Windows 8: Improved Sound Handling

[Sanc]

I was able to play around with Win8 the other day at work and to be honest it really isn't that bad at all. Is it different? Sure is, but different isn't always bad. Like sKiZo just said, you can opt to use the classic layout/start menu config, so no problems there. What is very very cool about Win8 is that if you use Microsoft services, you have the ability to have Win8 seamlessly integrate with all of you MS services and accounts. It is actually very cool and very useful.

The ONE thing I would say no question that I would NOT use Win8 for is development. When I say development I'm talking about database work such as Microsoft SQL Server, Sharepoint, virtual machines, etc. But the fact is that companies that do a lot of this type of work, such as the company I work for, will always have Win7 available. And in this case you gotta use what is proven to work. You don't jump on IT (ESPECIALLY new IT) for the sake of jumping on IT, you utilize it IF it is necessary.

Would I go out and grab this right now for personal use? Certainly not, but I would say the same about any new IT product regardless of who makes it and what it is. This OS has potential, some new looks and functionality should not allow you to forget that.

 

[sKiZo]

You may find that W8 may gain popularity as more and more companies move everything to the cloud. It's supposed to be a big improvement when it comes to remote sites being able to coordinate and share using the metro. I used to work around 1200 points scattered across a region using PC Anywhere on dialup - I get heartburn just thinking about it.

And it's not like this is Microsoft's first attempt at a point 'n click tiled interface. Anybody else remember "Bob" ?

I think I still got a copy of that sitting here somewheres ...

 

[finnbow]

And it's not like this is Microsoft's first attempt at a point 'n click tiled interface. Anybody else remember "Bob" ?

I think I still got a copy of that sitting here somewheres ...

... and to think that Melinda Gates was the marketing manager for that silly abomination. I too still have a copy somewhere. Woof, woof.

 

[Nuvintage]

The whole structure of windows around a registry that doesn't stay clean after uninstall is just asking for it. I have been using OSX with no crashes since 2001. I do have a win 7 laptop and hate it. Even if you ignore the inelegance of windows vs OSX, you still have to deal with lockups and crashes. A novelist friend of mine (and myself) experienced MS word crashes so bad, that they devastated the temp, and version files. 7 pages of hard word vanish. The system is vanilla! No high end gaming card, no games, no 3rd party nonsense. This is absurd...it isn't the 1990's anymore. After introducing the PC to landfill, it's been OSX since. Every version of windows since 3.0 promises to "get it right" but it's closed structure (unlike linux and OSX) make it too unstable. Microsoft products are banned from my house. Out of necessity...the only MS thing I have is silverlight. I don't game much...but when I do...I prefer PS/3.

 

[Nuvintage]

Yes, it's a free BSD based system. But is't oh so much more elegant and far more stable than windows. It's OSX or Linux for me. Windows is based on stolen Mac os (they lost in court to apple over this) and it's just too flawed.

 

[withmusic]

I was able to play around with Win8 the other day at work and to be honest it really isn't that bad at all. Is it different? Sure is, but different isn't always bad. Like sKiZo just said, you can opt to use the classic layout/start menu config, so no problems there. What is very very cool about Win8 is that if you use Microsoft services, you have the ability to have Win8 seamlessly integrate with all of you MS services and accounts. It is actually very cool and very useful.

The ONE thing I would say no question that I would NOT use Win8 for is development. When I say development I'm talking about database work such as Microsoft SQL Server, Sharepoint, virtual machines, etc. But the fact is that companies that do a lot of this type of work, such as the company I work for, will always have Win7 available. And in this case you gotta use what is proven to work. You don't jump on IT (ESPECIALLY new IT) for the sake of jumping on IT, you utilize it IF it is necessary.

Would I go out and grab this right now for personal use? Certainly not, but I would say the same about any new IT product regardless of who makes it and what it is. This OS has potential, some new looks and functionality should not allow you to forget that.

And therein lies the problem. Who uses MS services? I don't! The only thing I use that is MS is the OS (out of necessity) and Office. WIN8 would render the office versions I use useless. WIN 8 is designed to make one 100% reliant on MS and fill the MS coffers. I have enough trouble with WIN7 getting in and fixing or tweaking things. I'm not about to pay $$$$ per month to MS so I can use my PC which is what WIN8 is designed for as far as I'm concerned. Every time MS comes out with a new OS it's locked down tighter than the one before so that the end user can not fix it if something goes wrong.

 

[adam-ads]

OSX is also a closed system too but Apple is a Hardware company not a software company. It just uses a BSD Kernel but the rest comes from NeXT (anyone remember that piece of crap OS).

NeXTSTEP was not crap. It was leaps and bounds beyond where Apple and Microsoft were.

OSX uses a hybrid Mach/BSD kernel with an Apple proprietary driver interface. It also uses a bunch of BSD libraries, utilities and tools. The primary API and display technology are much different than NeXT. It's not just, as you say, a BSD kernel with everything else from NeXT.

Apple is not simply a "hardware company", not by any stretch of the imagination. They haven't been that for nearly 30 years.

 

[Nuvintage]

Before this escalates into a win vs OSX war it should stop. I have used win since 3.0. I have suffered horrible, horrible system failures of all kinds. Like an abusive spouse, I kept bringing it back in hopes that new versions would be stable and work. They never really did, they did suck less, starting with win 95. Apple never foisted anything on me as cruel as win Me. OSX was damn good and stable out of the gates, and the worst issue that cropped up since 2001 for me are piffling, minor nothing compared to the horrific beatings I took with windows. I am 100% OSXEXUAL (tm) and cannot be converted. No matter what angry or hyperbolic argument that can be made for windows, it's lost on me. I appreciate some of it, it's not all bad...but I can never, ever go back to it so long as OSX exists. I am divorced from MS-OS's for good. No chance of reconciliation. Apple haters can hate somewhere else. I learned my lessons and won't go through that hell again. Oh wait... I still do... fixing friends windows machines....

 

[Sanc]

And therein lies the problem. Who uses MS services? I don't! The only thing I use that is MS is the OS (out of necessity) and Office. WIN8 would render the office versions I use useless. WIN 8 is designed to make one 100% reliant on MS and fill the MS coffers. I have enough trouble with WIN7 getting in and fixing or tweaking things. I'm not about to pay $$$$ per month to MS so I can use my PC which is what WIN8 is designed for as far as I'm concerned. Every time MS comes out with a new OS it's locked down tighter than the one before so that the end user can not fix it if something goes wrong.

You would be surprised as to how many people use MS services.

Not sure what you mean by paying monthly for MS. And in reality, anything you can mess with in XP you can do in 7.

Nuvintage, I don't really recall anyone hating on OSX at all here, I think we were just talking about Win8. Everyone has their own preference, that is what makes the world go round. I for one am not a huge fan of Apple products minus the iPad (a big part of my job is designing iPad apps for businesses) and the classic iPod. But just to say, if we are talking about being locked into a vendor, Apple is about as proprietary as it gets.

I'm not a fanboy for any vendor or product, I simply use what I like and that is my preference. I just think it is a little odd that people are jumping on the Win8 hate train so quickly without really giving it a chance in hell. In 6 months give or take it has problems out the wazoo, than yea I'd be right there with you. But coming from someone who recently used it, a lot of the cons people are hating on are very easily mitigated.

 

[Nuvintage]

You would be surprised as to how many people use MS services.

Not sure what you mean by paying monthly for MS. And in reality, anything you can mess with in XP you can do in 7.

Nuvintage, I don't really recall anyone hating on OSX at all here, I think we were just talking about Win8. Everyone has their own preference, that is what makes the world go round. I for one am not a huge fan of Apple products minus the iPad (a big part of my job is designing iPad apps for businesses) and the classic iPod. But just to say, if we are talking about being locked into a vendor, Apple is about as proprietary as it gets.

I'm not a fanboy for any vendor or product, I simply use what I like and that is my preference. I just think it is a little odd that people are jumping on the Win8 hate train so quickly without really giving it a chance in hell. In 6 months give or take it has problems out the wazoo, than yea I'd be right there with you. But coming from someone who recently used it, a lot of the cons people are hating on are very easily mitigated.

I have to wait and see with win 8, until months after all the standard apps and gaming has had time to develop/run/etc. Apple is proprietary, and under Jobs, they made too much unalterable stuff. I like the ipad, but I also like an android tab/phone with ice cream sandwich or jelly bean. Not sure about the surface, though well built--- it's like the Nokia lumia 900 with few apps. I like the step MS took with win 8's interface... but I am a LONG, LONG way before they'd earn my trust commensurate with OSX/IOS.

 

[JimmyNeutron]

Funny. Most complaints I'm reading here are nothing more than rumors. These are obviously coming from people who have not tried Win 8. To compare the beta and pre-release versions to the retail release is absurd. People love to hate MS, yet given their choices they still choose to use their products. First, no one forces anyone to use anything. Anyone is free to buy and use whatever OS they want: MS, OSX, Linux, etc. Second, you gotta be down right stupidly uninformed to think you have to pay a monthly charge for an OS. Third, just pick your flavor and enjoy it. If most people stopped hating on a product and actually spent that time learning it they would like it. Oh wait.....you say you don't want to learn something new? Really? You may as well just hunker down in your barn and close the doors cause you won't make it in the real world with that thought.

 

[sKiZo]

I've got wifi in my barn ...

Still hoping to see some real world experience with before vs after when it comes to sound handling.

* I just made a major improvement on my HTPC ... Did a check to see what version of DirectX was running and come to find out that was out of date. Ran the MS wizard and am now running 9.0c with all the patches ... as good as it gets with XP. Sound seems to have mellowed some since and it's gotten rid of some annoying clicks and chirps when I change modes. I expect that's because I'm still running DirectSound with my USB connection as WASAPI ain't happening on XP.

I'm hoping the updated DirectSound will be available as a standalone install for XP, but am not holding my breath. That's pretty well integrated into the OS - which has a lot to do with why it works as well as it does.

 

[vincei]

I've been on 8 for a few days now, and I'm thinking of going back to 7. I do not like the interface in practice. Looks cool, but it's more tablet based I think. I have not seen any improvement in sound per se. It's fast and pretty stable so far. Some things are quite different on how it handles things. I did do a clean install after I tried the upgrade, the clean install was quick, only a few minutes.

 

[satkinsn]

I used Win 8 all the way through the previews and was intrigued by the Modern (nee Metro) interface. I thought it was fascinating, the way Microsoft was trying to leapfrog over Apple and deliver one OS for tablets and for more traditional computers.

I thought the Modern/desktop split was a little awkward, but the fullscreen apps had a lot of potential, so I was willing to live with it.

Now that I've lived with the released code for a couple of weeks, I'm beginning to agree with critics who say the two interfaces just aren't a marriage, at least on an older laptop. The machine I have Win 8 on doesn't support multi-touch; I suspect if it did my sense of 8 would be different, because I'd be able to use gestures to get past some of the more fiddly mouse n' keyboard stuff.

But I don't have a modern laptop, so my experience of 8 is pretty limited. And at launch, Microsoft's app store doesn't have the Modern apps I need to do my work.

So a few days back, I decided to just turn 8 into an advanced Windows 7 machine. I put Stardock's 'Start 8' button on (it costs a little money; the free Classic Shell is also well regarded) which means I now boot to the desktop from the login screen. I then downloaded the desktop versions of Modern apps, along with - of course - installing the various legacy apps I need.

What I've got is a modestly faster, slicker Win 7 desktop that has better memory management, an improved task manager and a few other improvements. Plus, it's 'Pro' for $40, which means it connects to my work network.

Since I did the above, my day-in, day-out experience of 8 is much improved. I get work done without the uncomfortable switching back and forth, more or less like I always did. And the few Modern apps I use (Tune In Radio, fr'instance) can be pinned to Start 8.

My verdict? A mild thumbs up.

s.

 

[Sanc]

So a few days back, I decided to just turn 8 into an advanced Windows 7 machine. I put Stardock's 'Start 8' button on (it costs a little money; the free Classic Shell is also well regarded) which means I now boot to the desktop from the login screen. I then downloaded the desktop versions of Modern apps, along with - of course - installing the various legacy apps I need.

What I've got is a modestly faster, slicker Win 7 desktop that has better memory management, an improved task manager and a few other improvements. Plus, it's 'Pro' for $40, which means it connects to my work network.

Since I did the above, my day-in, day-out experience of 8 is much improved. I get work done without the uncomfortable switching back and forth, more or less like I always did. And the few Modern apps I use (Tune In Radio, fr'instance) can be pinned to Start 8.

My verdict? A mild thumbs up.

s.

Very cool. So are you saying you are running the classic layout (XP, 7) by default that is built into Win8 in addition to the new Win8 layout?

 

[transmaster]

I have Windows 8 installed and I can tell you is grows on you as you get used to it. I did load a start menu app to restore it as a crutch to help me out in the beginning. Now that I am starting to learn my way around the landscape I can see start button app is starting to get in the way. With the new WASAPI engine the sound is wonderful, much better then anything I have had from a PC in the past. There are some rough edges mostly with 3rd party software. My favorite player presently is SMPlayer, I locks up and at times disappears while playing so I cannot shut is down even from the tash manager so I have to restart to kill it. Winamp works well except is crashes on occasion Do not use the compatablity mode it make things worse. Then there is iTurd, it was a turkey in XP, it is a monumental Tooke-Tooke Bird in Windows 8. I love my iPod Touches but I am starting to look at either an Apple mini to run iTunes on or an Android, and maybe even a W8 Slate. I am playing a FLAC encoded version of Nightwish's Meadows From Heaven, the orchestial version on the Onkyo TX-NR709 in Pure Music mode the Polk Monitor 10B's are really belting it out stupenous sound much much better then XP. I ain't going back to anything.:yes:

 

[sKiZo]

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

Huh? Wha?? Did somebody mention sound handling? Wahoo!!

Good to hear that it's gooder to hear ... I'm still on the fence here but that'll help get me over the hump.

I did do a compatibility check, and the wizard didn't point out any serious issues with software that I use regularly. Having just done a full new install with XP MCE SP3 (I love it when I speak alphabet) probably helped as it had a clean system to work with. I'll more than likely have to reinstall all the software too, but doing that with my New! Improved! mean, clean, listening machine shouldn't be much of an issue - especially if I can look forward to getting a step or two closer to audio nirvana.

And I should probably do it quick ... the cheap upgrade path from XP goes away soon.

Speaking of compatibility issues ... it's not unexpected that older server software would have issues with the new audio engines ... those go into deep and dark places in the OS. Hopefully, within reach of the backroom nerds who have to recode this stuff. I did post up to jRiver's forum, and got a qualified ... it should work with their Media Center kind of response. I've been using that exclusively for some time now and wouldn't want to have to switch.

~~~~~~

May I have some more please?

 

[transmaster]

My PC's has been my primary music system for at least a decade, I will repeat it again Windows 8 is superior sonically to what I had with XP. I was not at all surprised that I would have issues with some these players. They are not upgraded very often; I will have to check the SMPplayer binaries over at SourceForge to see if there is a beta for W8. I really like SMPplayer because it has a nifty search engine for subtitles which is dead handy when you are watching Japanese Anime. I have had a love-hate feeling about iTunes from the very beginning so the fact it is a higher order of turd with W8 is not a shock. What I am really surprised about is Winamp (5.6.3) it is almost nonfunctional. I have a total of 5 T bytes of media, about 3 terabytes of music and the rest videos. One of the things I have always liked about Winamp is it scanning, and cataloging abilities. It now crashes when I try to scan my hard drives this is just one of the areas where iTunes has always comes up short. What I have done is load up 10 players, these are ones I have used it the past, Core Media Player, Media Player Classic, Foobar2000, Mediamonkey etc. I am listening to Bob Wills and The Texas Playboys on Mediamonkey it seems to be doing a good job. I am also set up with DLNA with my Onkyo TX-NR709 using Asset UPnP which is a dedicated music DLNA client from Illustrate (DB power amp) which I control from my iPod Touch. It is very interesting to listen to music that is not routed through my SoundBlaster sound card, it is a real cheap card which is a stand by replacement for a top of the line SB card that failed. I am going to get an ASUS Zonar to replace it. It is the software that comes with the Zonar as much as the card is the reason for the choice.

I have just pulled up NIghtwish and Meadows From Heaven ( the orchestral version) via DLNA (Ethernet from the PC to the Onkyo) for the first time in W8....oh my God what a sound the Onkyo is in Pure Audio mode, no graphic equalization, no other dynamic enhancement just pure honest to God stereo. The house is moving on its foundations....incredible, I love my Onkyo, My Polk Monitor 10B's, and Windows 8 is working its way in as well. Western Digital has a media App that is kind of interesting, it only works with WD drives is scans your drives, I have 5 WD hard drives and categorizes everything using tiles which is very much like one of the display modes in iTunes and my Touches. I have some real problems with it as it does not list albums, unless there is a setting I don't know about and the music is played a song at a time and I have not found a way of making play lists yet.

 

[skyline315]

The whole structure of windows around a registry that doesn't stay clean after uninstall is just asking for it. I have been using OSX with no crashes since 2001. I do have a win 7 laptop and hate it. Even if you ignore the inelegance of windows vs OSX, you still have to deal with lockups and crashes. A novelist friend of mine (and myself) experienced MS word crashes so bad, that they devastated the temp, and version files. 7 pages of hard word vanish. The system is vanilla! No high end gaming card, no games, no 3rd party nonsense. This is absurd...it isn't the 1990's anymore. After introducing the PC to landfill, it's been OSX since. Every version of windows since 3.0 promises to "get it right" but it's closed structure (unlike linux and OSX) make it too unstable. Microsoft products are banned from my house. Out of necessity...the only MS thing I have is silverlight. I don't game much...but when I do...I prefer PS/3.

I don't understand the elegance argument. Windows can be as elegant (or inelegant as you want it to be).

I've got nothing against Macs (or OSX for that matter). I just know that I paid half the price for my laptop as my wife did for her macbook, and mine has an HD screen, blu-ray player, larger hard drive, more memory, and a faster processor. *shrug*

And, I'm proudly crash and virus-free.

As for windows 8, I'm curious, but I'm also perfectly happy with Windows 7. Running WASAPI in foobar is very easy and the sound is fantastic. I'm sure I'll give windows 8 a look eventually, but I'm in no hurry.

 

[transmaster]

I don't understand the elegance argument. Windows can be as elegant (or inelegant as you want it to be).

As for windows 8, I'm curious, but I'm also perfectly happy with Windows 7. Running WASAPI in foobar is very easy and the sound is fantastic. I'm sure I'll give windows 8 a look eventually, but I'm in no hurry.

I had procrastinated so long updating from XP-Pro that when it came time to upgrade I realized Windows 8 was due out in just a couple of weeks and the price for the upgrade was less the half what Windows 7 would have cost so with my eyes wide open on went with Windows 8. For those of you worried about the Windows 8's desktop to get the Windows 7 desk top all you have to do it open Windows 8 in administrators' mode and that is what you will see.