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Will a Music Streamer be Better?

geode

geode

F4 Phantom Seat Jockey
Subscriber
So, I have been streaming my Spotify through my Samsung Galaxy 15 phone to a iFi Zen Signature one DAC connected to my preamp. It sounds good to my ears. The phone and DAC are connected via USB-C to USB (DAC). The DAC is pretty capable with regards to formats and speeds. The limiting factor as far as I can figure is the USB version 2 port on the phone. I've read where 480 mbps is the max for it. And like most folks on this site I am always looking for improved sound :) My system is a Tubes4Hifi Sp14 preamp, connected to sometimes a Elelkit TU-8850 amp or the ST VTA120 amp. I am wondering how much improvement I might get by using a dedicated streamer. The budget streamers like WiiM and Bluesound seem to be nicely regarded. I think my iFI DAC is probebly better than what's in the streamers, though. I could use the Streamer just to stream and run it into the IFi Dac, or not. So, worth it or ...
 
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geode said:
The limiting factor as far as I can figure is the USB version 2 port on the phone. I've read where 480 mbps is the max for it. And like most folks on this site I am always looking for improved sound
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Just curious - why would this be the limiting factor? Even CD quality is just 1411kbps, correct?

By my math that's enough for 340 simultaneous CD-quality streams.
 
baked_potato said:
Just curious - why would this be the limiting factor? Even CD quality is just 1411kbps, correct?

By my math that's enough for 340 simultaneous CD-quality streams.
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I was just making a WAG at this. USB-C with USB version 3 will go 5 Gbps connected to the DACs USB-B SS port. A big difference in speed transfer. Your math appears to make my concern pointless. Thanks for pointing this out.
 
Kayel said:
Agree with the above post. The Mini is less than $100, as low as $70-75. Plays high resolution so very nicely. Some limitations with Spotify though.
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Spotify limitations? Are you referring to the 320 kbps lossy format? Or, does Spotify have some issues with the Wiim streamer.
 
Kayel said:
Agree with the above post. The Mini is less than $100, as low as $70-75. Plays high resolution so very nicely. Some limitations with Spotify though.
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I'm warming to this idea. It certainly doesn't break-the-bank. I could then free up the phone and just use it for a remote to use Spotify Connect. I am really happy with the iFi DAC, just looking to send it the best signal :)
 
jayvis said:
I agree with the comments above, and I'd also dump Spotify if you want the highest resolution available.
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I know there is better ie. Tidal et al. I don't think I ever heard a Lossless stream before. I can live with Spotify for now, they do have a great catalog.
 
If you are using Spotify free, that's the limiting factor. On my system it only plays at 160 kbps. Can you play CD's ripped to FLAC files from the galaxy phone? This would be the best sound benchmark, typical of what you could get in the best streams.

The other advantage to a streamer is you don't tie up your phone to play music. Spotify connect works in the background over your existing network, not via any direct cable link from the phone. You only set it up from the phone, or even a PC..
The Wiim devices also add room correction and EQ, plus allow for favorite streams to be added. And also allow for higher quality external low noise power supplies if you want to go down that avenue.
If you are serious, I would skip the Wiim Mini and go to the Pro or Pro plus. They have more / better features for not much more $. The Pro would be the one to get if you are using an external DAC, usually coax out is better than optical.
 
baked_potato said:
Just curious - why would this be the limiting factor? Even CD quality is just 1411kbps, correct?

By my math that's enough for 340 simultaneous CD-quality streams.
Click to expand...
Google AI search found this:

"The Samsung Galaxy A15 5G's USB-C port, supporting USB 2.0 speeds, can output audio at a resolution of up to 24-bit/48kHz by default. While USB audio class specifications can technically support higher resolutions like 32-bit/96kHz or 16-bit/192kHz with USB Audio Class 1.0, the standard Android audio system resamples all audio to 48kHz. "

As others have pointed out, Spotify only provides lossy streaming limited to 320 kbps at this point in time. So, Spotify resolution is the limiting factor for the OP.

One other consideration is the quality of the DAC in the Samsung in comparison to the OP's external DAC. There might be a difference.
 
BmWr75 said:
Google AI search found this:

"The Samsung Galaxy A15 5G's USB-C port, supporting USB 2.0 speeds, can output audio at a resolution of up to 24-bit/48kHz by default. While USB audio class specifications can technically support higher resolutions like 32-bit/96kHz or 16-bit/192kHz with USB Audio Class 1.0, the standard Android audio system resamples all audio to 48kHz. "

As others have pointed out, Spotify only provides lossy streaming limited to 320 kbps at this point in time. So, Spotify resolution is the limiting factor for the OP.

One other consideration is the quality of the DAC in the Samsung in comparison to the OP's external DAC. There might be a difference.
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I am using the DAC in my IfI DAC. I was thinking theusb connection between the phone and DAC would bypass the DAC in the phone. The DAC has pretty good specs, I think.
Digital
inputs
USB3.0 Type B (USB2.0 compatible)
S/PDIF (coaxial, TOSLINK optical)
Bluetooth 5.1 (aptX, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive, aptX
LL, LDAC, LHDC/HWA, AAC and SBC codec)
Formats
PCM 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192kHz
DSD 2.8/3.1/5.6/6.1/11.3/12.3MHz
DXD 352.8/384kHz
MQA Decoder
Bluetooth 96kHz
Chipset
Bit-Perfect DSD & DXD DAC by Burr Brown
Qualcomm QCC 5100 Series
 
Bob@FM said:
If you are using Spotify free, that's the limiting factor. On my system it only plays at 160 kbps. Can you play CD's ripped to FLAC files from the galaxy phone? This would be the best sound benchmark, typical of what you could get in the best streams.

The other advantage to a streamer is you don't tie up your phone to play music. Spotify connect works in the background over your existing network, not via any direct cable link from the phone. You only set it up from the phone, or even a PC..
The Wiim devices also add room correction and EQ, plus allow for favorite streams to be added. And also allow for higher quality external low noise power supplies if you want to go down that avenue.
If you are serious, I would skip the Wiim Mini and go to the Pro or Pro plus. They have more / better features for not much more $. The Pro would be the one to get if you are using an external DAC, usually coax out is better than optical.
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I'm using a premium subscription, so it's 320 Kbps max. Yeah, I'm looking at the WiiM for sure. I think the DAC in my IFi is better than the DACs in most of the budget streamers.
 
geode said:
I am using the DAC in my IfI DAC. I was thinking theusb connection between the phone and DAC would bypass the DAC in the phone. The DAC has pretty good specs, I think.
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The situation you describe should be bypassing the DAC in your Samsung. But if the Google AI search is correct, the Samsung resamples all audio files to 48kHz regardless of the native audio file resolution. I have no idea if this is 100% accurate. Am an iPhone person and have never owned a Android type phone.

Am pretty sure John Darko mentions the Android resolution limitation in this video published last week. Check out time mark 9:30 where he mentions this.

 
BmWr75 said:
The situation you describe should be bypassing the DAC in your Samsung. But if the Google AI search is correct, the Samsung resamples all audio files to 48kHz regardless of the native audio file resolution. I have no idea if this is 100% accurate. Am an iPhone person and have never owned a Android type phone.

Am pretty sure John Darko mentions the Android resolution limitation in this video published last week. Check out time mark 9:30 where he mentions this.

Click to expand...
Well Huh, didn't know that. I am looking at the WiiM Pro Plus. That will eliminate the phone altogether other than running the WiiM app. Of course I can try both DACs to see which I prefer. I have far from golden ears. Thanks.
 
geode said:
Well Huh, didn't know that. I am looking at the WiiM Pro Plus. That will eliminate the phone altogether other than running the WiiM app. Of course I can try both DACs to see which I prefer. I have far from golden ears. Thanks.
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I've used the WiiM Mini and Pro as streamers. Have tried their internal DACs and most every standalone DAC I've plugged them into via optical cable has sounded better. They work fine as streamers though per may experience.
 
OK, if your going to compare the internal Wiim DAC to your current DAC, for sure go to the ProPlus. It has all the same processing and I/O features, but has the integrated sample time base clock and DAC on the same board. This eliminates the potential for jitter in the DAC lashup. be it S/PDIF coax or optical.

The stream receiver provides the sample clock, and if exported via S/Pdif, the DAC has to re-generate the clock. Some do this better than others The propeller heads measure this stuff at ASR, and the ProPlus output rates high compared to most other top testing external standalone DACS.

One cool thing i can tell you about Spotify - I select music in the Spotify app, then play. To the left of the volume slider control is a rectangle with a dot - "connect to a device"
This opens a list of available players on your network, and you select Wiim. It also shows my Roku devices, btw, which will play it on a TV.
Once you select the Wiim model, you are done. The Wiim player wakes up on it's own and starts playing. No need to go to a Wiim app, but you can, to verify the bit rate, etc and see what's playing. Also do real-time EQ changes.
 
I may stir the pot here, but I think most folks will hear a lot bigger difference by playing around with the Wiims EQ / room correction, and then speaker placement, sound absorption, etc. than swapping op-amps. There were some bad ones in the 70's, but most are great today. Yes, there are minor differences, but tiny compared to EQ done right, or changes in the high end with speaker toe-in changes.
These little players (pro, pro plus - not mini) have some serious DSP processing power inside, and the programs are not your typical half baked hack lab stuff. I can't stress how nice it having these features in one place, under one hood, done in high bit resolution DSP math. With the sample generation clock and DAC on the same board. And the upgraded DAC chip on the Pro Plus is likely AKM's best so far.
 
Oh, and I just today took the free 2 mo. Premium upgrade offer from Spotify. Mostly to see how their 320kbps stream sounds. On a wide selection of stuff. Currently deep into the Chick Corea back albums. Trilogy 2 was a treat, but alas, Trilogy 1 is missing. So far, not too bad. I consider this stream rate the starting point for anything other than background music. Chick's early 70's RTF albums next. I have these 2 on vinyl, so I know how those sound..
 
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