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Would you upgrade

O

onehorsepony

Member
Hi everyone, i'd like to get everyone's opinion on upgrading my set of loudspeakers.

I would be going from a pair of B&W 802D (the first of the diamond models, around 2010) to a pair of Focal Sopra 3's.

Is there much of an upgrade making this change?

I heard the Sopra's at an upscale dealer with a close to perfect setup: speakers about 15 feet from the front wall and about 10 feet from the side walls. Electronics were all Esoteric, including their $44,000 Grandiosa M1 monoblocks, preamp, cd player, power regenerator and $3,800 Cardas clear stereo speaker cables.

I'm not sure if these speakers would sound much different from my current 802D and my humble Classe CAM 100 monoblocks.

Also, how many years do speakers last before they degrade (speaker, crossovers, etc...)

thanks to everyone in advance.
 
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You're in the higher end of high-end with both of these, so the differences may be difficult to arrive at easily. I doubt that your B&Ws are tired. I can't imagine that the crossovers have lower quality capacitors or such that would have drifted in values in 10 years.
 
onehorsepony said:
Yea, i didn't think my 802's have degraded in just 10 years. I was wondering how many more years they have left in them.
Click to expand...

So you are looking so there must be something you are either not satisfied with, or want to move up. ?
Every different speaker is going to sound different. But that's a personal thing.
Does that dealer have other lines?
 
Drugolf said:
So you are looking so there must be something you are either not satisfied with, or want to move up. ?
Every different speaker is going to sound different. But that's a personal thing.
Does that dealer have other lines?
Click to expand...

Overall, I thought after 11 years with the same speakers it be nice to change things up a bit.

Trouble is, about 15 years ago I changed things up by purchasing a pair of Thiel 3.7's and they never worked out for me.

If I were to ask myself what I don't like about my current 802D's I would say issues with the soundstage and imaging. Vocals tend to wander from center to left to right within the same recording. Soundstage does not seem spacious and as open as I'd like.
 
I will say- even among Focal speakers- the Sopra No. 3 is a speaker of particular merit.

Some speakers are hard to set up- very detailed, very "accurate", but unless they are perfectly placed, they will not give anywhere near "musical" or pleasant sound.

OTOH- some speakers are very "forgiving"- capable of making pleasant sound almost anywhere, usually at the expense of detail and accurate tonal balance.

The Sopra No. 3 hits almost a perfect happy medium between these extremes. Great balance, a high level of detail, and an overall character that is just FUN.

I have, only half-jokingly, said before, that the Sopra No. 3 is one of those speakers, that I probably could make sound good in a phone booth- assuming you could actually get a pair into a phone booth. :D

It's really rare, to have any sort of audio equipment, that can have this level of clarity and fidelity, this pleasant of a tonal balance, and at the same time, be able to do it almost anywhere. But, that's exactly what I have experienced with the Sopra No.3, on many occasions...

Regards,
GOrdon.
 
I appreciate everyone's input, but if we could just focus on my original post.

In my selection, I also need a speaker that will make poor recordings and older recordings sound musical.

I had found that my Thiel 3.7's made anything but good records sound intolerable. I personally, don't think this is a sign of a good speaker. Yes, it is a very revealing speaker, but my 802d's make older and poor recordings sound, well poor, but yet they are listenable.

I go to audition speakers, Focal, B&W, and the first thing the salesperson does is remove my cd and proceed to play some perfectly recorded upright bass jazz piece which sounds amazing.

I'm running into this issue of listening to the speaker vs listening to the music.

Your thought
 
A good speaker will reveal a poor recording, or any other weak link in your system, that's what they do.

You mentioned "smearing / wandering" of the image, this is not generally a speaker issue. You may try a different cartridge or phono preamp to address the issue.
 
onehorsepony said:
In my selection, I also need a speaker that will make poor recordings and older recordings sound musical.
Click to expand...
IMNSHO, looking for a speaker that can make bad recordings sound better is a fools errand.
Better speakers strive to reproduce the music as it was recorded, neither adding nor subtracting anything.
 
I have some poor recordings of music I otherwise like. For those I keep a set of lesser speakers in rotation.
 
the skipper said:
IMNSHO, looking for a speaker that can make bad recordings sound better is a fools errand.
Better speakers strive to reproduce the music as it was recorded, neither adding nor subtracting anything.
Click to expand...

So much this.

Great speakers make you ditch inferior sources.
 
onehorsepony said:
I appreciate everyone's input, but if we could just focus on my original post.

In my selection, I also need a speaker that will make poor recordings and older recordings sound musical.

I had found that my Thiel 3.7's made anything but good records sound intolerable. I personally, don't think this is a sign of a good speaker. Yes, it is a very revealing speaker, but my 802d's make older and poor recordings sound, well poor, but yet they are listenable.

I go to audition speakers, Focal, B&W, and the first thing the salesperson does is remove my cd and proceed to play some perfectly recorded upright bass jazz piece which sounds amazing.

I'm running into this issue of listening to the speaker vs listening to the music.

Your thought
Click to expand...

I would insist that the sales person put your disk back into the player, so you can listen to what you want to hear.

If the speaker doesn't sound good, to you, on your music, then it's realistically not going to be the speaker for you...

I have found something interesting, over the years, and have specifically been thinking about it recently- as one goes "up the chain" of speakers, from low-end to high-end- there's a couple of stages that seem to happen.

Really low-end ("cheap") speakers are not accurate or revealing, and generally do not really "sound good" either. Think Bluetooth speakers or "pills"- that level.

The next step up, "sounds good" (pleasant on most material), but is not very revealing or accurate either. Most "mass market brand" speakers made these days, seem to fall into this category.

There seems to be another slightly higher level, where some "musicality" ("sounding good" on everything) is sacrificed for accuracy and being revealing. This is what I have frequently experienced with the entry-level models of a number of "high-end" brands.

Above that- as you get into speakers with very low distortion, better (less resonant) cabinet design and more sophisticated matching of drivers and crosovers- it is, remarkably, possible to have speakers that are BOTH revealing AND musical. That, IMHO, is where you actually get into the REAL "high end".

The Focal Sopra No.3 along with a few others (the Von Schweikert Endeavor SE, Acora SRB and the Magico A5 for a few examples I've listened to recently), seem to be in this category. They are "forgiving" enough to be able to be made to sound good in most any remotely decent listening space- but, if set up properly within said space, give incredible insight into the music.

It's cool to have a speaker, where you can be listening to a Liszt piano etude one moment, and ZZ Top the next- and the speaker gives a proper "fair shake" to both. Such speakers are, regrettably, not that common- but they do exist, at least to my ears...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
dcmfan said:
That sounds more like an issue with speaker placement and interaction with the room.
Click to expand...

Very much so, to me, as well.

I have found, that the more symmetric you can make the speaker placement (distance from rear and side walls, matching toe-in, matching tilt-back), the better and more consistent the imaging is- even off-axis in weird listening positions.

In an asymmetric room, though- sometimes, you have to just play around with them, to find the best combination of location. I'd still stick with the same distance from the rear wall (if possible), and the same toe-in to the center of the listening space. Beyond that, it may take some experimentation.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
In an asymmetric room, though- sometimes, you have to just play around with them
Click to expand...

There's a process called "Master Set" that works with asymmetric rooms. Works with symmetric rooms also. Basically you find the best spot for one speaker and then adjust the second to blend and sound best.
 
The only problem I have encountered, setting one speaker and then the other- is that unless the speakers are REALLY far apart- there is significant mutual coupling and/or interference effects in the midbass and bass, that sometimes require moving BOTH speakers, to get the best tonal balance in the bass. One speaker, by itself, may have correct bass balance- but add the second, and the bass can sometimes either be too much or too little in some frequency ranges. In such cases, both speakers typically have to be moved, as symmetrically as possible, to get the bass to balance out.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
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