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Wiim Pro Plus sounds almost like my TV Headphones!

A

Ariansdf

New Member
Hey everyone,

After reading a ton of positive reviews, I bought a Wiim Pro Plus to enhance my digital sound setup.
Previously, I connected my Sony Bravia A80J's headphone output (yes, I know it's not ideal! :D) to the aux input of my amp. With the Wiim, I'm now using the TV's optical out to the Wiim and then the analog out to the amp.
For a side-by-side comparison, I connected the TV's headphone output to the amp's tape input and started doing some A/B testing. To my surprise, with the volume levels matched, the difference wasn't substantial—maybe just a 10-15% improvement!

Here are the details of my setup:
- Amps: Technics SU 8580 and Kenwood KR 4070
- Speakers: Heco Superior 700

I tested in two ways:
1. TV optical out vs. headphone out (using both Spotify and local FLAC files)
2. Spotify streaming from the Wiim vs. TV optical out

The Wiim sounds slightly softer, warmer, and the bass is a bit more detailed, and the TV sound a little more crisp and dry but the margin isn't large. The sound stage is a tad better with the Wiim as well.
Although my setup isn't by any means in the "audiophile" category, I was pleased with it and was aiming for more clarity and better dynamics.

I'm considering three scenarios:
1. Are my expectations for sound improvement unrealistic?
2. Am I doing something wrong, or is my amp/speakers setup limiting the quality?
3. Does the Sony A80J have a darn good internal DAC?

I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences on this.
Should I consider returning the Wiim and instead invest in an amp with a better preamp and a DAC, like the SMSL SU-1? Since I have the smart TV in the setup and a home server I can create a work around solution for streaming.

Thanks
 
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spark1 said:
TV as source for the Wiim? Why?

What's the purpose of the Wiim in that scenario?

I had trouble understanding your post, but it seems like you have too many different variables to make any conclusions.
Click to expand...
I was hoping I could increase the sound quality by adding the external DAC instead of using TV's internal one for headphones. (for all things you can't run on the streamer)
 
Since the WiiM Pro Plus has an optical in but no HDMI ARC, it would be an obvious choice to use the TV as a source if you want to improve the TV's sound and use outboard speakers -- with the TV as a hub for both viewing and, say, an Apple TV that accesses Apple Music, for example or even listening to a CD from an attached blu-ray player.

The WiiM Pro Plus and the SMSL SU-1 have the same DAC chip. I don't know about the analog implementations of either, but they compare well according to reviews.

As for the question of how the WiiM Pro Plus performs vs. TV analog output (the WiiM's DAC vs. the TV's DAC), you may have unrealistic expectations. The WiiM is good, but it's under $300 good, which means you won't see much of a difference with similarly priced gear.
 
justin_r_23 said:
Since the WiiM Pro Plus has an optical in but no HDMI ARC, it would be an obvious choice to use the TV as a source if you want to improve the TV's sound and use outboard speakers -- with the TV as a hub for both viewing and, say, an Apple TV that accesses Apple Music, for example or even listening to a CD from an attached blu-ray player.

The WiiM Pro Plus and the SMSL SU-1 have the same DAC chip. I don't know about the analog implementations of either, but they compare well according to reviews.

As for the question of how the WiiM Pro Plus performs vs. TV analog output (the WiiM's DAC vs. the TV's DAC), you may have unrealistic expectations. The WiiM is good, but it's under $300 good, which means you won't see much of a difference with similarly priced gear.
Click to expand...

Or with higher-priced DACs.
 
Okay, I'll bite. I am very happy with my WIIM. I added a WIIM Pro + to my rig because my AVR was outdated (Qobuz, server & Internet radio music).
I needed better streaming access functionality. My AVR is TOPL ca. 2016, and handles my Hulu/TV audio fine so I haven't used the extra input to the WIIM.
I can say that I find the DAC differences small. A 15-20% improvement is better above par.
I got a further improvement when I upgraded the power supply to an iFi ~$200 wall wart powersupply (the white one) A significant improvement over the one included in the box.
I didn't check your profile, but if you're happy overall with your rig, or only are using TV audio, tweaks are fine. But if you want significant improvement, you want to have better sound, it probably time for a system upgrade.
 
justin_r_23 said:
Since the WiiM Pro Plus has an optical in but no HDMI ARC, it would be an obvious choice to use the TV as a source if you want to improve the TV's sound and use outboard speakers -- with the TV as a hub for both viewing and, say, an Apple TV that accesses Apple Music, for example or even listening to a CD from an attached blu-ray player.

The WiiM Pro Plus and the SMSL SU-1 have the same DAC chip. I don't know about the analog implementations of either, but they compare well according to reviews.

As for the question of how the WiiM Pro Plus performs vs. TV analog output (the WiiM's DAC vs. the TV's DAC), you may have unrealistic expectations. The WiiM is good, but it's under $300 good, which means you won't see much of a difference with similarly priced gear.
Click to expand...
Thanks for you answer.
That's exactly what I was aiming for. I have almost everything on my TV (not Qobuz) that's why streaming is a "nice to have" feature for me, that at least saves a lot of energy (it's really expensive in Germany).
I imagined I could see some difference like when you listen to the same track on Flac vs Mp3 / Spotify vs Tidal or Qobuz (maybe not that different but on the same trajectory).
as @spark1 mentioned, maybe I should invest in a better DAC like Geshelli Labs J2 (in my budget range). I mentioned SMSL because the price is 1/3 of Wiim for the same level of quality. The Wiim Ultra also looks promising with eArc HDMI and USB inputs and a subwoofer output. and the fancy little screen on it.

I also have another question but I was too shy to ask!
The internal Dac supports up to 768kHz/32-bit and can output it from coax but the highest digital input it accepts (or even possible right now) is 192/24-bit. So the only way to maybe feed a higher bit depth can be the through Network right? But the question is if the algorithm still up samples the signal before out puting it from the analog outs? It makes sense to record on 768/32 but not to store or listen to after mastering.
I don't have an obsession here. I'm just interested to know how these softwares works.
 
ChristopherP said:
Okay, I'll bite. I am very happy with my WIIM. I added a WIIM Pro + to my rig because my AVR was outdated (Qobuz, server & Internet radio music).
I needed better streaming access functionality. My AVR is TOPL ca. 2016, and handles my Hulu/TV audio fine so I haven't used the extra input to the WIIM.
I can say that I find the DAC differences small. A 15-20% improvement is better above par.
I got a further improvement when I upgraded the power supply to an iFi ~$200 wall wart powersupply (the white one) A significant improvement over the one included in the box.
I didn't check your profile, but if you're happy overall with your rig, or only are using TV audio, tweaks are fine. But if you want significant improvement, you want to have better sound, it probably time for a system upgrade.
Click to expand...

Hey, Thanks. That's what I was thinking about. Maybe an amp upgrade is the way to go. Apart from if I keep the Wiim or not I think a better amp here can create a much better clarity and sound stage.
One of my other evil plans was to get a mid range AVR like one of Yamaha Aventage series, use it's signal processor and output the main pre-outs to my stereo amp. this way I could also use the surround sound for movies and so.... But I read many times that these signal processors decrease the quality because actually no one cares about sound quality in movies as we do for music (that's true, I don't!).
I don't have a good ultra low noise power supply. But I used my 10w iPad's charger instead of the included one.
 
Ariansdf said:
Thanks for you answer.
That's exactly what I was aiming for. I have almost everything on my TV (not Qobuz) that's why streaming is a "nice to have" feature for me, that at least saves a lot of energy (it's really expensive in Germany).
I imagined I could see some difference like when you listen to the same track on Flac vs Mp3 / Spotify vs Tidal or Qobuz (maybe not that different but on the same trajectory).
as @spark1 mentioned, maybe I should invest in a better DAC like Geshelli Labs J2 (in my budget range). I mentioned SMSL because the price is 1/3 of Wiim for the same level of quality. The Wiim Ultra also looks promising with eArc HDMI and USB inputs and a subwoofer output. and the fancy little screen on it.

I also have another question but I was too shy to ask!
The internal Dac supports up to 768kHz/32-bit and can output it from coax but the highest digital input it accepts (or even possible right now) is 192/24-bit. So the only way to maybe feed a higher bit depth can be the through Network right? But the question is if the algorithm still up samples the signal before out puting it from the analog outs? It makes sense to record on 768/32 but not to store or listen to after mastering.
I don't have an obsession here. I'm just interested to know how these softwares works.
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear. I don't believe that spending more on a DAC buys much in terms of fundamental performance. While some DACs have their own sonic signature that can make them more preferable to one user and less so to another, all DACs of decent quality are much more similar than different (bells and whistles aside).

In my opinion, there is significantly greater potential for improving the sound of your system by investing in better speakers and well-matched amplification.
 
I second that comment 'jayvis'. However don't sell the WIIM Pro + short. It's ADC and DAC enable very interesting opportunities, and it's EQ capablities including room correction are excellent used in the right context. I'd keep the WIIM, replace the amp with a very good Integrated amp w/o DACs & look very hard at the speakers. Also how good is the room. It's a component too. Try the clap hands test, you may want to add to the room.
 
Thanks for your advices.
I still have about 20 days to make a decision on the Wiim. and 250 euros is not really a lot of money to have some cool gadget to play with. It's also a perfect choice to integrate to your smart home system or NAS even if you hate alexa like I do.
As I mentioned I have a pair of Heco Superior 700. They sound little warmer than most modern speakers and deliver proper bass but can't be punchy. Maybe more comparable to something like JBL L series than B+Ws ( I'm not qualified by any means to make a real comparison! just from feeling and what I've heard...). I think the weakest point in my system is the receiver...
About the room, I've relatively good acoustics with a lot of textiles, carpet, bookshelves (I have good ears for that from years of playing in dead rooms) The thing is, my current living room is around 20 square meters, so I can't be too loud. That's why I'm trying to increase clarity, soundstage, and dynamics at lower volumes (max 60-70dB) without risking the neighbor calling the police. :))
Sorry if I went a little off-topic, but I appreciate your insights.
 
I played with a WiiM Pro Plus about this time last year and ultimately decided: I didn’t really have a use for the streaming features, except AirPlay, and I couldn’t really tell the difference sonically between the WiiM and the cheap 12-year-old Monoprice DAC and the DAC in my Blu-ray player. At least with my gear at the time. My Panasonic TV only has HDMI ARC and an optical S/PDIF output. No headphone out.

The WiiM worked, was very easy to use, and did sound good, even if I couldn’t distinguish it from the other DACs in my possession. Keeping it would not be a mistake. The coolest feature is that if you have other WiiM devices or AirPort endpoints, you can send any input (digital or analog) to those devices. I often think about buying it again for my vintage Concept 2.5, but I basically use my computer as my streamer, so, again, the streaming is made redundant, and since I can’t tell the difference among the DACs I feel comfortable buying, I force myself to be okay with that I have. I look at Schitt Modi and Modi Multibits longingly, though.

I ultimately decided to upgrade to a Marantz Cinema 70s. Power (50WPC) more in line with my speakers, DAC and streaming included (HEOS, which isn’t terrible, though it can bear improving) if I want to use it, and with HDMI eARC I can use the TV remote to control the volume when I have it on and playing TV audio. I play it at minus 45-50 db from zero, so I’m not even close to max volume, but the Audyssey room correction with dynamic loudness helps bring the bass and treble into line at low volumes. That’s a killer feature. (I like the loudness button on my Concept too).
 
spark1 said:
I certainly don't sell the Wiim Pro Plus short. I have two of them.
Click to expand...
Hello spark1,

As you note previously that you have two of the WiiM Pro Plus, have you had any chance to compare the DAC in the WiiM Ultra to the WiiM Pro Plus? I suspect there is not a whole lot of difference, however that being said I'm trying to decide whether I should try a WiiM Pro Plus or WiiM Ultra?

Currently I use a WiiM Mini connected via the optical output to a Chord Mojo to stream Amazon HD, the solution sounds very good to my old ears on my vintage 2 channel system.

I would like to add streaming and DAC compatibility to my other 2 channel system that's why I am asking about the WiiM Ultra versus the Pro Plus. My other possible solution is to purchase a WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro along with a new Chord Mojo 2 DAC and use that solution as my upgrade.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to test these possible solutions without buying them first.

Thanks

Don
 
Hey everyone,
Thanks a lot for all your help!
For anyone reading this later, I ended up buying a Kenwood KA 8100 in a unbelievably good condition (serviced and recapped very very nice).
now I have that crystal clear sound I was looking for. Everything seems much better but the bass is so powerful and rich that I should start redoing my room to have better acoustics. :p
I think as you guys mentioned I was aiming at the wrong direction the whole time.
I'm still unsure about the Wiim. Maybe I'll change it with a proper DAC or an Ultra but I think the best choice is to buy it for what it's made for, Streaming!
It's a beautiful device with a lot of functionalities a really good application. They made a lot effort to create the ecosystem around it ( I'm an interaction designer so believe me it's hard to create it :D ).

@Dony I also did a lot of research about the ulta in the meanwhile. It seems that the sound quality is almost identical. But I'd go for the ultra if the 100$ price difference is not a problem. most of all because the input/outputs are much more useful. Specially the USB if you don't want to create a whole NAS system in your home. I also love to have a subwoofer in my system because it helps the contrabass not being faded and blurry in the background and the sound stage gets much bigger and deeper.
and the display seems cooler. the pro plus front panel is the most useless part of the design specially when the room is dark you can't really see anything.
But still I'm not very deep in this field I'm sure others here have much more experience.
 
I purchased an Emotiva BasX TA1. I have had it for 3 or 4 months. Nothing is wrong with it I just do not like how it sounds. It was still a great value at $499 for what it is. I am 95% positive that it was a great value and that I can make it sound more like how I want it to sound. The manufacture did not short change me in anyway and it is not like it does not meet the specifications listed int he white papers. I could have returned it right away but why? Not like there was a better value or anything quarteed to please. At some point people need to live with their choices. If you bought a car you get what 3 days of 72 hours to return it.

I am not saying you should have to live with something that is defective or cut off a finger if you return a perfectly functioning item but it should be harder. I think 95% of items that are returned are buys remorse and well I think only losers return things because they regret purchasing something when there is absolutely nothing wrong with the item they purchased it. I am a big fan of 30% restocking fee's and people having to pay for return shipping because it prevents this sort of nonsense!

I think too many people put little thought into what they are purchasing because they know they can return it. 95% of people put almost zero thought into their purchaes or life choices and I think that is sad.

Many large youtube channels that review a lot of high end gear openly state that it is not the best. Most of them also tell you you have to jump up to $700 or $800 to get marginaly better and even more if you expect a huge sonic difference. There is nothing inthe Wiim Pro Plus price point that is vastly better. Other than lacking HDMI ARC it's WiiM Home app is almost as good as SONUS's app. It has optical in and out and gives you so much connectivity platform wise nothing $300 and less not made by WiiM is better.

If you need a headphone amp Emotiva's BasX A2M for $279 is impossible to beat. The entire amplifiers 50WPC amp section can be bypassed into the headphone jack giving you the power to drive even the most diffacult headphones. If you did not want to use it for headphones it is 50WPC into 8ohm load.
 
ProudArmyBra said:
I purchased an Emotiva BasX TA1. I have had it for 3 or 4 months. Nothing is wrong with it I just do not like how it sounds. It was still a great value at $499 for what it is. I am 95% positive that it was a great value and that I can make it sound more like how I want it to sound. The manufacture did not short change me in anyway and it is not like it does not meet the specifications listed int he white papers. I could have returned it right away but why? Not like there was a better value or anything quarteed to please. At some point people need to live with their choices. If you bought a car you get what 3 days of 72 hours to return it.

I am not saying you should have to live with something that is defective or cut off a finger if you return a perfectly functioning item but it should be harder. I think 95% of items that are returned are buys remorse and well I think only losers return things because they regret purchasing something when there is absolutely nothing wrong with the item they purchased it. I am a big fan of 30% restocking fee's and people having to pay for return shipping because it prevents this sort of nonsense!

I think too many people put little thought into what they are purchasing because they know they can return it. 95% of people put almost zero thought into their purchaes or life choices and I think that is sad.

Many large youtube channels that review a lot of high end gear openly state that it is not the best. Most of them also tell you you have to jump up to $700 or $800 to get marginaly better and even more if you expect a huge sonic difference. There is nothing inthe Wiim Pro Plus price point that is vastly better. Other than lacking HDMI ARC it's WiiM Home app is almost as good as SONUS's app. It has optical in and out and gives you so much connectivity platform wise nothing $300 and less not made by WiiM is better.

If you need a headphone amp Emotiva's BasX A2M for $279 is impossible to beat. The entire amplifiers 50WPC amp section can be bypassed into the headphone jack giving you the power to drive even the most diffacult headphones. If you did not want to use it for headphones it is 50WPC into 8ohm load.
Click to expand...

I'm a loser.

Congratulations to all the winners who keep speakers, amps, etc after hearing them and finding out that they don't like them. Wonder why Crutchfield and other online audio sellers make returns so easy and inexpensive? Could it be that with the absence of brick and mortar audio stores they realize that providing customers a way to demo a piece of gear or set of speakers is filling an important need in the marketplace?

But yeah, I guess youtube reviews and sound bites really should suffice...at least for everyone but us losers.
 
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