Yamaha NS-1000M: The Definitive Setup Thread

[shortcuttomo]

Having recently spent $150 on a nice pair of NS-1000 Monitors, I'm looking for some discussion on how best to maximize their sound. I'll be spending upwards of a grand or so total on a preamp and amp.

I'd like to focus the discussion by listing four areas of interest:

1. Recommended Preamps
2. Recommended Amplifiers
3. Recommended Speaker Stands
4. Recommended Placement

Of course these may or may not be closely related to each other, but I thought it might be helpful in terms of structuring the response.


Thanks for the great replies in advance!
Greg


NS-1000 Monitor

 

[shortcuttomo]

1 & 2: Have at 'er. My current main stereo system is in storage so this is a chance/excuse/reason-to-the-wife to try out some new equipment. Normally I wouldn't care about all your varied opinions on amps/preamps (hah!), but in this case it's specifically in reference to this speaker, which is notoriously picky. If you were going to buy a relatively affordable system for this speaker, what would you buy?


3. I'm currently looking at some decent-quality metal speaker stands that are 16 inches high. The speakers are 26". I plan on using a few degrees upward tilt on the speakers.

One of the issues in this regard is that I've seen recommendations to use a much lower stand, say 8" or so. Aside from the fact that low stands are extremely hard to find in today's speaker market, and that my DIY options are limited, I'm just a little leery about having them that low - I generally like my tweeters a lot higher than waist level.


4. I've seen a lot of discussion about how these should be placed. Height as related to bass response is one factor, but also whether they should be against a wall. Currently mine are placed about 6" from the wall, but I can't get any closer in their current room because some (unused) electric heaters are in the way. I've tried farther out, but wasn't impressed. Should I move them to an area where they're flat against a wall?

Greg

 

[SoCal Sam]

Having recently spent $150 on a nice pair of NS-1000 Monitors, I'm looking for some discussion on how best to maximize their sound. I'll be spending upwards of a grand or so total on a preamp and amp.

I'd like to focus the discussion by listing four areas of interest:

1. Recommended Preamps
2. Recommended Amplifiers
3. Recommended Speaker Stands
4. Recommended Placement

Of course these may or may not be closely related to each other, but I thought it might be helpful in terms of structuring the response.


Thanks for the great replies in advance!
Greg

Wow, $150 clams for NS-1000M's!:yes:

The faster the amp, the more advantage you can take of the Be drivers. So far, my favorite solid state amps with the NS-1000M's are Kenwood L-09M and PC2002M. Some pro audio amps like the QSC USA1310 and the Crown XLS-202 and XLS-402 (non-D versions) also sound indecently good if you can get past the fan noise. Tubes sound magical with the Yammies but you might have to stretch your budget a little. My MC-60's are indescribably good. I don't run a TT so I do not use a preamp. I've found that most preamps are not transparent and add a little color. As they are sealed, placement is not too critical. Standard placement stuff like keeping out of corners apply. I would get them off the floor and tilted back a little.

 

[shortcuttomo]

I forgot to mention that currently, they are about 3" off the ground with a slight tilt back...courtesy of a mixture of cookbooks and environmental biology textbooks.

 

[Spectrum77]

1. I like them best with a valve pre.
2. Yamaha PC-2002M: seconded! Ran NS-1000s with a CA-1000III for a while- that was nice, too. Couldn't get any Pioneer gear to party with them, even a TOTL M-25.
3. Have a look at DENNYDOG's project: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=300421 Used DIY wood platforms here, about 12" high with an approx 10 deg tilt back (to suit room/listening position).
4. Season to taste- although seems to be agreement that, as per Yamaha's recommendation, NS-1000 work best close to the back wall. Imaging and bass reinforcement best in that location for these speakers.

 

[thunderroad]

Having recently spent $150 on a nice pair of NS-1000 Monitors, I'm looking for some discussion on how best to maximize their sound. I'll be spending upwards of a grand or so total on a preamp and amp.

I'd like to focus the discussion by listing four areas of interest:

1. Recommended Preamps
2. Recommended Amplifiers
3. Recommended Speaker Stands
4. Recommended Placement

Of course these may or may not be closely related to each other, but I thought it might be helpful in terms of structuring the response.


Thanks for the great replies in advance!
Greg


NS-1000 Monitor

There are lots of good preamplifier choices out there for not a lot of money, but most of them will be SS. I am assuming that vinyl is one of your main sources, so a good phono stage is a priority!

One of my low-cost favorites is the Kenwood C2 Basic. I bought one off ebay a little while back to pull together a second system out of my surplus gear and was very pleasantly surprised at how good it is. Lots of nice features including defeatable tone controls and an outstanding MM/MC phono stage with selectable loading. All that and it only set me back $125.

My Kenwood was an excellent buy, but there are lots of other good choices out there for just about the same price. I have also seen some nice NAD, Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, and other quality preamps out there for all about the same price, so take your pick. That will leave you the bulk of your budget to spend on a good quality high-current amp.

 

[shortcuttomo]

Thanks for the replies guys! Keep in mind that I'm in a small-market town and there's almost zero change of getting most of the things I want unless I order over the internet. (In fact I can't believe I found these up the street from me.) So for large, massive 50-pound amps, that's not going to be cheap!


1. I'm searching for a Bryston 1B preamp with a phono stage. I had one years ago and it got crushed during a cross-Canada move, just out of warranty. I've never seen another one, but at the same time I haven't really been looking until now either. We'll see if I find one somewhere. I've also been moving towards getting a dedicated mini computer system with a large hard drive, and having all my CDs ripped at lossless quality - so a DAC might be in order, but that will definitely drive the price up.


2. I've been looking at Anthem MCA-20 two-channel amps, because they seem like a pretty good value for the money (~$650 for 200wpc, solid construction and good name, etc. etc.). I was definitely toying with going for a tube amp, but at that price range something like the Grant Fidelity A-34 would be the best I could do. Everyone keeps saying that these puppies require a lot of reserve power to really sing, so I'm slightly iffy on pairing them with a budget integrated tube like that to be honest. But on the other hand, I am in a condo, and thus won't really be playing them too loud after all. So it's a tradeoff there.


3. From 8"-12" does seem to be the generally recommended stand height. Of course, finding stands like that are pretty rare; the industry has gone to floorstanders or bookshelfs these days. On the other hand, to be honest I just really like my tweeters to be a little higher. I think I'm going to try some 16" stands I found for really cheap; I can give them a few degrees of tip-back as well and see how I feel about it.

Like I said, just moved into a condo for the time being - so a DIY project is pretty much not going to happen.


4. I'll see what I can do about moving them back closer to a wall. At this point however, I don't see 6" really making a huge difference...but we'll see.

Greg

 

[cdfac]

there's a Yamaha B-2 auction ending tonight on eBay -- i think you'll find it's better suited for the NS-1000M than the MCA-20, with much better build quality to boot. another amp i'd take over the MCA-20 for the same money would be the PS Audio Delta 200 that's in the Barter Town forum right now, and then there's also the Yamaha PC-4002M there as well if 430Wpc is your thing.

 

[shortcuttomo]

Agree with the B-2, but the seller is shipping continental US only. Plus, I've heard that those amps are fairly difficult to repair if they go down, although I don't know if that is true or not.


Not sure where the Barter Town forum is, but again, international shipping for 60+ pound massive amps would probably run me a mild fortune.

Greg

 

[cdfac]

ah, i didn't see you were in Canada.

 

[shortcuttomo]

Yeah, you know how it is - postage is expensive when mail has to be delivered by sled dogs to your frostbitten door.

 

[Xtinc]

Congrats on the purchase! $150 is a steal for such awesome speakers.

My current setup has my NS1000M's about 8 inches off the floor and against the rear wall. Not sure of the height difference, but against the wall enhances the bass response.

First I used a C-80/M-80 combo, but really enjoy them connected to a Jolida JD502b. This tube integrated puts out 60WPC using 6550EH power tubes and has more than enough power for my room, but I tend to keep the volume at moderate levels. The NS1000's could get a little harsh with the SS combo, but never with the tubes. I've never felt the bass was lacking even with the lower watt tube rig. I don’t have the audiophile vocabulary to properly express what I’m hearing from this setup, but I can say the clarity is amazing. Have fun.

 

[Arkay]

I'll second the thought that Yamaha engineers knew what they were doing when they recommended getting these things near the back wall.

If you are putting them on stands, anything from 10" high to 15" high seems to work best (and which height is best may vary according to things like what kind of floor surface you have and your own sonic preferences) BUT... the real secret to NS1000Ms lies in the other way that Yamaha also recommended placing them: horizontally, as they would have been in many studios. Get all the drivers equally at ear level, and surprisingly, they image a bit better and sound very good! I say surprisingly, because this doesn't work with a lot of speakers. However, it DOES work with these Yammies. I tried it. Unfortunately, limited space for speakers at the end of my living room meant I had to put them back vertically after the experiment. :sigh: I've found these speakers seem to work best WITHOUT toe-in. You can angle them back a bit to point the tweeters at your ear level, but don't toe them in, and you get a better imaging. I'm not sure if that is universal, but it seems that way in my space.

Yamaha amps like the B2 work especially well with these speakers, because they tend to control them well, letting the most accurate sound emerge. However, some of the Yammie amps will make them sound almost too "clinical" for a lot of people's listening tastes. A good tube preamp with a powerful and accurate power amp yields a great sound; the tubes warm up the sound, and the power amp gives the speakers the headroom and "juice" to "open up" the sound/dynamics.

I'm really looking forward to trying the Elliott (EASE) Magnum Opus One + Yamaha 101M combo through these (and my other speakers), as it is just such a combination. They don't need the power of the 101M (what does, short of a rock band's concert array? ), but the NS1000Ms seem to appreciate sufficient power, so this combo should (I hope) really/fully reveal what these speakers are capable of. I might consider adding a fast-blow fuse first, though, just in case the volume knob ever gets bumped --I'd hate to lose one of those beryllium drivers!

 

[shortcuttomo]

Yes, I guess the question at this point is whether to go tube preamp with a SS amp, or the other way 'round.

Either way, I'm not a tube guy at all, but when it comes to these speakers that's pretty much the main recommendation I see.

 

[shortcuttomo]

Looks like it'll probably be a SS amp with a tube preamp. That seems like the best price/performance combo, and also leaves me the possibility of keeping the SS and integrating it into my main system down the road. I'm hoping to set up a HT/music room in the next house I get, so the amp I get now could be slotted into rears duty (or mono bloc). I did look around at what tube amps were available, but once you start talking 40 wpc and up the prices start climbing out of my budget pretty quickly!


Understand that the used market is pretty tight up here in Canada - we really don't have the options that you do in the States, and since we still seem to have a thriving online audiophile market most sellers can command high prices for used gear. (Obviously these speakers are living proof that deals can be found, but that doesn't help much when you're looking for something specific!) I'm in a particularly small-market area, so it's a guaranteed that almost anything I buy will have to be shipped - which is a significant premium when you're talking about 80-pound amplifiers! I tried looking for all the amps recommended thus far, but couldn't find them for sale online in Canada.


At the moment I'm looking at a Parasound Halo A 23 and the Anthem MCA 20. Obviously the Anthem is in a slightly larger class, but the A 23 is cheaper, smaller and lighter - and it's not like 125 watts is severely underpowered, especially for the low-to-moderate condo levels at which the NS-1000Ms will be driven. Slew rate on the Parasound is much higher, but I'm not sure that it will make any difference listening-wise anyway.


Otherwise, I've been moving these speakers and the furniture around a little every day, trying to find a sweet spot. They've been dialed in a little now, and I must say I'm still pleasantly surprised at the sound. The little Harman Hardon receiver I've been using was formerly driving my bookshelf speakers, and was never meant for these puppies, but at 75 wpc it can handle low volume levels just fine. Jazz records sound great, and the Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Sessions is fantastic; stuff like ISIS and other heavy rock, not so much (too harsh).


I'm getting the 16" stands this week. We'll see what happens to the sound.

greg

 

[von.ah]

I'm really looking forward to trying the Elliott (EASE) Magnum Opus One + Yamaha 101M combo

Wait wait wait. Did I miss the epic thread where you describe acquiring a 101M? Or did you just think you's slip that one past us?

 

[avionic]

1. I like them best with a valve pre.
2. Yamaha PC-2002M: seconded! Ran NS-1000s with a CA-1000III for a while- that was nice, too. Couldn't get any Pioneer gear to party with them, even a TOTL M-25.
3. Have a look at DENNYDOG's project: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=300421 Used DIY wood platforms here, about 12" high with an approx 10 deg tilt back (to suit room/listening position).
4. Season to taste- although seems to be agreement that, as per Yamaha's recommendation, NS-1000 work best close to the back wall. Imaging and bass reinforcement best in that location for these speakers.

Give Dennydog a shout.He may still have a pair.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Looks like it'll probably be a SS amp with a tube preamp. That seems like the best price/performance combo, and also leaves me the possibility of keeping the SS and integrating it into my main system down the road. I'm hoping to set up a HT/music room in the next house I get, so the amp I get now could be slotted into rears duty (or mono bloc). I did look around at what tube amps were available, but once you start talking 40 wpc and up the prices start climbing out of my budget pretty quickly!...

greg

My recommendation would be to go either full tube or full SS. I've tried tube buffers and tube preamps with SS amps and this was not satisfactory. The soundstage expansion is not enough to rival full tube systems and the loss of pinpoint accuracy and impact will be a disappointment.

At one time, I had a Chinese TAD-60 amp that was rated at 60 wpc with 6550's. It drove the NS-1000M with ease and was good enough to seriously threaten my ex MC275V for sound quality. The TAD-60 was relatively inexpensive at around $600 used. The drawback is that it is Chinese and therefore does not have a service history for reliability like MAC's. The other problem is that they are reputed to run tubes hard so your will have to replace them every few years.

 

[avionic]

MOSFET..:yes: ie. Hitachi-Lateral

 

[Arkay]

Wait wait wait. Did I miss the epic thread where you describe acquiring a 101M? Or did you just think you's slip that one past us?

I just thought I'd slip it past you all. ...












Okay, not quite... I've slipped in a mention of this beast here and there in a few posts over the past two months or so... I thought that was sufficient... at least for now.

Okay, basically, YES, I've got one, but I haven't brought it home yet, and won't for a few more weeks. The deal was agreed a while ago, but consummation was delayed for weeks while the amp was out on loan to someone else. Now it has been returned, and I'm paying for (most of) it this week.

But now my main system is packed up anyway, to keep it safe until I finish dealing with emptying my storage room and tearing the roof off of it (which the government is insisting on, since technically it's an illegal structure that wasn't on the original building plan.)

I won't actually bring the 101M home until that process is finished, which will take several more weeks. There is no point in bringing it home to sit there packed up, anyway; it's safer waiting where it is now, until all the messy stuff is done at home and I'm ready to set up the main system again.

That's why I said "I'm looking forward to..." in my post instead of "I'm enjoying listening to...". The way things are going, I'll probably at least be able to listen to Christmas carols this year through a new (to me) 101M.

I could say more, but I'll save it for a later thread, after I've brought the beast home and hooked it up. In the meantime, I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread channel... since I don't want to hijack this thread!