Why does my forty year old NAD sound better (to me Ears) than a newer (ten year old) NAD ? Amps in general ?

[SixCats!]

Hi all,

Please help me understand, what is it in the design that makes me prefer the overall sound of my forty year old NAD Amps (a Classic 3140 Integrated and 7130 NAD Receiver ? Both Amps are circa mid 1980's.

Sadly, just yesterday, my old (Salvation Army find) Classic NAD 3140 Integrated Amp (which I purchased some twenty years ago) has grown tired and is having issues.
I replaced the 3140 from my system and installed a newer (perhaps ten old) NAD C326BEE Integrated Amp.

While the C326BEE sounds clean and is pleasant enough,
I feel "something" is missing in the overall music presentation (so much so) that I have (once again) removed the C326BEE for (this time) an old NAD (7130) Receiver.
I am finding that I much prefer the sound/presentation of the old 7130 Receiver.

I mean, what gives ? Why ? How ? I ask these questions because, I plan to purchase a more serious NEW (Higher End) Integrated Amp in the future (be it Solid State or Tube)
and I'm just trying to understand the reason(s) why the likes of the C326BEE (while not a bad sounding per se) is leaving me feeling unsatisfied vs. the older NAD Amps having
seemingly have a more rich/full body sound/presentation. Note that both the older NAD Amps are 30 and 40 Watts vs. the newer C326BEE 50 Watts.

I realize it is very difficult to convey in words the sonic differences I'm hearing. At any rate, any help/explanations/suggestions regarding differences in Amp sound (in general)
would be GREATLY appreciated. I really want to make an informed decision for a future new Amp purchase. Thank you.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

 

[opnly bafld]

Speakers?

 

[SixCats!]

Speakers?

Hi opnly bafld,

I have been listening a LOT (a very recently acquired pair) of circa late 1980's (TOTL) English two-way Mission 780 "Argonaut" 4 Ohm Speakers. opnly bafld, I am LOVING the "Argonauts". I swear, even this forty'ish year old NAD 7130 Receiver sounds WONDERFUL on the "Argonauts".

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

 

[opnly bafld]

Have you compared the NADs on other speakers?

 

[Buck Rogers]

Had the same experience.

Owned 6 different Nikko Beta preamps.

Beta I, II, 20, 30, 40 and 50.

Beta I is easily the best sounding, Each model gets progressively more complicated and lower in construction quality and sound quality.

Check out the internals of the Beta I, Wowzer!

Two FET's in the lower left are the phono preamp, Burned my finger the first time I thought.

Heatsink on a phono preamp Q? Wonder if it gets hot.... Yeow~~~~!

Also, Inverting tone controls... wtf?

 

[jayvis]

I think it's because of what your ears and brain have been trained to hear and perceive over a long period of time. It's probably not that the newer stuff sounds wrong, but just different than what you were accustomed to. It can sometimes take quite a while to retrain yourself and there's no guarantee that you'll ever start to think it sounds right to you. If you're exploring new amps, I suggest that you go to as many audio dealers as you can and listen to different makes (other than NAD) with different power levels and with some modern speakers. Most of the newer audio components have gravitated to higher transparency, which has been driven by demand from the majority of consumers. Also keep in mind that every component including speakers in your system need to be good matches to achieve the sound you prefer. It can be a real ear opener for some while others will continue to prefer the familiar sights and sounds of the past. I moved on from vintage audio long ago and enjoy the advantage of being able to try new components in my system for a few months and returning them for refund if they don't work out. It's much more convenient to me than taking shots in the dark with old used stuff.

 

[jefferylhenr]

You like to hear distortion which some describe as “warm” sounding…

 

[fredgarvin]

The NAD 3140 was an acclaimed amp, it had a powerful power supply, actually two, and was known for sounding bigger than other amps with higher rated power. Also, it was typical of what people called the NAD sound, tilted slightly dark, A warmish top end, a bit rolled off and I would guess the newer NAD has moved farther toward neutral.

 

[SixCats!]

Have you compared the NADs on other speakers?

Hi ob, I have indeed. I just the other day found a VERY nice condition pair of KEF Q1's (of all places) at a "Yard Sale". I still feel the same way about the sound/performance using the older NAD Amps vs. the (newer/new'ish) NAD C326BEE. Both not bad mind you, just......different.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

 

[SixCats!]

Had the same experience.

Owned 6 different Nikko Beta preamps.

Beta I, II, 20, 30, 40 and 50.

Beta I is easily the best sounding, Each model gets progressively more complicated and lower in construction quality and sound quality.

Check out the internals of the Beta I, Wowzer!

Two FET's in the lower left are the phono preamp, Burned my finger the first time I thought.

Heatsink on a phono preamp Q? Wonder if it gets hot.... Yeow~~~~!

Also, Inverting tone controls... wtf?

Ooh, I so agree with you Buck that it certainly appears (along the way/years) too many Amps have become cheaper (quality and performance wise). This is in part the reason I've held off for soooo long considering moving up to a "Higher End" Amp. This is to say, I am thinking I would REALLY need to make a BIG jump up (in price) for a new Amp to truly see/hear/feel the difference.

I think most all the newer Integrated Amps (at a certain budget price level) basically share the same overall quality with (I suspect) just slightly different colorations.
I dunno, what do I know ? At any rate, I'm thinking I have to consider moving up into the likes of (at least) Audia Flight, Unison, Gold Note, perhaps Exposure etc. (entry level) units to really hear a difference. This is to say (and I could be wrong) that today's NAD/Cambridge Audio/Rotel/Rega/Music Fidelity is (possibly) a (more or less) lateral move.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

 

[SixCats!]

I think it's because of what your ears and brain have been trained to hear and perceive over a long period of time. It's probably not that the newer stuff sounds wrong, but just different than what you were accustomed to. It can sometimes take quite a while to retrain yourself and there's no guarantee that you'll ever start to think it sounds right to you. If you're exploring new amps, I suggest that you go to as many audio dealers as you can and listen to different makes (other than NAD) with different power levels and with some modern speakers. Most of the newer audio components have gravitated to higher transparency, which has been driven by demand from the majority of consumers. Also keep in mind that every component including speakers in your system need to be good matches to achieve the sound you prefer. It can be a real ear opener for some while others will continue to prefer the familiar sights and sounds of the past. I moved on from vintage audio long ago and enjoy the advantage of being able to try new components in my system for a few months and returning them for refund if they don't work out. It's much more convenient to me than taking shots in the dark with old used stuff.

Hi jayvis,

Thank you for your insightful/informative response to my inquiry. My being an Audio Hobbyist for over fifty years, I've owned a LOT of different gear both Solid State and Tube. I 100% agree with you jayvis (and have considered the Brain/Ear connection).

In part, I don't doubt this effects plays a big role. Perhaps playing a big part as well is my having recently acquired/listening to soooooo many (new to me Speakers) which I suspect is no doubt messing with my Head. Over the last several weeks, I recently acquired a pair of JBL L-100 Century Monitors (with a recently acquired Marantz 2285B Receiver) a pair of vintage KNIGHT 2390's, a lovely pair of English Mission 780 "Argonaut" Speakers.

Two days ago, I found (at a "Yard Sale of all places) a near pristine condition pair of KEF Q1 Concentric Driver Bookshelf Speakers and (believe it or not) only hours ago, I found and purchased a VERY nice condition pair of KLIPSCH Kg2's (with the Passive Radiator). I am now playing the Kg2's using the NAD 7130 Receiver and the Kg2's are sounding better and better as it plays/warms up (spinning Andres Segovia). So, yep, it's all about synergy.

Ooh, in addition to the aforementioned (new to me) Speakers, most of my listening (for the last five years) has been listening using my vintage/Classic English EMI 529 DLS (4 Ohm) Speakers (exclusively) using my vintage FISHER 400 Tube Amp/Receiver. I very much love this combo. In addition, I listen weekly using my big Stephens Tru-Sonic (E-3 type) Mono Horn (using a custom 2A3 SET Amp) with lovely results. LOL, so yea, I guess this does make me an "Old Timer" Vintage in the Brain sort of guy.

I pretty much seem to lean towards the sound of "Tubes". One day soon, I will purge 95% of my vintage gear and (as you mentioned) move on to NEW (Higher End) gear (simple no frills gear but, Higher End). Perhaps something along the line of Unison "Simply Italy" Tube Amp and speaker wise.....Omega or such. It would be NICE to own some NEW gear. Thanks jay.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

 

[jayvis]

Hi jayvis,

Thank you for your insightful/informative response to my inquiry. My being an Audio Hobbyist for over fifty years, I've owned a LOT of different gear both Solid State and Tube. I 100% agree with you jayvis (and have considered the Brain/Ear connection).

In part, I don't doubt this effects plays a big role. Perhaps playing a big part as well is my having recently acquired/listening to soooooo many (new to me Speakers) which I suspect is no doubt messing with my Head. Over the last several weeks, I recently acquired a pair of JBL L-100 Century Monitors (with a recently acquired Marantz 2285B Receiver) a pair of vintage KNIGHT 2390's, a lovely pair of English Mission 780 "Argonaut" Speakers.

Two days ago, I found (at a "Yard Sale of all places) a near pristine condition pair of KEF Q1 Concentric Driver Bookshelf Speakers and (believe it or not) only hours ago, I found and purchased a VERY nice condition pair of KLIPSCH Kg2's (with the Passive Radiator). I am now playing the Kg2's using the NAD 7130 Receiver and the Kg2's are sounding better and better as it plays/warms up (spinning Andres Segovia). So, yep, it's all about synergy.

Ooh, in addition to the aforementioned (new to me) Speakers, most of my listening (for the last five years) has been listening using my vintage/Classic English EMI 529 DLS (4 Ohm) Speakers (exclusively) using my vintage FISHER 400 Tube Amp/Receiver. I very much love this combo. In addition, I listen weekly using my big Stephens Tru-Sonic (E-3 type) Mono Horn (using a custom 2A3 SET Amp) with lovely results. LOL, so yea, I guess this does make me an "Old Timer" Vintage in the Brain sort of guy.

I pretty much seem to lean towards the sound of "Tubes". One day soon, I will purge 95% of my vintage gear and (as you mentioned) move on to NEW (Higher End) gear (simple no frills gear but, Higher End). Perhaps something along the line of Unison "Simply Italy" Tube Amp and speaker wise.....Omega or such. It would be NICE to own some NEW gear. Thanks jay.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

Well, you've acquired a lot of options to experiment and take your time with. Hopefully, you'll be able to find the right combinations out of it to hold you over for a while.

 

[hopeless]

Hi all,

Please help me understand, what is it in the design that makes me prefer the overall sound of my forty year old NAD Amps (a Classic 3140 Integrated and 7130 NAD Receiver ? Both Amps are circa mid 1980's.

Sadly, just yesterday, my old (Salvation Army find) Classic NAD 3140 Integrated Amp (which I purchased some twenty years ago) has grown tired and is having issues.
I replaced the 3140 from my system and installed a newer (perhaps ten old) NAD C326BEE Integrated Amp.

While the C326BEE sounds clean and is pleasant enough,
I feel "something" is missing in the overall music presentation (so much so) that I have (once again) removed the C326BEE for (this time) an old NAD (7130) Receiver.
I am finding that I much prefer the sound/presentation of the old 7130 Receiver.

I mean, what gives ? Why ? How ? I ask these questions because, I plan to purchase a more serious NEW (Higher End) Integrated Amp in the future (be it Solid State or Tube)
and I'm just trying to understand the reason(s) why the likes of the C326BEE (while not a bad sounding per se) is leaving me feeling unsatisfied vs. the older NAD Amps having
seemingly have a more rich/full body sound/presentation. Note that both the older NAD Amps are 30 and 40 Watts vs. the newer C326BEE 50 Watts.

I realize it is very difficult to convey in words the sonic differences I'm hearing. At any rate, any help/explanations/suggestions regarding differences in Amp sound (in general)
would be GREATLY appreciated. I really want to make an informed decision for a future new Amp purchase. Thank you.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

Because they were built better

 

[Pilot]

My 39 year old NAD 2200 had a sound - not a particularly good one - until I applied all the mods (search this forum if you're interested). Now it is clean and transparent and will blow most 100W amps away. A case of excellent design spoilt by crummy components.

 

[jayvis]

Because they were built better

 

[Capitol C]

Not to get everyone mad at me, but the only way to resolve this is to get the old unit working and do double-blind ABX testing. Everything else is speculation.

 

[fredgarvin]

But first you need to buy a new truck to transport the units in and but be sure to do it with a blindfold.

 

[SixCats!]

UPDATE!

I swear, shortly after I posted this Thread, my beloved forty year old Classic NAD 3140 Integrated Amp has given up the Ghost! Ugggh.

I don't know for sure but, perhaps (maybe) this forty year old NAD Amp running my (new to me) 4 Ohm Speakers (possibility ?) accelerated it's demise ?

I powered on the Amp yesterday morning and one of the Channels immediately began making serious noises (not good!) I quickly shut off the Amp and

removed it from the System (Mission 4 Ohm Argonaut 780 Speakers). So, while I'm saddened by this event, I can't really complain since I purchased this NAD Amp

(which was used and already older) twenty years ago from a Salvation Army Thrift Shop for twenty dollars. I think I more than got my money's worth from

this old NAD Amp. The Amp owes me nothing. I'm thinking this Amp (being so old) is most likely not worth the cost to have repaired (I dunno).

At any rate, I replaced the old NAD with a (less old) NAD Amp, the NAD C326BEE. That being said, I keep the C326BEE set up for a day (then switched out Amp again) as

I felt there was "something" missing in the Music. Mind you, the C326BEE does NOT sound bad, it just has a different sounding/presentation than what I am use to perhaps.

So, I swapped the C326BEE for yet another (forty'ish) year old NAD, this time a NAD 7130 Receiver (which I purchased a year ago) from a Thrift Shop for twenty dollars.

Yep, you guessed it, I PREFER the forty year old NAD 7130 Receiver's sound (30 Watt per channel) over the (circa 2010-2015) NAD C326BEE (50 Watt per channel Amp).

This all being said, I planto purchase a NEW "High End" Integrated Amp in the near future. Which Amp ? I do not know. The search/research continues.

I have not purchased a new Audio item (save an Onkyo CD Player) in over two decades. I figure now's the time to find a new Amp, a serious "Purist Amp".

An Amp that must be able/designed to handle 4 Ohm Speakers. An Amp that is a "NO frills" Amp. I want NO Streaming/DAC/No Phono stage/NO remote control/NO Bells

& Whistles etc. I need only a couple/few inputs. Heck, I really don't even need Tone Controls. I'm thinking all these extra features degrades the signal/sound/performance.

I also do not need too powerful an Amp as I seldom listen to Music at loud volumes. In fact, I mostly listen to Music using lower (to modest loud) volumes.

Sorry to ramble. R.I.P. My Classic NAD 3140 Integrated Amp, you have served me well. Thank you.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

 

[jayvis]

UPDATE!

I swear, shortly after I posted this Thread, my beloved forty year old Classic NAD 3140 Integrated Amp has given up the Ghost! Ugggh.

I don't know for sure but, perhaps (maybe) this forty year old NAD Amp running my (new to me) 4 Ohm Speakers (possibility ?) accelerated it's demise ?

I powered on the Amp yesterday morning and one of the Channels immediately began making serious noises (not good!) I quickly shut off the Amp and

removed it from the System (Mission 4 Ohm Argonaut 780 Speakers). So, while I'm saddened by this event, I can't really complain since I purchased this NAD Amp

(which was used and already older) twenty years ago from a Salvation Army Thrift Shop for twenty dollars. I think I more than got my money's worth from

this old NAD Amp. The Amp owes me nothing. I'm thinking this Amp (being so old) is most likely not worth the cost to have repaired (I dunno).

At any rate, I replaced the old NAD with a (less old) NAD Amp, the NAD C326BEE. That being said, I keep the C326BEE set up for a day (then switched out Amp again) as

I felt there was "something" missing in the Music. Mind you, the C326BEE does NOT sound bad, it just has a different sounding/presentation than what I am use to perhaps.

So, I swapped the C326BEE for yet another (forty'ish) year old NAD, this time a NAD 7130 Receiver (which I purchased a year ago) from a Thrift Shop for twenty dollars.

Yep, you guessed it, I PREFER the forty year old NAD 7130 Receiver's sound (30 Watt per channel) over the (circa 2010-2015) NAD C326BEE (50 Watt per channel Amp).

This all being said, I planto purchase a NEW "High End" Integrated Amp in the near future. Which Amp ? I do not know. The search/research continues.

I have not purchased a new Audio item (save an Onkyo CD Player) in over two decades. I figure now's the time to find a new Amp, a serious "Purist Amp".

An Amp that must be able/designed to handle 4 Ohm Speakers. An Amp that is a "NO frills" Amp. I want NO Streaming/DAC/No Phono stage/NO remote control/NO Bells

& Whistles etc. I need only a couple/few inputs. Heck, I really don't even need Tone Controls. I'm thinking all these extra features degrades the signal/sound/performance.

I also do not need too powerful an Amp as I seldom listen to Music at loud volumes. In fact, I mostly listen to Music using lower (to modest loud) volumes.

Sorry to ramble. R.I.P. My Classic NAD 3140 Integrated Amp, you have served me well. Thank you.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

There are plenty of very good new options available. Time to establish a budget, start researching and experimenting till you find something that produces the results that you prefer. You'll eventually find something that will be capable of driving your current and/or future speakers to their full potential while making you forget about your old amps.

 

[red 111]

Hi all,

Please help me understand, what is it in the design that makes me prefer the overall sound of my forty year old NAD Amps (a Classic 3140 Integrated and 7130 NAD Receiver ? Both Amps are circa mid 1980's.

Sadly, just yesterday, my old (Salvation Army find) Classic NAD 3140 Integrated Amp (which I purchased some twenty years ago) has grown tired and is having issues.
I replaced the 3140 from my system and installed a newer (perhaps ten old) NAD C326BEE Integrated Amp.

While the C326BEE sounds clean and is pleasant enough,
I feel "something" is missing in the overall music presentation (so much so) that I have (once again) removed the C326BEE for (this time) an old NAD (7130) Receiver.
I am finding that I much prefer the sound/presentation of the old 7130 Receiver.

I mean, what gives ? Why ? How ? I ask these questions because, I plan to purchase a more serious NEW (Higher End) Integrated Amp in the future (be it Solid State or Tube)
and I'm just trying to understand the reason(s) why the likes of the C326BEE (while not a bad sounding per se) is leaving me feeling unsatisfied vs. the older NAD Amps having
seemingly have a more rich/full body sound/presentation. Note that both the older NAD Amps are 30 and 40 Watts vs. the newer C326BEE 50 Watts.

I realize it is very difficult to convey in words the sonic differences I'm hearing. At any rate, any help/explanations/suggestions regarding differences in Amp sound (in general)
would be GREATLY appreciated. I really want to make an informed decision for a future new Amp purchase. Thank you.

SixCats! aka Tom in Maine

I’m with you on this point…I have a NAD 7240 PE receiver & a NAD 316 BEE integrated amp … the old 7240 sounds much better