Would a separate DAC sound better than the IPOD ??

[Akustic]

Been looking into DAC's but wondering how much better it would sound than the DAC in an IPOD 4th gen ??
The IPOD is direct from the 30pin into RCA's and sounds pretty good as is .. (passive pre into a selection of amps.. B&K, Aarogon, el34 tubes, old HK's )
With Spotify premium it's surprisingly close to the sound of the CD's running in a Denon DVD 5900 with a Burr Brown DAC...

I definitely prefer the CD with good recordings, but it's a bit of a coin toss with poorer recordings ..
Would a Topping D30 or a Schiit modi improve the resolution substantially or is it a bit more of a coin toss ??

I don't want to bother if it isn't a substantial difference ..

 

[GChief]

My Teac DAC/Amp sounds better than just my iPhone 7. But that’s mostly for headphones. I have also used it as a “pre-amp” a few times and noticed an improvement than just the phone. YMMV

 

[imral3]

It's definitely possible it could sound better. But, that is dependent upon both the DAC and as equally important your current system.

 

[Audiofreak71]

Your Dac in your Denon is much better than the iPods, with that said it depends on your system as stated above , is it a resolving system? If so then a Dac may make a difference. The Dacs you mentioned should make a difference over the iPod but I’m not sure you would hear a significant difference from the denon vs the Dacs you mentioned .

Now if you pair a good Dac and use your denon as a transport then you also may hear a big jump in sound quality, also Spotify premium is far from premium compared to Tidal HiFi or Qobuz HiRes, there is a big difference in the quality between them .

You may also only need to switch up streaming services to hear a big jump in sound quality. Imo I would start first with Tidal or Qobuz and see if theres a difference to your ears , it would be the cheapest alternative before taking a bigger leap with a Dac . Good luck and keep us posted.

Audiofreak71

 

[slow_jazz]

Not sure an Ipod has a digital output access to feed the dac.

 

[spark1]

4th gen iPod has a proprietary digital out capability, but only works for the few devices licensed to to do so. I believe Wadia once made an integrated amp with this capability.

By running from the 30 pin connector, you are bypassing the headphone amplification circuitry, which I have found to be a definite improvement over getting the signal from the headphone connector.

I have several old iPods (Nanos, a Classic, and a Touch)...we use them mostly in our GM cars, which have a pretty nice level of integration with GM's media player software (basically, you get touchscreen access to all of the iPod functionality, along with album art.

I use the Classic model as a means for playing back my fairly large digital music collection (ripped from CD) thru some of the secondary systems in the house. Compared to the Marantz DV7600 or Arcam irDACii in my main system (playing FLAC files from a W7 laptop), the iPod has a slightly flatter, less musical sound. Still, it is not bad at all, and on par or better vs several inexpensive DACs I've experimented with (using W7/Foobar as a source)

BTW...how are you running Spotify thru the iPod?

 

[Akustic]

Your Dac in your Denon is much better than the iPods, with that said it depends on your system as stated above , is it a resolving system? If so then a Dac may make a difference. The Dacs you mentioned should make a difference over the iPod but I’m not sure you would hear a significant difference from the denon vs the Dacs you mentioned .

Now if you pair a good Dac and use your denon as a transport then you also may hear a big jump in sound quality, also Spotify premium is far from premium compared to Tidal HiFi or Qobuz HiRes, there is a big difference in the quality between them .

You may also only need to switch up streaming services to hear a big jump in sound quality. Imo I would start first with Tidal or Qobuz and see if theres a difference to your ears , it would be the cheapest alternative before taking a bigger leap with a Dac . Good luck and keep us posted.

Audiofreak71

What I really want and can't have, is a higher quality Pandora stream .. It's a great way to discover new music ..
Been down the rabbit hole of diminishing returns and ain't going there again ..
Like yours, the system is high enough res to always notice a difference with cable changes or vibration damping .. it will reproduce what's there
( the Aaragon has a wickedly accurate high end, which why I use it as a bass amp, and use tubes on top, additionally the current DACT pre stays out of the amp's way (there's a tubed preamp and a Schiit SYS sitting there too))

I can talk all day about analog, and have owned and listened to a ton of gear, but as regards DAC's, I'm a neophyte ..
And thank you for a considered response .. It's a relatively inexpensive trial and It sounds like I should give it a rip ..

 

[Akustic]

4th gen iPod has a proprietary digital out capability, but only works for the few devices licensed to to do so. I believe Wadia once made an integrated amp with this capability.

By running from the 30 pin connector, you are bypassing the headphone amplification circuitry, which I have found to be a definite improvement over getting the signal from the headphone connector.

I have several old iPods (Nanos, a Classic, and a Touch)...we use them mostly in our GM cars, which have a pretty nice level of integration with GM's media player software (basically, you get touchscreen to all of the iPod functionality, along with album art.

I use the Classic model as a means for playing back my fairly large digital music collection (ripped from CD) thru some of the secondary systems in the house. Compared to the Marantz DV7600 or Arcam irDACii in my main system (playing FLAC files from a W7 laptop), the iPod has a flatter, less musical sound. Still, it is not bad at all

BTW...how are you running Spotify thru the iPod?

?? .. Just downloaded the app .. It's a premium subscription if that is what you're asking ... ??

 

[Akustic]

Also does anyone have a link to comparisons of DAC's where a variety of interconnects were used .. ??
They always make a difference even with this IPOD .. tried 3 of them and each one changes the balance and resolution of the music..
Although I'd expect that relatively inexpensive DAC's wouldn't be part of such a test.. it's a higher end kinda thing ..

 

[spark1]

?? .. Just downloaded the app .. It's a premium subscription if that is what you're asking ... ??

As regards Spotify; I had assumed that by iPod you meant the music player. I was not thinking about the iPod Touch...perhaps this is what you have? This would explain how you run Spotify thru an iPod, since it - unlike all other iPod versions - provides internet access. However, I did not know that the 4th gen Touch could run Spotify. The Spotify site specifies 6th generation or above.

In any case, your iPod does not offer digital output (other than thru a few proprietary devices, as I mentioned in my first response). So you cannot use it directly connected to a DAC like the Schiit or Topping.

You could look into finding a used Teac DS-H01 or Wadia 170i, which offered 30 pin iPod docking with the proprietary ability to get digital output from your iPod, and pass it to a DAC of your choice. Both offer analog output as well, via their own internal DACs.

Otherwise, there is no way to determine how much better a stand-alone DAC might sound vs the DAC in your iPod. But I would guess that a higher bitrate stream would make at least as much improvement as an external DAC.

 

[Akustic]

As regards Spotify; I had assumed that by iPod you meant the music player. I was not thinking about the iPod Touch...perhaps this is what you have? This would explain how you run Spotify thru an iPod, since it - unlike all other iPod versions - provides internet access. However, I did not know that the 4th gen Touch could run Spotify. The Spotify site specifies 6th generation or above.

In any case, your iPod does not offer digital output (other than thru a few proprietary devices, as I mentioned in my first response). So you cannot use it directly connected to a DAC like the Schiit or Topping.

You could look into finding a used Teac DS-H01 or Wadia 170i, which offered 30 pin iPod docking with the proprietary ability to get digital output from your iPod, and pass it to a DAC of your choice. Both offer analog output as well, via their own internal DACs.

Otherwise, there is no way to determine how much better a stand-alone DAC might sound vs the DAC in your iPod. But I would guess that a higher bitrate stream would make at least as much improvement as an external DAC.

Thank you ..
What do I know from Apple ...
She said yes they're IPOD touches .. just using things that are laying around the house ..
All I know is that once I delete an App, I can't reinstall it because they're not supported by the wormy apple ..
They're busy making corporate profits with endless unnecessary operating system upgrades ala Microsoft ..lost Pandora on one of them ..
There are other devices laying around .. laptops, phones tablets .. I'll find something that can work with an external DAC

 

[Audiofreak71]

What I really want and can't have, is a higher quality Pandora stream .. It's a great way to discover new music ..
Been down the rabbit hole of diminishing returns and ain't going there again ..
Like yours, the system is high enough res to always notice a difference with cable changes or vibration damping .. it will reproduce what's there
( the Aaragon has a wickedly accurate high end, which why I use it as a bass amp, and use tubes on top, additionally the current DACT pre stays out of the amp's way (there's a tubed preamp and a Schiit SYS sitting there too))

I can talk all day about analog, and have owned and listened to a ton of gear, but as regards DAC's, I'm a neophyte ..
And thank you for a considered response .. It's a relatively inexpensive trial and It sounds like I should give it a rip ..

I used to own an Aragon 4004mkii , excellent amp and your right about the bass it was very nice at controlling my speakers .

If you really want to get a taste of very good HiFi streaming then I would suggest using a laptop and get Roon , subscribe to Tidal/Qobuz or both and start building your library of Music . I use a MacBook Pro with Roon going to an Oppo udp-203 via upnp then going to my Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Dac. The sound is beyond words and is on par with my vinyl setup .

Audiofreak71

 

[Akustic]

Thank you ..
What do I know from Apple ...
She said yes they're IPOD touches .. just using things that are laying around the house ..
All I know is that once I delete an App, I can't reinstall it because they're not supported by the wormy apple ..
They're busy making corporate profits with endless unnecessary operating system upgrades ala Microsoft ..lost Pandora on one of them ..
There are other devices laying around .. laptops, phones tablets .. I'll find something that can work with an external DAC

And you're definitely right about bitstream rate .. everytime I find a way to increase it there's a notable improvement .. and the IPOD does sound pretty good coming straight into the RCA's (especially at Spotify's premium bitstream rate) which is why I was wondering about the magnitude of improvement that a relatively inexpensive separate DAC could provide ...

 

[Akustic]

I used to own an Aragon 4004mkii , excellent amp and your right about the bass it was very nice at controlling my speakers .

If you really want to get a taste of very good HiFi streaming then I would suggest using a laptop and get Roon , subscribe to Tidal/Qobuz or both and start building your library of Music . I use a MacBook Pro with Roon going to an Oppo udp-203 via upnp then going to my Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Dac. The sound is beyond words and is on par with my vinyl setup .

Audiofreak71

Thanks for the advice, and I'll explore those options.. as always I know that if I spend thousands, I'll be listening to the best that's possible, but I'm avoiding the rabbit hole ...
These days I'm looking to spend 10% of what's necessary, but I want 90% of the best sound possible ..
Somewhat difficult, but achievable ... Cheapskate Solutions ....

 

[Audiofreak71]

Thanks for the advice, and I'll explore those options.. as always I know that if I spend thousands, I'll be listening to the best that's possible, but I'm avoiding the rabbit hole ...
These days I'm looking to spend 10% of what's necessary, but I want 90% of the best sound possible ..
Somewhat difficult, but achievable ... Cheapskate Solutions ....

No problem at al I hope you can find what your looking for , I think we’re all trying to get the best bang for the buck , but remember with some things you get what you pay for. The used market for audio gear is a gold mine these days many things that weren’t obtainable years ago for a lot of people is very much obtainable today , it just takes patience to find those deals sometimes. Becoming a subscriber for AK and checking out Barter Town will a lot of times find you those outstanding deals on gear, definitely worth subscribing for BT alone imo.

Audiofreak71

 

[Akustic]

Looked around a little bit at Audioscience review, but they're all stuck in a 50 year old Julian Hirsch fallacy that if you can't measure it, there is no differences ..
All DAC's sound the same .. yea right ..
Sorry guys all you're doing is pointing up the limitations of audible phenomenon measurement ...Someone should point up Albert's conclusions about the contradictory dual nature of matter (particle or a wave) .. that'll really get em going ...
The flip side of their argument is .. An inability to measure a phenomenon does not negate the existence of said phenomenon..
The argument never fully works because it conflates the issue .. an EAR measures auditory phenomenon and they're measuring electrical performance..

 

[Akustic]

It's a waste to discuss the relative merits of DAC chips without discussing their audible performance .. indeed the chips themselves might all be equally effective in the digital realm but music is an analogue phenomenon .. in order to listen it's converted .. hence the term DAC ...
Once things are in the analog realm, the type of wire, differing components, sizing, positioning, even coatings of the wire are all affecting the sonics of the thing ...
Obviously differing DAC's have had differing sonics for a couple decades..
Does anyone have a link to sonic comparisons of DAC's ?? And thanks Audiofreak for the explicit recommends ..

 

[Taketheflame]

I don't own an iPod anymore (although I sometimes miss it), but I recently found myself in the same scenario with my smartphone - would a standalone DAC be a worthy investment/improve the sound of my digital collection?

In my experience, the answer was a definite yes. Even when ripping to .FLAC format from CDs, or 48khz/24 bit FLAC files from vinyl rips, I always felt that the built-in DAC on my phone (A Samsung Galaxy Note 8) had less than desirable performance, with a cold, brittle/bright sound (basically, most of the descriptions that people would use to describe a low quality digital source), and I typically preferred the sound of a decent CD player. I recently picked up a Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus, and I'd say it's done a pretty nice job of smoothing out the brittleness from the phone's DAC, and added lots of extra detail/definition to the low end (i.e - kick drums and bass guitars are heard more clearly than before), with a better soundstage overall.

I will add that at the end of the day, it's your ears that will tell you if it makes a difference or not (so you'll have to try a DAC to find out) - but I can only imagine it being a nice performance boost for an iPod - which was more or less a product of the MP3 era, IMO (albeit, a great and revolutionary one).

 

[Lossless]

I once researched the option here on AK to bypass the 30 pin iPod docks for playing lossless ALAC 1411kbps files from my 5.5 generation 30gb iPod classic. The iPods that have the best sounding DACs are the iPods that use Wolfson DACs. I believe the fourth generation iPod touch uses the Cirrus Logic DAC internally.

There are a couple of iPod docks that bypass the player’s internal DAC so you can use your own external DAC. The Wadia 1701, iStreamer, Cambridge id100, Pure i20, and a few others. Once again, check out the Best iPod docks AK thread here.

I do occasionally listen to my iPod classics 5.5 gen through a Kensington dock, but I finally ended up buying a budget friendly Meridian Explorer2 DAC and switched to a lossless music streaming service like Qobuz or Tidal that provided 1141kbps~16bit/44.1khz CD quality, and 9216kbps~24bit/192khz studio quality Hi-Res audio. The other streaming providers like Spotify premium, Pandora, and Amazon music only offer lossy 320kbps MP3 quality at best.

The Topping D-50 is a good choice for a budget friendly DAC since you inquired about the Topping D-30. The Topping D-50 DAC is Tidal MASTER quality and Qobuz Hi-Res audio ready.

 

[Akustic]

I once researched the option here on AK to bypass the 30 pin iPod docks for playing lossless ALAC 1411kbps files from my 5.5 generation 30gb iPod classic. The iPods that have the best sounding DACs are the iPods that use Wolfson DACs. I believe the fourth generation iPod touch uses the Cirrus Logic DAC internally.

There are a couple of iPod docks that bypass the player’s internal DAC so you can use your own external DAC. The Wadia 1701, iStreamer, Cambridge id100, Pure i20, and a few others. Once again, check out the Best iPod docks AK thread here.
View attachment 1575636
I do occasionally listen to my iPod classics 5.5 gen through a Kensington dock, but I finally ended up buying a budget friendly Meridian Explorer2 DAC and switching to a lossless music streaming service like Qobuz or Tidal that provided 1141kbps~16bit/44.1khz CD quality, or 9216kbps~24bit/192khz studio quality Hi-Res audio. The other streaming providers like Spotify premium, Pandora, and Amazon music only offer lossy 320kbps MP3 quality at best.

The Topping D-50 is a good choice for a budget friendly DAC since you inquired about the Topping D-30. This DAC is Tidal MASTER quality and Qobuz Hi-Res audio ready.
View attachment 1575662

Thank you for the detailed response .. that really helps as I was just looking into the Topping D-50 ..
Makes the search a lot easier when you guys offer guideposts ...