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Why suffer with HDMI into receiver?

whoaru99 said:
Yes, that's the whole premise of the original post.
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heh heh.

atarione said:
optical doesn't have the bandwidth for 5.1 unless it is compressed to DD/DTS

the better way to go is too the receiver then to the TV it just is...
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I don't have the new DTS-TRUE HD DolbyDigital Whatever, just DTS-ES and DD 5.1.

Running the HDMI from my Playstation 3 to a 2009 Harman Kardon AVR 347 for sound would not give me the lossless format anyway. Playing Blu Ray thru the hdmi to tv, then optical out to receiver, ALWAYS lights up the DD or DTS logo.

With these things noted, is there any reason to believe I'd benefit from

PS3 to hdmi to receiver that doesn't decode the lossless anyway(TRUE HD, DTS HD)

??
 
Looks like your receiver is the limiting factor. Seems it does not do any of the newer lossless formats. In your case then optic would work just fine. *I think* the PS3 won't do lossless on HDMI or optic anyway. Still, keep in mind that HDMI is not just for lossless audio. It's also for control of TV with fewer buttons, it's for more channels of audio (provided your receiver has that capability), it's for ease of switching and control (press play on bluray and tv turns on and goes to correct input, stereo turns on and goes to correct input, surround setting automatically activated, etc). Of course all of the benefits of HDMI go right out the window if you have an older TV, and older stereo, and are just not bothered by convenience and sound quality.

I have my PS3 connected to my HDMI-less Krell pre using the optic cable, and it's my primary bluray player in my gameroom. Still sounds great, but I only have 5.1 in there. I will soon be upgrading the Krell and will get a receiver that has current (read: HDMI 2.0 compliant) switching, and all my sources will go to it for switching. But that's just me.

Jimmy
 
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onwardjames said:
I don't have the new DTS-TRUE HD DolbyDigital Whatever, just DTS-ES and DD 5.1.

Running the HDMI from my Playstation 3 to a 2009 Harman Kardon AVR 347 for sound would not give me the lossless format anyway. Playing Blu Ray thru the hdmi to tv, then optical out to receiver, ALWAYS lights up the DD or DTS logo.

With these things noted, is there any reason to believe I'd benefit from

PS3 to hdmi to receiver that doesn't decode the lossless anyway(TRUE HD, DTS HD)

??
Click to expand...

If your receiver cannot decode lossless via bitstream then you can set your PS3 to output Linear PCM and it will do the decoding of the lossless formats. The latter assumes, of course, your receiver will accept mulitchannel LPCM on HDMI and the sampling rate and number of channels you select in the PS3 are within the capability of the receiver. Your receiver probably will accept LPCM over HDMI.

In this case it will typically show up as some sort of PCM indication on the display rather than as a specific format because it's already decoded so the receiver doesn't know the format, only that it's PCM coming in.
 
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whoaru99 said:
The TV downconverting external input sources to stereo PCM was the norm in the past and may still occur on some models today. But, allegedly, more of the newer TVs will pass Dolby Digital from external inputs to the optical output.
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Actually, the opposite it true...flat panel TV's from a few years ago used to pass the signal on to the digital output in any form you wanted...the newest ones seem to have a big problem with doing that (which is why we had to dump our old Sony non-HDMI receiver when we bought a new Samsung 55" LED flat screen). Read somewhere that this had to do with the HDMI signal protection scheme or some crap.
 
Even if you have a TV that will pass 5.1 through to an optical cable, HDMI is capable of 7.1 while optical is not. If you are using a BD player and a 7.1 receiver, you will not get the full benefit unless you use HDMI.
 
JimmyNeutron said:
Looks like your receiver is the limiting factor. Seems it does not do any of the newer lossless formats. In your case then optic would work just fine. *I think* the PS3 won't do lossless on HDMI or optic anyway. Still, keep in mind that HDMI is not just for lossless audio. It's also for control of TV with fewer buttons, it's for more channels of audio (provided your receiver has that capability), it's for ease of switching and control (press play on bluray and tv turns on and goes to correct input, stereo turns on and goes to correct input, surround setting automatically activated, etc). Of course all of the benefits of HDMI go right out the window if you have an older TV, and older stereo, and are just not bothered by convenience and sound quality.

I have my PS3 connected to my HDMI-less Krell pre using the optic cable, and it's my primary bluray player in my gameroom. Still sounds great, but I only have 5.1 in there. I will soon be upgrading the Krell and will get a receiver that has current (read: HDMI 2.0 compliant) switching, and all my sources will go to it for switching. But that's just me.

Jimmy
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Oh, I'm concerned about sound quality, and I'm not averse to the convenient. Rather what I'm trying to achieve. It's why I asked. Thanks for your help, I learned some things.

whoaru99 said:
If your receiver cannot decode lossless via bitstream then you can set your PS3 to output Linear PCM and it will do the decoding of the lossless formats. The latter assumes, of course, your receiver will accept mulitchannel LPCM on HDMI and the sampling rate and number of channels you select in the PS3 are within the capability of the receiver. Your receiver probably will accept LPCM over HDMI.

In this case it will typically show up as some sort of PCM indication on the display rather than as a specific format because it's already decoded so the receiver doesn't know the format, only that it's PCM coming in.
Click to expand...

I have 7.1, but WAF limits it to 5.1. I'll look into your tips, but I wasn't aware PS3 does the new HD lossless, tho you're def right about setting the output to linear pcm. I remember that setting. Thanks for the help.
 
EchoWars said:
Actually, the opposite it true...flat panel TV's from a few years ago used to pass the signal on to the digital output in any form you wanted...the newest ones seem to have a big problem with doing that (which is why we had to dump our old Sony non-HDMI receiver when we bought a new Samsung 55" LED flat screen). Read somewhere that this had to do with the HDMI signal protection scheme or some crap.
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I disagree. Sticking with my previous statement.

You may be thinking of ARC to get the return channel via HDMI, but you have much better chance of getting Dolby Digital pass through via optical out on a newer set than an older one. I know there were exceptions favorable on a few older sets so I dont doubt the possibility of exceptions unfavorable on newer sets.
 
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I just don't want my TV to be processing all my audio signals from various HDMI out sources.
 
Depends on what you mean....

If your TV and processor are ARC compatible it's just passthrough. If your processor doesnt have HDMI you're only going to get the core DD anyway.
 
I've been doing quite a bit of reading on this subject lately. It's hard to use ps3 as my disc player (cd, blu ray, whatever) at it's best (optical out of ps3 is a downgrade in quality - hdmi out is what you want to use) for a 2.1 setup. Why aren't there standalone dac's for people like me? I guess it's a peculiar request, but it seems weird to me that I pretty much have to get a 7 channel ht pre/pro just to handle this 1 source.

Jeez, all I want is a bare bones preamp with a phono stage, 1 line level analog input, and 1 hdmi input. Pre outs for the 'front' or only set of speakers (maybe a 2nd zone) and LFE options. Is that too much to ask? Basically a suped up (not really) DAC.

I'd love to suffer with hdmi, I've been suffering trying to get there for years now. I'm ready to optical.
 
My 60" TV is essentially a monitor. I run DirecTV, AppleTV, DVD and digital audio from a network attached server all into a Marantz AV receiver (SR 6006). I don't need to mess with any TV controls except ON/OFF. Plus, I'm only running an HDMI and power cable to it. Simplicity works best for me.
 
skriefal said:
1. So you don't have to run more than 1 long HDMI cable through the wall.
2. So you can use the room EQ and video processing in your A/V receiver.
3. Many HDTVs can't pass through the high-resolution surround audio tracks (DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD) and will instead output a downmixed stereo signal. And even if they could pass through the high-resolution audio tracks, it'd have to be over HDMI because optical/coax S/PDIF links can't carry those tracks.
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I agree. Also, my Denon receiver has two HDMI outs, so I send all of the audio and video to another room with that output.

JimmyNeutron said:
As far as the remote control? Why spend money on universal remotes? I buy my clients an inexpensive pad (A Samsung 7" to be exact, with IR blaster) and download HT remote control apps. There is NO REMOTE in the world that comes close to the convenience of having a pad, with it's colorful display and infinitely adjustable layout, control your ENTIRE home theater system - and more. The days of universal remote controls are long gone.

Jimmy
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I have a "pad" (iPad/iPhone running Roomie Remote) and a Harmony universal and I am not getting rid of either of them. The problem with using only a tablet is the lack of tactile buttons. When I am watching a show or ball game, I want to just find the 30 second skip (as one example) by feel without looking at the remote.

The tablet is better at controlling my mac mini and my entertainment center through the wall (since I am feeding my office the HDMI I mentioned above). However, I like the choice of having either option (hard buttoned remote and tablet).
 
ikorman...I just faced this same issue. I built a new family room on my house and wanted to upgrade my system. Being a Mac guy, I wanted all Mac equipment but didn't want to spend 5K on a Mac processor. After consulting with many sound guys and reading quite a bit, I bought a non HDMI processor. I ran my DVD and Cable box directly to the TV and the audio to the processor via optical cables. I have no sound issues at all. I receive full DTS or DD and the sound is amazing. Not sure if I'm missing any codecs on DVD or not, but as I said the surround sound is wonderful.

Mac MX 119
MC 7108 8 channel amps
Samsung $99 DVD player
Emotiva DAC
Wadia iPOd transport
Integra CD changer
Klipsch in walls, in ceilings and RF 62 towers, Klipsch center
 
ikorman said:
Folks, admittedly, I am a stereo guy, with no home theater of my own. However, I am usually the guy that sets up HT stuff for my friends.

Long story-short: why bother with running HDMI to receiver from every source when any recent TV has enough HDMI inputs of its own? I spent some time with my friends HK surround receiver and messed with cables in and out of it, also programming the damn universal remote control. At the end, I just plugged an optical cable from the TV audio OUT into Optical input of the receiver and ran all the sources into TV with HDMI cables. So now, the TV is using the receiver as output, no matter what input is selected. The receiver itself is only used to change the volume, no need to select input from there.

I guess, there are uses, like using the built-in menu in the receiver with HDMI out. But, how often do you have to play with that?
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I always use optical if it's a choice.
 
I only have a 2 channel rig so for my setup I run HDMI from my Sony PS3 when watching Blu-Rays/DVD's to the tv & the optical out from the TV into the optical input on my Rotel Int Amp-which I use as my Pre-amp. If I am not mistaken, this then runs into the built in DAC in the Rotel. It is the best set up for me, considering my Rotel does not have a HDMI input. For my multi speaker/2 channel setup, it works for me.
 
Google HT remotes in the Google store and you'll find several. Download and install one and you're good to go. Some are completely customizable, some are pay, some are crap. But some are awesome.

Jimmy
 
"why bother with running HDMI to receiver from every source when any recent TV has enough HDMI inputs of its own"
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Most of us have many different connection options. I don't have a HMDI input on my older AVR (it has S-Video). So I say go with whatever works for you. IMO all of the connection arrangements from Coax & Optical Digital out to the most advanced HMDI should all do an Excellent job. That has been my experience anyway.

Running an HDMI cable through an AVR lets us take advantage of higher resolution Audio. Also some of the more expensive AVR's have on board video processors that might improve the performance of lesser sources as well.

Myself, I'm not the least bit interested in anything more than DD/DTS 5.1 through a good HT system. My new Blue ray player (I use it for DVD's mostly) has all the HD-Audio/3-D/4K/Wi-fi options available, most of which I will probably never use. I only bought it because it was so cheap, and it is said to load faster than some others. My old Apex DVD Player, which broke, was actually better for playing back DVD's. It had a 5 level zoom, a Volume control, Analog audio outputs, and great picture quality.

I connected my Blue ray Player and HD digital cable box to the TV with HDMI cables so I don't have to turn on the AVR every time I watch the news, or other programs that I'm not concerned about SQ. I use either optical or coax digital cables to feed my AVR, whichever is available when I want better sound. The Matrix SS options on my AVR require either an analog input, or PCM (not DD/DTS 5.1 which my cable box outputs) so I have connected stereo analog cables from my HDTV cable box as well to the AVR.
 
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