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Will give E-Wave a Try...

PR Audio

PR Audio

Super Member
Guys, this is easy...I just want to try a pair of horn speakers, see what is all the hoopla about. I have heard many Klipsch, but except for a couple of models they have never been my cup of tea, as I find them fatiguing. The ones I like are what are considered their legacy models. The others I have heard are your run of the mill Pro speakers (JBL, Behringer, Peavey, CV,Audiopipe, Mackie, Laney, etc.), which are plentiful here, but not looking for party speakers. Anyways, in my neck of the woods you will not find any University, Altec, etc. on the local classified ads.

I have been reading a lot about the wonders of the Econowave (E-Wave), and want to give them a try, even if I end up giving them as a gift to a family member. Can you guys advise of inexpensive, but good, E-Wave components for a speaker to be used in a 10' Wide x 17' Long listening room? For those I would like to get good bass out of them.
 
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To introduce yourself to the E-wave at lower cost until you are convinced to proceed further, build the standard E-wave high frequency setup with full crossover and L-pad and try it out with speakers you already have. Run the low frequency (woofer wires) directly to your existing woofer (be sure to disconnect the woofer you're using from the internal crossover), then just place the horn on top of the speaker as close as you can to the woofer (which may require turning the cabinet upside down), dial in the horn with the L-pad, and enjoy. If enjoy is what you do, read some theory contained in the E-wave thread and elsewhere on how to dial the woofer in more, or choose one of the designs here at AK or Tech Talk and build a proven product.
 
Note than an e wave treble section paired with a low sensitivity woofer will probably not give the dynamics and life for which good horn speakers are noted.
 
turnitdown said:
To introduce yourself to the E-wave at lower cost until you are convinced to proceed further, build the standard E-wave high frequency setup with full crossover and L-pad and try it out with speakers you already have. Run the low frequency (woofer wires) directly to your existing woofer (be sure to disconnect the woofer you're using from the internal crossover), then just place the horn on top of the speaker as close as you can to the woofer (which may require turning the cabinet upside down), dial in the horn with the L-pad, and enjoy. If enjoy is what you do, read some theory contained in the E-wave thread and elsewhere on how to dial the woofer in more, or choose one of the designs here at AK or Tech Talk and build a proven product.
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This is great advice and an easy way to make sure that you will be satisfied with the results. I did this recently by putting Altec 511 horns on a pair of Allen Organ speakers. I used an Lpad to tone down the horns to better match the efficiency of the woofer. I'm very happy with the results.
 
Keep in mind that the eWave system is very flexible. It'll work with a lot of woofers/cabs as long as you're willing to tinker. The woofer should be able to reach about 800hz however.
This was my first xover I threw together just to see if it would work. Just recently, I added a 1mF cap in the first stage and vastly improved the sound. I'd second Turnitdown's idea.

 
Thanks for the idea of using existing speakers to experiment with...Though I don't have any sacrificial lambs in my house, my father has a pair of Yamaha NS-6161
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that he no longer use, and I'm sure I can use to play with. Will have to check if I can find specs online to see what's the freq range of those woofers. Any horn recommendations that won't break the bank and can be easily sourced? New or used.
 
Tom Brennan said:
Note than an e wave treble section paired with a low sensitivity woofer will probably not give the dynamics and life for which good horn speakers are noted.
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Not to scare a noob from the delicious new world that E-wave will introduce you to, the L-pad is exactly why it will mate with lower sensitivity woofers. In the case of higher sensitivity woofers, two components in the crossover will take care of that. All that said, DO NOT hesitate to ask questions. The only silly ones are those not asked. We will walk you through. It's that worthy a pursuit.
 
High sensitivity woofer is a good idea, but so is a woofer that has a nice smooth midbass range. If you can find one that does both, it's ideal, IMO.
Most 2-way designs with a woofer that had a great mid-bass sound oh so delightful.
 
Let's start here and walk you through. What do you have for speakers? We'll choose the best candidate and build it with you.
 
turnitdown said:
Let's start here and walk you through. What do you have for speakers? We'll choose the best candidate and build it with you.
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Thanks, I have built my share of OB's, Hybrid OB, 2-Way and 3-Way speakers, though it doesn't mean I'm an expert or that they have been well designed and built. Plus, very familiar with PA speakers, but those have never tickled my fancy, except for my son and nieces to party outside. But, when it comes to horn sound my home audio and HT experience has not been the best, so want to give a try to the E-Wave and see what is all the fireworks about. Just don't want to be disappointed by finding them fatiguing, I usually enjoy warm sounding speakers, but at the same time enjoy details, dynamics, and punchy bass; which I believe are some of the characteristics of a horn speaker. Hence, why I don't want to spend a lot, basically I would need only the horn and waveguide, as I will experiment using the above pictured Yamaha NS-6161 speakers. Not sure what is their SPL, though from experience I'm guesstimating around 86 to 88 dB in their enclosure, the woofers are 12" with Alnico and they put out very nice low clean bass. I don't have them in front of me, I have to go to my father's condo to pick them up and read the labels on the speakers, open one and see the markings on the woofer.

I'll buy L-Pads to control dB output of the horns, but which horn to get? I would like one that I can re-purpose, if I'm satisfied with the sound and decide to go ahead and build an enclosure with maybe another woofer. I was thinking of getting this PRV Horn Driver with this Waveguide or this other Waveguide, my room is small and not very wide. Any other value recommendations?
 
I originally started building waveguide "podules" to mate with various woofer sections as you, but ended up ordering another set of WGs and compression drivers and built e-waves based on the least of the first gen Advents, the Advent 2. This fixes the faults of the oem flimsy crossover and unimpressive dihedral tweeters and shows how good the midwoofer really is, easily my fave "small" speaker. I'd love to hear an e-wave based on the JBL LE-14 in a proper enclosure, but would settle for an e-waved Smaller Advent. The more into the mids the woofer can go with good crossover margin, the better the result. That's the main limitation to the concept with a given compression driver on top along along with LF extension, and ultimate top end tinkle, but this is a great project with suprisingly good results with a well chosen and housed midwoofer, I don't see many for sale afterward.
I may still complete the podules someday.
 
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Literally hundreds of these have been built, measured and listened to. In order to give these the best shot at sounding like the design, follow the design to the letter and don't deviate from it. THEN if you're not pleased, you at least had the experience and I guarantee someone will buy the parts afterwards. These deliver VERY nice highs, the crossover is smooth and if you use a woofer that will play smooth just past 1200Hz, you are good to go. The sound stage will surprise you as it will follow you around the room. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but if you don't have the knowledge or the measurement tools, follow a proven design. These were tested by multiple people with duplicatable results using some very sophisticated equipment to prove the concept. The proof manifests in the listening. I only own horns now. Ewave, 4Pi, 3Pi. I'm now looking for Large Advents to convert.
 
With the advent of low-priced screw-on B&C DE250 copies from Dayton and PRV, I'm not sure the advice to build with the Selenium D220ti still holds up, even if it's the one the crossover work has been done on.

The polyimide diaphragm drivers sound much nicer.
 
turnitdown said:
Literally hundreds of these have been built, measured and listened to. In order to give these the best shot at sounding like the design, follow the design to the letter and don't deviate from it. THEN if you're not pleased, you at least had the experience and I guarantee someone will buy the parts afterwards. These deliver VERY nice highs, the crossover is smooth and if you use a woofer that will play smooth just past 1200Hz, you are good to go. The sound stage will surprise you as it will follow you around the room. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but if you don't have the knowledge or the measurement tools, follow a proven design. These were tested by multiple people with duplicatable results using some very sophisticated equipment to prove the concept. The proof manifests in the listening. I only own horns now. Ewave, 4Pi, 3Pi. I'm now looking for Large Advents to convert.
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Thanks for your advice...But, living where I live, it makes no sense on buying parts to then sell, not a large market, plus shipping is expensive. Will experiment, then take it from there. I do have measuring and simulation software, mic, etc. Worst case scenario is that I have to bite my tongue and do as you recommend. But, see in my family there is this disease where we rather spend $500.00 worth of tools and/or gear, instead of paying $250.00 for an already made item.
 
IMHO the D220ti still holds up due to it's extended HF range. Couple that with the comparative low cost and you've got yourself a hit. The DE250 HF response drops like a rock at about 16kHZ which works out because a lot of folks' ability to hear rolls off there as well...

Here's an example of the plummeting HF with the DE250 on the Altec 511:

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PR Audio said:
Thanks for your advice...But, living where I live, it makes no sense on buying parts to then sell, not a large market, plus shipping is expensive. Will experiment, then take it from there. I do have measuring and simulation software, mic, etc. Worst case scenario is that I have to bite my tongue and do as you recommend. But, see in my family there is this disease where we rather spend $500.00 worth of tools and/or gear, instead of paying $250.00 for an already made item.
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I can relate. Succumb to the joy of doing it yourself. I'm not talking about spending $500 on tools when you can get a finished product for $250. With these, you build it per the proven recipe and it's all about the end product and how it sounds. As for small town and having parts you can't sell - if you follow the formula and don't like them, there ARE buyers. If you build the standard Econowave EXACTLY the way it is laid out with all the correct parts and hate it, I'll buy the parts from you.
 
turnitdown said:
I can relate. Succumb to the joy of doing it yourself. I'm not talking about spending $500 on tools when you can get a finished product for $250. With these, you build it per the proven recipe and it's all about the end product and how it sounds. As for small town and having parts you can't sell - if you follow the formula and don't like them, there ARE buyers. If you build the standard Econowave EXACTLY the way it is laid out with all the correct parts and hate it, I'll buy the parts from you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your support and offer! But not talking about a small town, you don't want to pay freight from Puerto Rico to your neck of the woods. I will follow the recipe see where it takes me.
 
Well, there is that. Trust the group. The only thing we get out of this is being happy because you're happy and that we have sent you down a path that will have you even MORE hooked on this hobby. Do it by the book first, then experiment if you must.
 
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