Yamaha NS500M upgrades? 1000M? JBL L112?

[idan182]

Hi all and greeting from Israel
I'm using these Yamaha NS-500M for very long time along with Proton D1200 + AP1000 gear.
I got them years ago at like 200$ and sold my JBL L110 for almost 600$.
The JBL were beautiful too but I think the 500M's bass sounds better with 12" woofers instead of JBL's 10".
I always wanted the NS-1000M but never heard them live and also cannot be found in my country.
I listen mostly to 80's music, modern and SOME hiphop or electronics. I like to play my music LOUD.

Is almost 2000$ for them including shipping, tax etc really worth it?
are they THAT good comparing the 500M?
In this theard someone said the 500M actually sounds really good because of it's carbon fiber woofer instead of paper of the 1000M
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/yamaha-ns-500m-vs-ns-1000m-the-former-wins.837961/

I can find here JBL L100 Century or L112 in really good condition for about the same price but I'm not sure if it would be such an upgrade.
Is JBL L112 a better speaker than my Yamaha's?

 

[homebrew]

You're asking questions that only you can answer for yourself. The only thing that can be said is the JBL's are more efficient than the Yamahas so they will sound louder than the Yamahas given the same amount of power. Whether or not that's better, it would be up to you.

 

[Chris Brown]

I can find here JBL L100 Century or L112 in really good condition

Ignore the L100. They were fun speakers for their time, but they have a lot of flaws and drawbacks, with drivers that are all-around worse than the drivers in the L112. The value of the L100 mainly comes from their retro vibe as well as nostalgia value from people who grew up listening to them. the L112 on the other-hand is an absolutely fantastic speaker. They have a lot in common with the L110 that you once had. The 033 tweeter in the L110 is very similar to the 044 tweeter in the L112. They are both soft-dome tweeters ("phenolic-impregnated linen"), but the 044 has an extra coating of what is basically aluminum spray-paint on top. The two sound very similar. They are great tweeters that overcame the limitations of the paper-cone tweeters that were used prior to that (such as in the L100), but also lack the slight metallic harshness that comes with the later Titanium-dome tweeters. That puts them in a great spot of being revealing and not veiled-sounding, but also easy to listen to for hours on end. The LE5-10 midrange in the L110 is identical to the LE5-12 midrange in the L112 except for the color of the front face-plate. The L112 uses the 128H woofer which is IMO one of the best vintage JBL woofers. It's the same 12" woofer that was used in the L150, L150A, and 4411, with the black-cone version (128H-1) also used in the 120Ti, 4412, and 4412A. The fact that JBL used the 128H woofer in speakers for over a quarter-century shows you how much faith they had in it. The 128H generally doesn't disappoint when it comes to bass. The L112 should sound pretty much like an L110, but with much better bass, and since you already know what an L110 sounds like, that should help make things easier.

Neither of those Yamaha speakers are going to be able to compete with the L112 in the bass department, especially when listening loud. When it comes to the midrange and treble frequencies however, I would describe them as being "different" rather than better or worse. This is really where preference is going to come into play most. The Yamaha speakers have a very "sweet" sound to them, and only you can decide if that is something you like or not.

 

[idan182]

Thanks for your reply

What about JBL L166? I also found that one here for a bit less of the L112 price

 

[Chris Brown]

Thanks for your reply

What about JBL L166? I also found that one here for a bit less of the L112 price

The L166 is not a bad speaker but in my opinion the L112 is better.

The L166 uses the 122A woofer. The 122A is only rated to handle half the power of the 128H that is in the L112. In addition, the 122A uses an Alnico magnet. When a woofer with an Alnico magnet is overpowered, it can partially demagnetize, and it will stay that way until you take it into a shop to get it re-magnetized. That probably isn't a big deal if you listen at moderate volume but pushing an Alnico woofer close to it's limits would make me nervous. It would also make me nervous not knowing how the previous owner used them. They might already be partially demagnetized before you even buy them... The 128H in the L112 uses a ferrite magnet that is not susceptible to this issue.

The L166 uses the LE5-8 midrange, which is acoustically equivalent to the LE5-12 in the L112 as well as the LE5-10 in the L110. They are all interchangeable. However, in the L110 the crossover between the midrange and tweeter is 4kHz. In the L112 the crossover between the midrange and the tweeter is 3.7kHz. In the L166 the crossover between the midrange and the tweeter is 6kHz! So despite all three speakers having what are essentially identical midrange drivers, the L166 is asking a LOT more out of it's midrange compared to the L110 or L112. The LE5 midrange drivers have a rising response, and so while it can go to 6kHz, it's not ideal. Setting the crossover frequency for the midrange so high can also cause the frequencies in the upper-end of that range to get "beamy", where they sound fine when you are standing right in front of the speaker but not when you move to the sides. The most common reason why the crossover would be set so high is to protect the tweeter, if the tweeter has fairly low power handling, by shifting as much of the lower-treble to the midrange driver as possible. This is also the case in the JBL L65, which has it's crossover between it's LE5 midrange and it's 077 tweeter set at 6.5kHz to protect the 077.

The 066 sounds nice but I don't think that it's any better than the 044, and in my opinion not worth the much higher crossover frequency.

 

[Gustav80swe]

I have L112 and NS-2000. Very different speakers but I like them both. L112 is my favorite JBL speaker so far.

 

[SaturationPt]

Personal experience I feel that the Yamaha NS500M is one of the most balanced vintage speakers. I prefer it to the NS1000M, feel that it is better with voices, just more neutral to me, and I've read others' opinions that agree.

Regarding what JBL or other might be better? You will find different, but "better" is a matter of taste and opinion. The 500M is not a pretty cabinet FWIW, but otherwise exceptional for its era and price.

They did lose the "shootout" with my JVC Super Digifine SX-911WD speakers, perhaps you have access to some of the Japanese luxury-speakers we didn't get here in the US.