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Why 'magnetic' cartridges?

catman

catman

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G'day all, there have been quite a few very interesting threads of late on the general aspects of various types of 'magnetic' phono cartridges. I guess the great majority of phono cartridges are of the 'magnetic' type.

Whilst I'm aware of other types (ceramic/ crystal, strain gauge types for example) that exist, it seems apparent that 'magnetic' types have the 'majority of the market' and I do wonder why they became the most common.

Apart from the other types that I've already mentioned, I guess in patent files somewhere where must be other types of phono cartridges not using 'magnetic' principles of operation. Are there any of merit that are perhaps 'better' than 'magnetic' cartridges. I wonder about that. :scratch2: :yes: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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Must be they offer best reproduction vs cost?

Interesting that the groove is traced by magnet and windings, amplified, then reproduced by magnet and windings. One of the great coincidences of the cosmos...

Bill
sweating in Florida.
 
Any physical mechanism capable of producing an electric signal (a varying in time signal that could be, e.g., a voltage or a current) out from movement could be used to create a cartridge: electromagnetic induction, piezoelectricity, even the use of photodetectors, etc. This is in principle, but then one has to come to a concrete design, which should be capable of producing a signal within certain parameters (e.g., average voltage output) and also be suitable for mass production at a reasonable cost.
 
Felix: I guess it's simply the most obvious approach to use basically the same technology as one uses for the writing also for the reading. Of course, the cutting head and the cartridge sport different optimisations for each purpose - but apart from that one can very well regard a magnetic cart as a magnetic cutting head used in reverse direction (or vice versa).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: And it'll certainly make things simpler to use velocity transducers for both operations (compared to using a velocity transducer for writing, but a displacement transducer for reading...).
 
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G'day all, I've seen reference to 'capacitor' phono cartridges. Anyone heard of those? :scratch2: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
Hi Felix,
I have wondered the same for quite some time, not just with respect to the front end, but with the speaker end. Since the marvelous stuff of analog was created, much has been learned about manipulating solid materials i.e. silicon, germanium etc. We are even at the point where IBM is on the brink of perfecting liquid computer memory.
I guess part of the problem that us we would be acoustiphiles are in the minority, not like the 60s-late 80s when the only game in town was acoustic sound reproduction. New developments are now targeted to toward digital sound.
 
Hello Felix, the capacitance cartridge, also know by the brand name Weathers, was a cartridge that used a variable capacitor to modulate an oscillator causing an FM signal.

This FM signal was detected. This FM signal is not to be confused with an FM broadcast signal. This system was all hard wired.
 
G'day mate, that's very interesting, thanks for that. I wonder if it replicates the FM broadcast 'sound' that I rather like? Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
MM carts don't require special pre-amps, or whatever signal inhancers they are. MC carts do need the special pre-amps for boosting the signal of a MC cart. So the majority of people have MM carts for thier TT, easier and cheaper. And MM carts are cheaper for the masses. Sound vrs cost of MC cart and extra equipment.

Just in the last 4 weeks I got a new (used) 1987 Sansui amp which I can either use an MM or an MC cart so I guess my next cart will be MC. May just buy one soon anyway just to see how much better it sounds. But I really do love the 'sound quality' of my MM: NOS 1980 Ortofon M20FL Super!! So there is no hurry at all.
 
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Both MM and MC are based on electromagnetic induction. I guess Felix is asking about cartridges that are not based on this principle for producing an electric signal. Is my interpretation of your post correct, Felix?
 
G'day all, yes Bluesky a very good point. I guess with so many things in life it all comes down to the bottom line, that is money and cost. :yes: A shame really! Yes Guiller, your interpretation is correct! Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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Felix as I foamed up a top of glass in the kitchen, of beer I thought of what you said about other mediums for transferring squiggly scratches on records. Of course no one else thinks of these things except us in the field. I will have to do a study of other ones that have come across.

I have been experimenting with junk (as others have said), turntables BSR and such removing tone arm's and fabricating sandwiching different woods. But it all comes down to MM cart's. It would be interesting to get a hold of what you mentioned and experimenting with those. It's all fun so why not. I have been praciticing thinking out of the box. Actually it's something I've be experiencing with my kids. lol.

Well, sorry for the off hand response. Guess its the foam.
 
There are going to be technologies currently used in robotics and medicine that have never been tried in a phono cartridge, for instance force-sensing resistors, which are apparently very cheap but, at present, not particularly accurate.
 
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There have been some postings on VE by someone who is a mad keen fan of Ceramics.

Apparently in the 60/70's Astatic developed high end ceramics - and there are a number of lodged patents associated with that development.

But it was swamped by the magnetics in the market place and never went further.

The Strain Gauge development went further primarily because it was excellent for Quad CD-4, and had the backing of Matsushita (National Panasonic, Technics and JVC at the time...).

Strain Gauge is still remembered and sought after due to CD4, and due to Soundsmith redeveloping the concept.

If someone wanted to redevelop the ceramic high end concept, I am sure this would have a niche in the market too....

And I believe there were also electrostatic cartridges.... Stax comes to mind.

bye for now

David
 
The Stax CPY was an electret film piezo generator type. Technically the electrets are indeed permanently charged electrostatic devices.
 
SteveA said:
There are going to be technologies currently used in robotics and medicine that have never been tried in a phono cartridge, for instance force-sensing resistors, which are apparently very cheap but, at present, not particularly accurate.
Click to expand...

You are referring to strain gauges, used by Pfansteihl first in mono, then Euphonics in stereo. Since then Win labs in stereo and Matsushita for CD-4 4 channel quad and stereo playback, and presently Soundsmith which is for all practical porposes identical to the Matsushita cartridge arrangement. The later Matsushita/Panasonic carts were pretty much fully developed and realised examples of the strain gauge cartridge principle. I use them as do several other members and listeners and Soundsmith has had great success with their latter-day version.
 
Humm...strainguage cart's. wonder how much something like that cost's? Guess I'll have to read up on those. Wonder if you need some external equipment to run them. I have a Sansui 9001. It apparently goes from dc to 50khz. I don't know, I might be confused on that point.
 
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