Considering we have 40 years of tech development since "Quartz Lock" was the big thing, surely we have some more sophisticated means to monitor and regulate motor speed. I bet there's loads of useful precedent in the hard disc industry, which has to sell a $50 mechanism that maintains 5400 rpm precisely.

A hands-off linear tracker design reduces the amount of time the tonearm is getting handled, hopefully reducing customer complaints when it gets misaligned or damaged.

Adding $5 to the BOM could provide a powerful microcontroller and an array of sensors, making stuff like auto track detection, or even stuff like detecting skipping or tonearm sticking, fairly cheap. I could even imagine some sort of dynamic adjustment of antiskate or tonearm weight based on tracking on the fly. This could be where market segmentation really happens. Sell the same basic turntable at $299, $699, and $1299 to keep economies of scale high, and unlock more features in firmware.

I wonder if part of it is just that you have 200 companies each trying for a slice of the pie. Nobody commands enough market share to justify the up-front costs of tooling and development. Even Technics, whose name carries enough weight to add credibility to any new product, is primarily focusing on an incremental products that they know they can sell via nostalgia. In that case, the market makes more sense: the full-manual belt drive is the cheapest thing to make from scratch and requires no innovation. The SL-1200 clone is just buying an already amortized design from Hanpin or the like. Crosley already paid for their tooling.
 
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