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Why you like the sound of single ended triode tube amps ?

bob412

bob412

Active Member
This is for individuals who actually own and listen to low powered SET amps in their system (2-6 watt class) . Can you go into detail about what it is about the SET sound that caused you to switch from transistor based amps . What's different about their sound quality vs that of a good transistor amp/tripath,etc ? I've never heard a good single ended triode tube amp . Feedback will be greatly appreciated . Seriously thinking of purchasing the Decware 2 watt triode amp . If I do I'm going the fullrange driver route . Feedback needed .
 
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I did not go from ss to SET. I went ss to PP, to SET. What stands out to me is detail and realism of small combos ( jazz and classical) and a great soundstage. Female vocals are really alive. Not nearly the difference going from SS to tubes was, but PP to SET is a difference. Weather you like it is subjective. Are you anywhere you could listen to different amps for yourself?
 
Not really . I depend on user reviews for making audio purchases . Some companies will let you try their equipment out before making a final decision . When you live in rural America you depend on online retailers more . Thanks for the input .
 
Br1ck said:
I did not go from ss to SET. I went ss to PP, to SET. What stands out to me is detail and realism of small combos ( jazz and classical) and a great soundstage. Female vocals are really alive. Not nearly the difference going from SS to tubes was, but PP to SET is a difference. Weather you like it is subjective. Are you anywhere you could listen to different amps for yourself?
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Female voice is a big part of it I guess. I don't run a SET amp everyday as the large horns take up so much space. I've been thinking of getting them out though, even with the No vote from the Misses.:D I think all I can add to this topic is my experience the first time I heard a SET amp (6 watter). I heard detail things come forward. Things like pick noise, fret noise, etc. were much clearer. This combined with a very musical, non-fatiguing presentation really impressed me. IMHO the "key" to a good flea system of any kind, is woofer control. It's not easy at all, but when you get a combo of tubeage, power supply, output iron, woofer, and enclosure that will deliver good stiff controlled bass, you're 90% of the way there. The wonderful mids and highs seem to come easy with a good horn driver combo. I like Emilar 800s quite a bit, but my favorite is the 600hz Edgar with the heaviest JBL comp driver you can find.:D 902s are good, but 2425s are better, yadda yadda. IME a good flea / horn system is a journey, mostly about the people you meet along the way, with the music being a big bonus if and when you get it right for a few hours of magic. SET on horns is the only type of system that has ever brought me to tears. Everytime I set one up, I swear off everything else, then I get a craving to play something really loud and all bets are off.:D
 
Jay you just need a SET with some power! That's why I built my 811-10. Thoriated filaments give a big sound if done right. Also beefy speaker networks help out alot. I don't know what you use but most networks don't do it for me. When you couple a SET amp with a network like I use, most people when they experience this they don't forget it. Tears! yes I've been there!
 
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I've never owned a decent SET, but I've heard them quite a few times. At home I use PP triode amps in differential mode with CCS's in the cathodes. I think it gives the detail and natural character of SET's with the bass and punch of PP. For me it's the best of both. Then you need to move on to interstage and input transformers. Caps just don't sound so good after hearing all transformer coupling with good transformers. It just gets a bit expensive. Of course, this is all opinion so caveat listener.

Good luck with your trek.
John
 
SET on horns is the only type of system that has ever brought me to tears.
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I have had people crying listening to Starker and Oistrakh at audio shows maybe a half dozen times while playing triode based Western Electric horn systems. In several of these cases, the tears came from the eyes of famous, long time pros in the industry.


Ask around and see how many exhibitors can tell that story.
 
I went from PP to SET. However, I still use PP. SET is best in midrange with voices. It takes a great PP amp to sound about as good as a SET. PP is a little more dynamic and SET is a little more open and airy sounding.

My speakers are 98dB sensitivity for SET use.
 
Believe me I still listen to my 500C, but 50s-60s jazz is all SET.

If you would like Diana Krall to whisper in your ear, SET is the way to go.
 
I'll be following this for sure. I've gone from SS to PP 7591s. I'd like to try a Bottlehead Stereomour, have the speakers to do it. My Fisher will stick around for when I want to get loud, but I think it would be fun to have the option to switch between SET and PP.
 
I have a Decware clone running fr mltl's. Vocals and mids are great. Open, air and detail.
With two watts you need efficient speakers. Just about finished with my OB's. These have even more detail.
I still use ss for ear pounding. :)

MK
 
I switched from PP to SET/SEP amps as my music tastes changed. There is detail in low powered SET/SEP amps with horns that is hair raising. I personally don't listen to a lot of heavy R&R much anymore, don't dislike it, just don't listen to it on a regular basis anymore. A SET/SEP amp is so musical on some music it is amazing. Plus those d*mn MN guys started me down that slippery slope of low powered SET/SEP amps.

Thanks,
Andy
 
I went from SS (very good SS) to PP to SEP in ultra linear configuration so SE-UL if you will, all home brew tubage. SEUL with KT88/6L6 family of tubes with horns or without all sounds great to me. SEUL knocked all the other gear to the shelf. Recently hooked up some SS in one of my rigs just to make sure I'm sane. SS gear is LOUD and more in my face compared to SE, I prefer the SE gear for its laid back and wide 3d sound stage and warmer sound specially great with horn loaded speakers.

Cheers,
Bob
 
My listening tastes run the full gamut, and I do most of my listening with ipsch, Altec, Jbl, and thiels. Set amps are a wonderful change of pace, but even with 105db sensitivity speakers, they do have noticeable constraints.
 
I was also wondering what the hubbub was, so I built a Loftin-White style 2A3 amp with a 6SL7 front end. OMG....when I first powered it up the sound of vocals totally floored me. I keep this amp at our small cottage down by the shore where I can enjoy it in peace.

I use it with Klipsch Heresy (gen 1) speaks. These sound pretty horrible with all of my PP tube stuff but with the 2A3 it really sounds glorious. Neither the amp or speakers have much grunt for deep bass but with jazz vocals and groups it is just amazing.

If you are considering the Decware- IIRC this is based on the EL-84 which is not really a triode...more of an SEP design. That kind of single ended system will sound a lot different than something like a 300B or 2A3. You should post your location- perhaps there are fellow inmates nearby that will invite you over for a listen.

Just for the record- I live a few blocks away from a decent hifi retail store and the selection of SET stuff is still pretty limited in comparison to the solid state and PP tube stuff so it's not just you hinterlanders. Even for us city dwellers, Home Theater drives the bus.
 
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Sounds - to me - a little more like real live musicians playing music. Not scientific at all - and I've heard plenty of PP amps I could live with... but I am pretty darned happy with SE 2A3 for now and the foreseeable future.

EDIT: Reflecting on the original post, I guess it's worth mentioning (for the umpteenth time, I'm sure) that I started my fleapower odyssey with a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls and a Decware SE-84B amplifier (SE pseudo-triode, essentially a clone of an old Zenith console hifi amp). Compared to the amp that came with the Cornies (a solid state, push-pull, autoformer coupled McIntosh MC-2100 - one of the harshest and grainiest amplifiers I've ever heard with my own ears), the little "Zen" amp and the rough-n-tumble Cornies were a revelation. First tune auditioned with the pairing was Sarah McLachlan's Angel and it literally did move me to tears. That little amp - which, to its credit, is dead quiet and sounds pretty good - just wasn't powerful enough even with the 98 dB (or maybe even higher) sensitive Cornwalls. Moved along to SE 2A3 and packed the Zen back up in its little shipping box... where it sits to this day.

The moral of the story - make sure you have an appropriately sensitive (and easy to drive, since most SET amps lack NFB) pair of loudspeakers before going truly fleapower.


SE84B in the dark by mhardy6647, on Flickr
 
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mhardy6647 said:
Sounds - to me - a little more like real live musicians playing music. Not scientific at all -
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I think that's pretty much it for me. Ya sounds way way closer to being there in the same room with the musicians. Most of the live music I go see all the musicians are using tube power and some fiddle players are using SE tubage, and fairly high tech stuff as well. I'm talking BIG $$ custom tube gear thats road worthy. Anyone notice when listening to 50/60s LPs that you know the musicians are using tube gear for the recording sounds totally AMAZING? I thinks it's synergy - human hearing analog - tube gear analog... just a match made by geeks of yesteryear, I wonder if those old school scientists knew they were on to something special?

Cheers,
Bob
 
I agree with most of what others experiance. I switch between PP EL84s and SE 2A3. Really depends on my mood what I prefer. SET has better imaging and detail but the PP is punchier with better dynamics and fuller bass. With my Heresys both (3 and 10 WPC respectively) CAN make my ears bleed if i wanted to so it's not really a volume thing with me though the SET did sound lethargic with less efficient speakers with radiators instead of horns.
 
Like just about everybody else here, my tube odyssey went from PP to SEP to SET. Each step of the way, I found better separation of instruments and better imaging. I don't think I can improve much on my Tannoy Monitor Golds and 300b SET amp. They pretty much do it all - in fact, I even like hard rock stuff on this set up. I just started listening to AC/DC again (hadn't since high school), and the guitar licks are smooth as butter - maybe it doesn't have quite the bang and crunch that AC/DC was meant to have, but that is fine with me.
 
Resolving detail at low levels is what single ended triodes do so well.

SET amps are the oldest of all amp circuits and the simplest as they use the fewest parts.

Unlike push pulls and transistor amps SET amps don't require negative feedback.
 
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