• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Why does my dinky receiver have better bass than my power amp?

js bach

js bach

Active Member
I tried several listening trials... both with two different preamps to compare to my receiver; and the same result: the bass extension and impact is much more apparent in the receiver... a Denon DRA-625. The power amp is a Parasound HCA-1200 and the preamp is a Kenwood C1. The other preamp tried to rule out any preamp issues is the DRA-625 as preamp. Is there a problem with the amp not putting out enough bass? Is it just the nature of the amp?
 
Register to hide this ad
js bach said:
I tried several listening trials... both with two different preamps to compare to my receiver; and the same result: the bass extension and impact is much more apparent in the receiver... a Denon DRA-625. The power amp is a Parasound HCA-1200 and the preamp is a Kenwood C1. The other preamp tried to rule out any preamp issues is the DRA-625 as preamp. Is there a problem with the amp not putting out enough bass? Is it just the nature of the amp?
Click to expand...

My BPC Dra-xxx also puts tons of bass. I just can't bear it! (I even forgot model number)
 
Ok, I checked mine, it's DRA-545R. I have a little earlier PMA-860 which is more audiophile stuff.
 
You may have stumbled on to the reason so many people liked those Denons.

At 75 (or is it 85?) watts per channel I certainly wouldn't call it "dinky".
The original $550 MSRP back in 1988 translates to over $1K today....
 
Your receiver is a formidable one. It is by no means dinky. It is apparently stable down to 2 ohm loads. That implies a very low output impedance. This alone can mean better control of the woofer, seeming to improve the bass transient response. Also, does the receiver have a Loudness control. I know the DRA-635 does. If you do have one and it is turned on, or if variable, turned to increase the "loudness" it is in actuality increasing the bass.

Shelly_D
 
My daughter has a DRA-835 (100wpc) and it is an unbelieveably great sounding (better them my 125wpc Marantz 2325 to be honest) receiver.
 
shelly_d said:
Your receiver is a formidable one. It is by no means dinky. It is apparently stable down to 2 ohm loads. That implies a very low output impedance. This alone can mean better control of the woofer, seeming to improve the bass transient response. Also, does the receiver have a Loudness control. I know the DRA-635 does. If you do have one and it is turned on, or if variable, turned to increase the "loudness" it is in actuality increasing the bass.

Shelly_D
Click to expand...


No, the variable loudness control is flat and all tone controls are flat too. I guess I shouldn't have used the word "dinky." I just figured when I got the Parasound amp it would have "blown me away" but it appears as though I may have to re-think this. A local audio buddy has a Luxman R-117 for sale. I wonder how that compares to the Denon receivers?
 
I have R-117 too, it doesn't produce that much bass as my DRA-545R. As I said, the DRA bass is too much. (I have Denon POA-2200 power amp and had earlier DRA-700, they don't sound like BPC DRA either.) If you really like bass, big DRA at same period is your choice.
 
meewoo said:
I have R-117 too, it doesn't produce that much bass as my DRA-545R. As I said, the DRA bass is too much. (I have Denon POA-2200 power amp and had earlier DRA-700, they don't sound like BPC DRA either.) If you really like bass, big DRA at same period is your choice.
Click to expand...



So I guess then there's nothing wrong with my power amp--it's just the way it is. I'm running Mirage M3si speakers and they can put out the bass--but in a controlled way--not boomy like bass reflex speakers. they just seem to sound better on the DRA receiver. I did research some of the DRA receivers, as well as some of the PMA stuff too. Do you know what models sound the best and which to avoid? I've read that the DRA 1025, 1035 receivers are nice. I've also read that the PMA-900v, 700v are good too. I assume with with the speakers I am driving, I should have something north of 100wpc?

It is interesting though... the Mirage's can really put out some sound--and the DRA is only at 9 o'clock on the dial
 
js bach said:
A local audio buddy has a Luxman R-117 for sale. I wonder how that compares to the Denon receivers?
Click to expand...

Had a Denon (can't remember model) way back in the late 80's earlier 90's, I recall liking it quite a bit. I had a Luxman R-115 (slightly little bro to R-117) and wished I still had it. If you wind up getting the R-117 I don't think you'll be disappointed.
 
I'm currently running the Denon DRA-835r in my bedroom into a set of Advent /1 speakers. The bass response is very pleasing. I'm not familiar with parasound gear, but if the Denon sounds better to your ears, why not stick with it?
 
j31088 said:
Try a different preamp with more voltage to the Parasound, been through it before.
Click to expand...


What specifically should I look for on a spec sheet? Is it input impedence? Output voltage? I'm not too familiar with this tech stuff. Here are the specs on the Parasound amp and Kenwood preamp. What am I looking for?


HCA-1200 Specifications:
Continuous Power output : 200 watts RMS x 2 @ 8 ohms, 300 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms
Continuous Power output (Mono) 600 watts RMS @ 8 ohms
Current Capacity: 40 amperes continuous, 57 amperes peak
Slew Rate: 100V/msecond
Frequency response: 8Hz-90kHz, +0/-3dB
Total Harmonic Distortion: < 0.08% at full power< 0.03% typical levels
TIM: Unmeasurable
IM distortion: < 0.1%
Dynamic Headroom: > 1.5dB
Input impedance: 30 kW
S/N ratio: >110dB, input shorted, IHF A weighted
Damping factor: Over 120 at 20Hz
Dimensions: 17 1/4" wide x 5 1/2" high x 12" deep; 19" wide using RMK-1000 rack mount
Weight: 38 lbs.


Kenwood Basic C1 Preamp Specifications:
Input sensitivity: 0.25mV (mc), 2.5mV (mm), 150mV (line)
Signal to noise ratio: 70dB (mc), 87dB (mm), 108dB (line)
Frequency response: 1Hz to 250kHz (line)
Subsonic filter: 18Hz, 6dB octave
Total harmonic distortion: 0.004%
Load impedance: 47K ohms
 
js bach said:
So I guess then there's nothing wrong with my power amp--it's just the way it is. I'm running Mirage M3si speakers and they can put out the bass--but in a controlled way--not boomy like bass reflex speakers. they just seem to sound better on the DRA receiver. I did research some of the DRA receivers, as well as some of the PMA stuff too. Do you know what models sound the best and which to avoid? I've read that the DRA 1025, 1035 receivers are nice. I've also read that the PMA-900v, 700v are good too. I assume with with the speakers I am driving, I should have something north of 100wpc?

It is interesting though... the Mirage's can really put out some sound--and the DRA is only at 9 o'clock on the dial
Click to expand...


Sorry, I don't know any info about Denon around that period. One thought though, it maybe the Denon pre put that bass since my Poa doesn't sound too much bass with other pre. (I don't have Denon pre to test)
And I agree with other members here, Dra bass is well controlled. It's just too punchy that my heart feels pain when bass kicks in. But I like my POA-2200 and PMA-770 very much, high quality stuff!
 
shelly_d said:
Your receiver is a formidable one. It is by no means dinky. It is apparently stable down to 2 ohm loads. That implies a very low output impedance. This alone can mean better control of the woofer, seeming to improve the bass transient response. Also, does the receiver have a Loudness control. I know the DRA-635 does. If you do have one and it is turned on, or if variable, turned to increase the "loudness" it is in actuality increasing the bass.

Shelly_D
Click to expand...

I just ordered both DRA 545R / 60 WPC & 635R/ 80 WPC going to compare & keep the one that sounds best....looks like they are both from the early 90s....going to hook them up to my vintage Paradigm Monitor 3 speakers....any predictions?
 
Naptown Rob said:
You may have stumbled on to the reason so many people liked those Denons.

At 75 (or is it 85?) watts per channel I certainly wouldn't call it "dinky".
The original $550 MSRP back in 1988 translates to over $1K today....
Click to expand...

Agreed...another reminder of the engineering & under rating WPC that was happening back in early days ...I have a Sansui G5500 reciever from 1978 which is amazing like the AU517 both rated @60 WPC but sounds more like 100....anyways this little Denon from 1991 also rated @60 WPC sounds excellent too for a newer unit & far less money & a nice remote also...great digital tuner ....Im guessing the DRA 635 R should also be another sleeper...does anybody know?
 
Fomoco1649 said:
Agreed...another reminder of the engineering & under rating WPC that was happening back in early days ...I have a Sansui G5500 reciever from 1978 which is amazing like the AU517 both rated @60 WPC but sounds more like 100....anyways this little Denon from 1991 also rated @60 WPC sounds excellent too for a newer unit & far less money & a nice remote also...great digital tuner ....Im guessing the DRA 635 R should also be another sleeper...does anybody know?
Click to expand...

Curious as to what it is about the receiver that sounds like 100 watts vs 60 watts? Unless noticeably clipping, I can't imagine how one would readily differentiate the output rating of one amp vs another by listening to them?
 
Fomoco1649 said:
.....Im guessing the DRA 635 R should also be another sleeper...does anybody know?
Click to expand...

@Fomoco1649

As of this morning in another thread you've already ascertained that indeed it is a "Sleeper" as well as yesterday in another thread

Fomoco1649 said:
..545R / 635R ..super clean units with original remotes...awesome little sleepers ....sound amazing with my vintage Paradium monitor 3 speakers....
Click to expand...

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...ng-denon-dra-635r.209154/page-3#post-16264048

Fomoco1649 said:
Agreed....I have a 1991 DRA 635R / 80 WPC and 1992 DRA 545R./ 60 WPC ...amazing sleepers
Click to expand...

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/denons-stereo-house-sound-80’s-90’s-the-design-teams-and-the-gear.589716/#post-16263642

Why do you need others opinions to validate what your ears are already telling you?
 
Last edited:
spark1 said:
Curious as to what it is about the receiver that sounds like 100 watts vs 60 watts? Unless noticeably clipping, I can't imagine how one would readily differentiate the output rating of one amp vs another by listening to them?
Click to expand...

That's a great question...and I stand corrected.....just my perception & opinion based on my experiences & comparisons....Ive been hooked & Impressed on my Sansui & JBL system for years 60 WPC amazing power & detail...but this smaller Denon from 1991 / 60 WPC also ....sounds great but definately in a different league, for more than half the price....thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom