why some spend $$$$$$$ on their systems
- Thread starter donberry
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Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
I was bitten by this 'bug' at a young age like most of us I guess
In 1970 or so I heard Crown gear with Bose 901 :yes: The owner was an 'Audiophile' but didnt know it
Patch-Cord
Active Member
Call bulsh!t if you want, that's your perogative. However,,, all of the variables I mentioned, do have a synergy that affects the way a cable influences what it is connected to. If you don't believe me, take a 35ft length of 18G speaker wire and connect it between your amp and speaker. Then turn the volume up on your stereo till it hits its headroon. It's only a matter of time before the woofer is destroyed, or that channel of the amp cooks itself, (or both).
Beyond that. Either your system isn't resolving enough to hear differences, or you just can't hear them. No offense intended.
My system is barely resolving enought to hear a difference, and I'm using Blue Jeans cables over the "big box store" cables I used to use. Am I gonna run out and buy $500 cables? No. Will I upgrade to $100 cables? I'm thinking about it. Do I expect to hear a difference? I don't know,,, but I would be happy if I did.
You seem to be forgetting that LCR are relational. One influences the other. Measurements don't tell all, and everything is based on the construction of the cable... right down to the end terminations.
Patch-Cord
Active Member
Boy did this hit the nail on the head. :thmbsp:
DougMac
Super Member
I've been fortunate to have heard many high end systems going back to the late '50s'. I've heard good systems costing well north of $50k and they did sound very nice.
I have done an upgrade of my system that was not expensive, but allowed a much more revealing experience. Sometimes, however it is not all good. I listened to Anne Sophie-Mutter and for the first time, I could hear rosin noise in a pp passage. It was like my ear was 6 inches away, a sound I'm familiar with since I'm a violin player. The problem is, that's not how an audience hears it or is meant to hear it.
I'm sure some wealthy audio enthusiasts spend about the same as I do in proportion to their income and in so doing spend much more on their gear than I make in a year. I'm truly happy for them. However, I know there are others who spend beyond what is appropriate because their interest has become an obsession. I think that is unhealthy.
I should probably own a more expensive system (perhaps 2-3x), but I'm just cheap. I do buy carefully. For instance, I own a turntable which in today's money would cost $2,400 if bought new. I bought it for $300 and it has served me well for over 25 years.
I have done an upgrade of my system that was not expensive, but allowed a much more revealing experience. Sometimes, however it is not all good. I listened to Anne Sophie-Mutter and for the first time, I could hear rosin noise in a pp passage. It was like my ear was 6 inches away, a sound I'm familiar with since I'm a violin player. The problem is, that's not how an audience hears it or is meant to hear it.
I'm sure some wealthy audio enthusiasts spend about the same as I do in proportion to their income and in so doing spend much more on their gear than I make in a year. I'm truly happy for them. However, I know there are others who spend beyond what is appropriate because their interest has become an obsession. I think that is unhealthy.
I should probably own a more expensive system (perhaps 2-3x), but I'm just cheap. I do buy carefully. For instance, I own a turntable which in today's money would cost $2,400 if bought new. I bought it for $300 and it has served me well for over 25 years.
Superampman
AK Member
Okay, so now we're past 'hi-end' and on to "really hi-end"? Let's be clear. Because if it's "really hi-end", experience is probably limited to those who own Lear jets and live in places like Buckingham Palace with tickets to the moon. I have a feeling you'll find a boom-box in that house somewhere. I have no issue with someone spending their money but I would identify with his/her disappointment if it didn't measure up. Personally, I'd spend my money on one off custom gear regardless how rich I was. Paying over retail for fun is a whole different kind of satisfaction. I'd rather show off a Ferrari. Performance differences are far more objective.
The Kappas are great speakers. Nothing is perfect. Build them today and you'd likely pay at least 12-15,000. You are correct, I've never heard the IRS series. So what. I would however like to. Incidentally, 12,000.00 is sufficient to put together something that will rival anything in the 30-50,000.00 range.
Patch-Cord
Active Member
Yeah. The first time I saw flat panels, I thought it was just tapestry art on stands.
The the sales rep fired up the system and I couldn't believe that sound was coming from something so flat.
I'm still lusting for some Martin Logans, but I don't think they would synergize in my HT. Maybe someday if i go the 2CH route.
Patch-Cord
Active Member
I would do that if I could buy them at 1976 prices. But don't forget I need 7.
Still looking for that 20K donation.
Still looking for that 20K donation.
Superampman
AK Member
OH OH. What if you were to take it as a 'yes'? Come on, everyone is well aware of the main reasons people prefer tubes. Oh, the glorious mid-range. Oh, the beautifully rolled off top end and let's not forget that awesome full flabby bass. But oh the 3D effect! Now that's what makes it all worth it. Right? As long as the tubes are nice and 'BIG'.:thmbsp:
AudioMayhem
Active Member
Measurable variables tell everything, you must not have spent any time in engineering labs.
"really hi-end"? Seriously?
You've never heard the IRS line, but you are certain that you can match it for about 1/3 the cost?
For the record, High-End is just that. High-End. I've heard systems built around $50K Transport/DAC combos, $100K speakers, amps & cabling for a $250K package. Some sent me running from the room. Others held me like a magnet, rapturous.
Each piece of the system matters, to a greater or lesser degree. The biggest piece of the puzzle is the listener's hearing and preferences. I have sat in these listening sessions with a friend of mine, and our choices were opposite. Does that make either of us wrong or right? Not in the slightest. It just makes us individuals.
For you or anyone to say that $12-15K is sufficient to match a much more expensive system, EVERY TIME, FOR EVERYONE, is presumptuous, if you extend your logic to anyone but yourself.
Your statements apply only to yourself, and certainly not to me, or the general case, everyone.
Methinks you wear the 'Troll' badge very well.
Ladies and gentlemen, gentle readers, Please Don't Feed the Troll.
Patch-Cord
Active Member
Uh OHHHHHH
Superampman
AK Member
Actually, if you were to pay attention to the previous posts, you might gain some understanding as to what is being said. $12,000.00 in raw drivers and parts could certainly accomplish what I stated and was referring to.
Your first statement was a statement by JoeESP9 that I quoted in my subsequent response to him. You should probably read the thread before you make stupid comments like that.:yes:
Patch-Cord
Active Member
Because yes means yes. Any other anwer is some sort of dodging the question, and means no.
I grew up with tubes. 50's, 60's and 70's equipment. Some of it considered HiFi in its day. I still have several old tube radios around the house, of all sizes, (look at my new avatar). I started working on tube stuff when I was a kid. Repaired my first radio at age 14. The guy at the electronics store couldn't believe I figured out what was wrong. The hobby continued off and on for about 10 years. Had tube tester and everything else needed. Still have some old tubes and parts in the basement. I wish I still had the time to play with and restore them.
Do I like the sound of tubes? Sometimes. It depends. To me, some tube gear doesn't sound very good. However... when it comes to MAC and the like, it sounds very good to me, and that's NOT because of the price. Any Mac I have heard doesn't have flabby bass or rolled off highs, but it is still warm in the midrange, which is something I like.
I have been working toward giving my SS system a tube-like sound, and I am getting closer. What will it take? The right synergy of gear and cables, but I'm not gonna drop mega bucks into doing it.
Still waiting for that 20k.
RJolly87
Well-Known Member
Wow, this thread has turned in to quite the pissing contest.
I look at it this way:
90% of the cost is the hunt for the last 10% of the sound.
What sounds like perfection to one, is often criticized by the next. The system and the sound we seek is a reflection of who we ourselves are. If someone is a prick, and wants to flash brand name badges everywhere, it will show in every aspect of his life, including his system. If someone likes the underdog, and loves making a fool out of the first guy, than everything will be a reflection of that.
Myself, I consider myself a bottom feeder. I want the best sound, as cheaply as possible. I will scrounge, repair, and maybe even cheat, but just a little. I have only just recently broke the $100 investment mark in the equipment that I am using (not including equipment that was a scratch).
Can it bring Bach to the Future? Not really.
Can it take a decent crack at Tubthumping by Chumbawamba? Yes, much to my neighbors dismay.
Do I care that the guy across the forum just dropped 6 figures on a bathroom system for his second cabin in the mountains? No, not really.
Do I care that he looks down at me, thinks that he is better than me, living in a 40 year old mobile home trying to balance a turntable on a phone book to make it all work, after driving a 20 year old Buick home from a $12/hr job? Not really, unless it makes him feel better about himself, then I am all for it. At least somebody is enjoying themselves.
Sorry about the rant, but arguments on the interweb are just like the special Olympics. Sure, there may be a winner, but, well, you know...
I look at it this way:
90% of the cost is the hunt for the last 10% of the sound.
What sounds like perfection to one, is often criticized by the next. The system and the sound we seek is a reflection of who we ourselves are. If someone is a prick, and wants to flash brand name badges everywhere, it will show in every aspect of his life, including his system. If someone likes the underdog, and loves making a fool out of the first guy, than everything will be a reflection of that.
Myself, I consider myself a bottom feeder. I want the best sound, as cheaply as possible. I will scrounge, repair, and maybe even cheat, but just a little. I have only just recently broke the $100 investment mark in the equipment that I am using (not including equipment that was a scratch).
Can it bring Bach to the Future? Not really.
Can it take a decent crack at Tubthumping by Chumbawamba? Yes, much to my neighbors dismay.
Do I care that the guy across the forum just dropped 6 figures on a bathroom system for his second cabin in the mountains? No, not really.
Do I care that he looks down at me, thinks that he is better than me, living in a 40 year old mobile home trying to balance a turntable on a phone book to make it all work, after driving a 20 year old Buick home from a $12/hr job? Not really, unless it makes him feel better about himself, then I am all for it. At least somebody is enjoying themselves.
Sorry about the rant, but arguments on the interweb are just like the special Olympics. Sure, there may be a winner, but, well, you know...
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