Why do my Near 10m speakers sound like a small table radio ?

[bob412]

Can someone help me trouble shoot what is wrong with the sound coming from these speakers . They sound completely out of phase and the bass is non existent . I thought I had them wired up wrong to the amp but that was not the case . I then decided to wire them out of phase and it got even worse , so I rewired them back in phase . I'm beginning to think that there's something going on with the woofers in both speakers . The tweeters work as they should but the woofers sound like no low notes are coming from them at all . Sound is coming from the woofers but its not bass at all . Can someone chime in on what you think is going on with these speakers . Comments appreciated , Thanks !

 

[absolve2525]

Can someone help me trouble shoot what is wrong with the sound coming from these speakers . They sound completely out of phase and the bass is non existent . I thought I had them wired up wrong to the amp but that was not the case . I then decided to wire them out of phase and it got even worse , so I rewired them back in phase . I'm beginning to think that there's something going on with the woofers in both speakers . The tweeters work as they should but the woofers sound like no low notes are coming from them at all . Sound is coming from the woofers but its not bass at all . Can someone chime in on what you think is going on with these speakers . Comments appreciated , Thanks !

Wow, I have a set of 10M (actually 3) and they sound amazing with lots of bass. I did have an issue where I needed to replace the rubber surround and add ferrofluid to the magnet gap on one speaker. Can you pull out the woofer and post some pics, of the crossovers also? Do the woofers move freely? Are they sunken or do they move back to normal resting position when not playing music? Are you the original owner? Helps to know their history. Did they work properly before?

 

[bob412]

Wow, I have a set of 10M (actually 3) and they sound amazing with lots of bass. I did have an issue where I needed to replace the rubber surround and add ferrofluid to the magnet gap on one speaker. Can you pull out the woofer and post some pics, of the crossovers also? Do the woofers move freely? Are they sunken or do they move back to normal resting position when not playing music? Are you the original owner? Helps to know their history. Did they work properly before?

I'm not the original owner . I got them from a local good will store $10 for the pair . I'll get photos up tomorrow . I did push the woofers in on both speakers and they do not return to their original position quick at all , it takes a while maybe a few minutes to return to original position . I have a few photos , more to come tomorrow . I believe the original owner tweaked around in the speakers because all the drivers are soldered to connection wire instead of clip connections .

 

[absolve2525]

I'm not the original owner . I got them from a local good will store $10 for the pair . I'll get photos up tomorrow . I did push the woofers in on both speakers and they do not return to their original position quick at all , it takes a while maybe a few minutes to return to original position . I have a few photos , more to come tomorrow . I believe the original owner tweaked around in the speakers because all the drivers are soldered to connection wire instead of clip connections .

If you look into magnet/coil gap inside, is there wet ferrofluid keeping the coil "afloat" so that it will move inward and outward the same amount? Some well-lit pics of the front and the surrounds might be helpful also. Any videos of you pushing the cone and letting it return to its resting position would be also be helpful. The woofer terminals were soldered on at the factory. Mine are the same way. It's a better connection and it takes time and effort to do that. These are very unique and special sounding speakers when working properly. I'm guessing yours may need new ferrofluid added, or new surrounds, or both, but I can't tell for sure from just these pics. If the previous owner abused them by overdriving, then coils may be fried. That could feel like a scraping or crunchy sound with woofers stuck and not moving fully. The fluid is what suspends the woofers in these speakers, there is no spider suspension. The fluid and rubber surround are very important and can be refilled/replaced.

 

[bob412]

If you look into magnet/coil gap inside, is there wet ferrofluid keeping the coil "afloat" so that it will move inward and outward the same amount? Some well-lit pics of the front and the surrounds might be helpful also. Any videos of you pushing the cone and letting it return to its resting position would be also be helpful. The woofer terminals were soldered on at the factory. Mine are the same way. It's a better connection and it takes time and effort to do that. These are very unique and special sounding speakers when working properly. I'm guessing yours may need new ferrofluid added, or new surrounds, or both, but I can't tell for sure from just these pics. If the previous owner abused them by overdriving, then coils may be fried. That could feel like a scraping or crunchy sound with woofers stuck and not moving fully. The fluid is what suspends the woofers in these speakers, there is no spider suspension. The fluid and rubber surround are very important and can be refilled/replaced.

Here are a few more pictures . I also took shots of the crossover network . I wonder if they're wired wrong ? Back to the woofers , the impedance measures 4.1 ohms with the driver disconnected . I put my pinky finger in the hole in the woofer magnet and it was kinda oily , very light . When I press the woofers in there's definitely non of the light resistance that the ferrofluid should provide .

This is a strange speaker to me . I've never had a woofer that required ferrofluid and wouldn't know how to apply it . Anyway take a look at the photos that I sent . Let me know if this is the original crossover network and if the connections are correct . I get a feeling that the original owner fooled around in there .

 

[bob412]

I don't believe the woofers are blown . I notice no scraping sound when I pushed the woofers in .

 

[absolve2525]

I don't believe the woofers are blown . I notice no scraping sound when I pushed the woofers in .

Your woofers are different than mine, in that yours have dust caps while mine don't. I've seen both styles of drivers listed on Ebay for these speakers, though. They should be basically the same, from what I can tell. You can get large size vials of fluid from Parts Express or ebay. I used Parts Express. There are different ferrofluid specifications, and a member on here posted the exact type of fluid these speakers originally used. I just squeezed some of the parts express version into the magnet gap and it worked fine. There's lots of messages on here about the fluid and how to apply it. From what I can tell, the woofers look okay. I don't see any collapsed or worn rubber surround issues. They don't look like they're sunk into the magnet. Maybe some added fluid would help. I don't have mine here to open up, but I can check to see if my crossovers are the same in a few days. Did you try some bass eq? I don't think they're very efficient, so a beefy amp would probably help the bass.

 

[bob412]

Your woofers are different than mine, in that yours have dust caps while mine don't. I've seen both styles of drivers listed on Ebay for these speakers, though. They should be basically the same, from what I can tell. You can get large size vials of fluid from Parts Express or ebay. I used Parts Express. There are different ferrofluid specifications, and a member on here posted the exact type of fluid these speakers originally used. I just squeezed some of the parts express version into the magnet gap and it worked fine. There's lots of messages on here about the fluid and how to apply it. From what I can tell, the woofers look okay. I don't see any collapsed or worn rubber surround issues. They don't look like they're sunk into the magnet. Maybe some added fluid would help. I don't have mine here to open up, but I can check to see if my crossovers are the same in a few days. Did you try some bass eq? I don't think they're very efficient, so a beefy amp would probably help the bass.

I played a few low bass test tones on a CD I have . I can get strong bass tones down to 45 hz in this small room ( 12x12 ft , 8 ft ceiling ) from the speakers . My receiver is a 30 watt vintage Nikko NR-30 . The speakers will play bass tones but as soon as music is played they go back to sounding like a table top radio .

Did your speakers sound like what I'm describing was the reason you added the ferrofluid ?
I was looking online for a crossover schematic but nothing is found .

 

[absolve2525]

Hmm, sounds like the woofers are okay if you're getting bass like that. I had one woofer where the cone was sunken into the magnet gap and the rubber surround had collapsed. I repaired it using the method I described. I didn't really listen to it since I had two other working speakers. This was from a home theater, and the seller mentioned the one speaker would need repairs. I imagine it would not have had much bass at all, and would bottom out easily. It doesn't seem like your woofers have that issue. He had two larger 15M, which I picked up as package deal. I will get back to you with pics of my crossovers. Maybe the tweeters need new fluid? I have yet to do anything with mine, since they sound fine.

 

[absolve2525]

I played a few low bass test tones on a CD I have . I can get strong bass tones down to 45 hz in this small room ( 12x12 ft , 8 ft ceiling ) from the speakers . My receiver is a 30 watt vintage Nikko NR-30 . The speakers will play bass tones but as soon as music is played they go back to sounding like a table top radio .

Did your speakers sound like what I'm describing was the reason you added the ferrofluid ?
I was looking online for a crossover schematic but nothing is found .

I found a couple pics of crossovers from when I had to remove the woofers. I had to unsolder the two wires and took pics so I could remember their position. Left is how they came, right is with wires taken off to work on. I marked x above that silver solder point for the positive woofer wire.

 

[absolve2525]

I found a couple pics of crossovers from when I had to remove the woofers. I had to unsolder the two wires and took pics so I could remember their position. Left is how they came, right is with wires taken off to work on. I marked x above that silver solder point for the positive woofer wire.

Hmm, sounds like the woofers are okay if you're getting bass like that. I had one woofer where the cone was sunken into the magnet gap and the rubber surround had collapsed. I repaired it using the method I described. I didn't really listen to it since I had two other working speakers. This was from a home theater, and the seller mentioned the one speaker would need repairs. I imagine it would not have had much bass at all, and would bottom out easily. It doesn't seem like your woofers have that issue. He had two larger 15M, which I picked up as package deal. I will get back to you with pics of my crossovers. Maybe the tweeters need new fluid? I have yet to do anything with mine, since they sound fine.

Hmmm, comparing the two pics, your tweeter wire is not in the same position as mine. I don't see where it's exactly attached in my photo. I can open and check and get back with you in a day or two.

 

[absolve2525]

I played a few low bass test tones on a CD I have . I can get strong bass tones down to 45 hz in this small room ( 12x12 ft , 8 ft ceiling ) from the speakers . My receiver is a 30 watt vintage Nikko NR-30 . The speakers will play bass tones but as soon as music is played they go back to sounding like a table top radio .

Did your speakers sound like what I'm describing was the reason you added the ferrofluid ?
I was looking online for a crossover schematic but nothing is found .

I took some new pics of front and back of crossover.

 

[bob412]

I took some new pics of front and back of crossover.

Thanks for your help and especially taking the time to post photos .

 

[Beobloke]

Deleted...

 

[absolve2525]

Any luck with your crossover inspections/comparisons? It looks to be missing the large value cap compared to mine. Not sure if it's just a different design since your woofer is different though.

Thanks for your help and especially taking the time to post photos .

 

[bob412]

Any luck with your crossover inspections/comparisons? It looks to be missing the large value cap compared to mine. Not sure if it's just a different design since your woofer is different though.

I sold the speakers . There was just too many issues with them for me . The cabinets are in very good condition . The tweeters work great , its just those woofers and the crossover network that made me get rid of them . It's like someone monkeyed around inside tweaking the system and put thing back wrong . Sloppy soldering points everywhere and things wired up wrong . Sold them to a guy across town for $25 on a local bulletin .

 

[absolve2525]

N

I sold the speakers . There was just too many issues with them for me . The cabinets are in very good condition . The tweeters work great , its just those woofers and the crossover network that made me get rid of them . It's like someone monkeyed around inside tweaking the system and put thing back wrong . Sloppy soldering points everywhere and things wired up wrong . Sold them to a guy across town for $25 on a local bulletin .

No worries! Hey, you doubled your money.

 

[Dave1027]

Even though it's now a moot point, I think two possibilities. One, previous owner blew the original woofers and replaced them with cheap woofers that did not match up well with the crossovers/cabinets. 2nd possibility, hopefully not the case, there is something wrong with your receiver or source.

 

[bob412]

N No worries! Hey, you doubled your money.

Thanks for taking the time to post photos and help with my situation . You're a good GUY !