Words of Wisdom on Integrating a Supertweeter (Sony SS-M7)?

[captouch]

I love my main speakers (Sony SS-M7's) - just the right amount of mids and bass, very smooth. BUT they're somewhat rolled off at the top. I don't get that sense of air/sparkle that's nice to have. That's really my only bone to pick with these speakers.

I actually have a single SS-M7A, which has the M9 tweeter, which is supposed to be brighter.

This afternoon, I put it into my system on the right channel in place of one of the M7's, and yeah, it's quite a bit brighter - not by a subtle amount. *Maybe* a pair of those would be just right, but I have a fairly hard/reflective room, and a bunch of other speakers I've tried here haven't worked in this room for that reason. So in addition to the M7A's being fairly rare, they actually could be a bit too bright for the room.

Which led me to wonder whether a supertweeter with adjustable level might complement the M7's and add that extra bit of highs I'm missing.

As an example (and cosmetics aside), it would be interesting to try and add a pair of Heil air motion transformer's on top as the AMT-1b speakers I had at one point has some really really nice highs.

Any thoughts or experience on success and methods for integrating a supertweeter to add air/sparkle to an otherwise nice set of speakers?

 

[StimpyWan]

A bit expensive, but these seem like they would be awesome super tweeters (none mine). Maybe they have a cheaper version too? Though, it shouldn't be too hard to DIY something like these.

Ali Express

 

[swechsler]

They're AMTs, although monopoles, they're usually pretty expensive (IOW, I wouldn't expect to save much by going DIY). I'd probably experiment with one of the ribbons/planars from Parts Express instead, or maybe even a used Infinity EMIT (which definitely does sparkle, and is what we Infinity addicts love about them). Of course you'd need to roll your own crossover (although you might be able to make do with a simple capacitor plus an L-pad, if you can figure out how the main tweeter is rolling off).

 

[swechsler]

Make sure the speakers are working properly, including rebuilding the crossovers - that may help.

I have my doubts about this - these speakers are from the 1990s and shouldn't really need a rebuild (plus Sony most likely used high quality components to begin with).

 

[audiomagnate]

I also really doubt that there's anything wrong with your crossovers or drivers as Sony used EXTREMELY high quality parts and they're not really that old. Maybe you could do something like they do on the M9's, or simply upgrade to M9s.

 

[dezmond76]

A tech friend had a pair of sony TL5 speakers and one of the inductors was not up to spec. One speaker the highs sounded fine, the other with the bad part sounded veiled like a sock was over the tweeter.

 

[captouch]

Thanks for all the comments so far. I think the SS-M7's are just voiced this way - others have commented about them being non-fatiguing and rolled off as well. They use polypropylene crossover caps. So while they could have been abused, I don't think anything has aged or degraded meaningfully. Both speakers sound the same, so unless they were both damaged along the way, I do think this is just the way they sound.

A list of the speakers I've tried out in this room: Alon II's, Vandersteen 2CE Signatures, Yamaha NS-1000's, Klipsch Fortes, IMF TLS50 II's, Klipsch KG 4.2's, KEF 105.4's, Dynaco A25's, Elac B6's, Paradigm Studio 20's, IMF RSPM IV's, ESS AMT-1b's, Yamaha NS-690 II's, Wharfedale 70E's. . .maybe more. You all know the effort required in finding speakers for a reasonable price, lugging it inside, comparing it across a variety of different music, and then putting them up for sale on CL and demoing and moving them on. It's non-trivial in terms of time and effort, and sometimes you lose money in the process moving them on.

The SS-M7's are the closest to what makes me happy sound-wise in this particular room. It's just that they're missing a little bit on top that would make me 100% happy. Right now I'm just not inclined to go through the effort of seeking out new speakers when I've tried so many already and when the SS-M7's are so close to being what I want them to be.

That's why I'm wondering whether some supertweeters would help.

 

[bassment142]

Would an EQ not help?

 

[captouch]

Would an EQ not help?

Perhaps! Don't have much experience with EQ's and their effectiveness. Thanks for the suggestion.

Am open to recommendations on EQ's that don't degrade sound.

 

[valvenator]

Would an EQ not help?

Only if the tweeter was capable of properly reproducing those frequencies.
Trying to make a tweeter do something it wasn't designed for might introduce more harshness/distortion than anything.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Perhaps! Don't have much experience with EQ's and their effectiveness. Thanks for the suggestion.

Am open to recommendations on EQ's that don't degrade sound.

I've read about a DBX 3BX "dynamic range expander" being nice...but have not tried one yet myself (want to). Not even sure if it's a true EQ...but worth looking into. I'm sure others will chime in.

I have also thought about adding a supertweeter of some sort to my Quad 57's (eventually)...I was also wondering about the best way to incorporate them...if they would require their own amp and/or active crossover?...it's down the road for me so haven't researched it yet, but it would be good to know what will be required.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

What you need to know is the x/o circuit of the Sony SS-M7's.
I'm pretty sure some attenuation will be applied to the tweeter,
thus making it easy to tweak the top end level with some simple
and cheap x/o modifications. Much better than a supertweeter.

rgds, sreten.

 

[captouch]

The suggestion about the EQ option was a good one. I have two options that I can switch in/out using an amp and speaker switcher.

The first one I use for background listening is a restored Sony 6060 receiver. It has tone controls. This afternoon, I tweaked up the treble just a bit and it made a big difference. I'll need to find the right level, but the results are encouraging so far.

My other option is an Aragon Soundstage with Dynaco ST-70. The Aragon also has some treble adjustment options, so I'll play around with that as well.

But based on the results so far, I'm optimistic that I can get by with simple tone adjustments as a first step.

@sreten, good point about the crossover mods. I've never opened up the speaker yet, but that's actually a good idea as well, as I have a tube preamp that has no tone controls that would be nice to use as well. I'm doubting I'd be able to find a crossover schematic on the web for the SS-M7 crossover, but when I open it up I can try to diagram things out and ask for suggestions on what mods might boost the highs a bit.

 

[tonyk]

I can only add that the one pair of SS-M7's I heard sounded rolled off as well, too much so for my liking as well.

 

[valvenator]

The suggestion about the EQ option was a good one. I have two options that I can switch in/out using an amp and speaker switcher.
The first one I use for background listening is a restored Sony 6060 receiver. It has tone controls. This afternoon, I tweaked up the treble just a bit and it made a big difference. I'll need to find the right level, but the results are encouraging so far.

That is good news. Honestly (and sadly) I've NEVER owned a speaker that sounded right with tone controls set flat.

Chances are maybe there's a resistor in series with the tweeter to limit the high frequency response.
Depending on the crossover frequency it might be a simple tweak. I take it there's no L-pad for the tweeter.

 

[captouch]

No, no L-pads at all. I'm not sure where the crossover is, but I'm guessing I'll have to enter through the front via the woofer opening. Just 4 Allen screws, but from what I've read there's a decent amount of fill in there.

How soon I get to this probably depends on how long tweaking up the treble continues to satisfy.

 

[JoeESP9]

I've read about a DBX 3BX "dynamic range expander" being nice...but have not tried one yet myself (want to). Not even sure if it's a true EQ...but worth looking into. I'm sure others will chime in.

I have also thought about adding a supertweeter of some sort to my Quad 57's (eventually)...I was also wondering about the best way to incorporate them...if they would require their own amp and/or active crossover?...it's down the road for me so haven't researched it yet, but it would be good to know what will be required.

A range expander and an equalizer are two entirely different things. Other than processing audio signals they have nothing in common.

A few years back the hot setup for ESL57's was the Levinson HQD system. It was two stacked pairs with Decca Ribbon tweeters in the middle and a Hartley subwoofer.

Here's a rear view.


A front view.

 

[c-atle-79bay]

I'm bumping up old threads as I just came across a set of these. I also find they work well for what is a hard reflective room, and I also feel they just don't quite reach high enough, particularly when turned up. Did you make an changes to your setup on this one? Funny thing I've had some of the main speakers you've had including IMF's which were great for the room, but, not loud....

 

[c-atle-79bay]

 

[captouch]

I'm bumping up old threads as I just came across a set of these. I also find they work well for what is a hard reflective room, and I also feel they just don't quite reach high enough, particularly when turned up. Did you make an changes to your setup on this one? Funny thing I've had some of the main speakers you've had including IMF's which were great for the room, but, not loud....

I ended up getting a pair of SS-M7A’s, a slightly later version that uses SS-M9 tweeters and go higher. A review even said they were borderline bright. They definitely extend higher, but with the right gear (using recapped Mac 1900 now), they don’t sound objectively bright to me.

That alleviated the need to go after super tweeters or EQ. IIRC, I did temporarily put in an EQ before I got the M7A’s and that did help.