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Your thoughts on reissues, is it worth it to track down old/original pressings?

There are good and not-so-good OPs out there.
There are good and not-so-good reissues out there.
It depends on the title and pressing.


That said, MOST of the time I seek out the originals, and find that with MOST pressing, the originals sound better, as long as you can find ones that aren't scratched or damaged or played-to-death (:scratch2:...which amounts to damaged, too! :D)

I make exceptions when I read online that such-and-such modern pressing is really good. Most of the time, I will check online before buying a reissue, because the odds/percentages I find work against them being the best issue. But when enough audio-minded people post that they really like a given pressing, I'll buy it in the new release. For example, I bought a new pressing of Julie London's "Julie is Her Name" after an AKer described it as "stunning"... and I was not disappointed. Similarly, I bought a limited-edition dual LP including a 45 rpm pressing of Procul Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale", after reading that it was the best version ever released... and compared to the other ones I have or have heard, I completely agree, and am glad I bought it.

In general, I'll sometimes take a chance on a new release if it is a "special" one such as a 45 rpm, direct-metal-mastering or recognized name with a good reputation, because those usually don't disappoint, but if it is a "normal" release I nearly always search online before buying.

Hearing A/B demos with original and reissued versions in a couple of showrooms has STOPPED me from buying some of the new LPs, and sent me looking for the originals. "Rhapsodies" is one of those, where my reaction was exactly like what JonL said: the new one didn't sound bad at all, but it was easy to let it be background music and talk over it with my friend who was with me at the time... but when the original was put on, we both immediately stopped talking and started listening, because it had much more emotion to it; it was involving, even captivating, and made you want to just sit and listen. It was hard to pin it down to any one thing (dynamics, detail, soundstage, etc...) but it was unmistakably better in the original version. Just more... involving! Not quite, but almost like the difference between MP3s and redbook CDs, or redbook CDs and SACDs, or redbook CDs and vinyl LPs.

Used records? If it is an expensive rarity in a shop, I'll make sure I really want it before I'll pull out the wallet, and I'll look it over extremely carefully (sometimes under pocket-microscope magnification) to check condition. But since most of my used-audio buys are in the bulk-buy/flea market/used-goods shop category, where records are cheap, I just give them a quick once-over. If I don't see scratches, I'll take the chance, even with dirty records. After all, that's what sinks and VPI machines are for, and some of my best buys have been bargain-priced OP finds like that. With cheap prices, the downside risk is limited and acceptable; the more expensive the purchase, the pickier I'll be... but in all cases, if I'm paying "real" money, then I want to be sure I'm getting a very good recording, hopefully the best one I can get (within reason), whether it is an original or a reissue.
 
I just bought some of those "Collectables" brand reissues on 45 that are brand new. The sound quality seems good, but on some you can hear minor scratches from the source they were recorded from. I mean, I suppose they're ok, but for what I paid for them, I expected better. I thought that these would be good for my jukebox since many have hits on both sides. For the most part, I'm satisfied with them, but if I had to do it over, I likely wouldn't have bought them.
 
I would say you have to keep in mind that this lady is selling original pressings , so it stands to reason that she is going to push original pressings and dog a repress. she has a financial incentive to promote OP's. however there is NO WAY that there is only one record store in Manhattan that sells original pressing records, of course i do not live in NYC and cant be sure but i find it mind boggling that there would be ONE store in new york city. I live in Seattle and have 7 different record stores that specialize in old vinyl in a 5 mile radius from my house ( three are rolling stone magazines "top 25 record stores") keep looking and i am sure you will find a good record store near you.
 
Jeremy is right on both counts: 1. of course she's trying to sell you on her expensive original pressings versus the more common and "amazonable" reissues for cheap; 2. There are plenty of other record stores to get even decent deals on originals in NYC. My faves which you will find me haunting at:
  • Bleecker Street Records (probably most expensive)
  • Bleecker Bob's (when I want something in great condition, they'll usually have it)
  • Midnight Records (you must make an appointment)
  • Academy LPs (East Village, not the Union Square one which sells mostly classical)
  • Gimme Gimme Records (great selection, but most of it is not mint--but plenty good if you don't care about the quality of the album cover)
  • A1 Records (same comment as above)

I agree with another earlier poster, though as far as "reissues" are concerned--it's all about the mastering process. If all someone does is take that latest CD remaster and run it through a vinyl lathe, the results are bound to be disappointing. This is true of reissues or new releases--remastering for vinyl is a must. My own story of OP vs RI: I had an old copy of Soultrane, which sounded good but had enough scratches and pops to make me purchase the reissue I saw at the Jazz Record Center (mostly reissues, but still plenty of originals; but you need to make that place a top haunt if you like Jazz). I bought it and I am extremely happy with it--all the goodness of the old vinyl with none of it's snap crackles and pops...
DT
 
I didn't mention Second Hand Rose, although I do go there occasionally, but only to look through their cheapies--they're a little off-putting and I would not be surprised to discover that was the owner who made the "...not an audiophile" comment...
 
If I may be so bold, not being an audiophile (I swear I'm not - I swear, and I don't need your 12 step programs, either! Get outta my life!!!!) I think they (reissues) are hit or miss. Overall, some of my original presses which were done well at the time, sound absolutely amazing. But a lot of the reissues (the 180g original masters xfers) sound very nice too. What I find most troubling with the reissues is the lack of consistency. I literally return 25-50% of all the presses I buy. It seems the QA is no good anymore. But if you are lucky enough to get a reissue that isn't flawed from manufacturing, storage, or shipping, they can be very nice.
 
I have an original 1964 Rudy Van Gelder-mastered stereo pressing of Coltrane's "A Love Supreme," and there is a noticeable electronic whine throughout both sides, like something in the signal chain was not properly grounded.

Not all original masterings are wonderful.
 
jeremyjustic said:
I would say you have to keep in mind that this lady is selling original pressings , so it stands to reason that she is going to push original pressings and dog a repress. she has a financial incentive to promote OP's. however there is NO WAY that there is only one record store in Manhattan that sells original pressing records, of course i do not live in NYC and cant be sure but i find it mind boggling that there would be ONE store in new york city. I live in Seattle and have 7 different record stores that specialize in old vinyl in a 5 mile radius from my house ( three are rolling stone magazines "top 25 record stores") keep looking and i am sure you will find a good record store near you.
Click to expand...


Of course it isn't the only store that you can find original pressings. Every record store has em up on their walls, and you can even get lucky and find em cheap in the bins. What I meant was, this store specialized in old/original pressings. That's all they sell. And they have bins and bins full of them. I've been to a lot of record stores here, and none other come even close to the collection of originals that this place has.

dtainer- I've been to all of those record stores you mentioned, aside from Midnight Records. I do like Academy, you're talking about the one on 12th and 1st, right? It's strange that you've had good luck at Bleecker Bobs. For me it's been hit or miss, but mostly miss. They sell used LPs for $10-15, and many of them are really beat up and unplayable. I stopped going there because I've had too many disappointments. Maybe I'll give em a try another day.

I think what's been mentioned is true. The master tapes degrade, and so originals have the most genuine audio info, and reissues try to remaster to make up for what was lost by degradation. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

I do envy those of you who aren't in the city, who are apparently finding all of these original pressings for cheap.
 
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This thread has me alittle confused. As I know it:

You have an original pressing (Let's say 1970)
You have another pressing (Let's say 1976) you can call it a re-issue?
You have another pressing (Let's say 1982) you can call it a re-issue?
You than have a re-mastered, and most likely on 180 Gram (Let's say 2009)

Also they will all be differently priced, depending on condition and availability.

Which one are you talking about?
 
Let me emphasize that I am cheap: I will go to Bleecker Bob's or Bleecker St. Records several times without buying anything and then luck onto a $10-$15 VG+ record that I'm looking for. I probably go to one of these record stores once a week, but only buy good deals.

I have probably never spent more than about $25 for a record because in my experience, I eventually find the record I'm looking for somewhere (even if that includes vacations, to Austin mainly!). I do agree with you that getting a really good original pressing in our city is de-pressing (sorry, pun intended), but on the other hand, I find really high quality (VG min.) at some weekly flea markets. There's one at 25th between 6th & Broadway that I've probably found 10 VG or VG+ jazz records at, and stuff I like (Miles Davis, Eric Dolphy, Oscar Peterson, Coltrane, etc.). So far I've only gotten one with a noticeable warp on the entry track (not visible to the eye), but otherwise I've done very well.

Sorry to ramble on past the original question, but I do think that there are some good deals to be had, and stay patient. I'm not a collector and don't care about the cover if the record is good, so I'm happy with the VG. And then, if you don't find it in the original, getting the reissue may not be as bad as you think, especially if you follow the advice from some of the other posters regarding DMM, MoFi, etc.

PS: Did you (or any other NYC tri-state area person) go to the WFMU Record Fair this weekend? I had a few good finds, including a Eric Dolphy double album for $10 in perfect condition!
 
Wasatch said:
This thread has me alittle confused. As I know it:

You have an original pressing (Let's say 1970)
You have another pressing (Let's say 1976) you can call it a re-issue?
You have another pressing (Let's say 1982) you can call it a re-issue?
You than have a re-mastered, and most likely on 180 Gram (Let's say 2009)

Also they will all be differently priced, depending on condition and availability.

Which one are you talking about?
Click to expand...

The reissue I'm talking about would be the one from 2009, in your example. There may be older reissues, some may be good, some bad. But if a record that was recorded in 1970 was reissued in '76, I'm guessing it probably wouldn't be remastered, since the master tape is only 6 years old. If you were to press that same record today, there would certainly be degradation to the point where remastering would be necessary.

That's what I would guess, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
dtainer said:
Let me emphasize that I am cheap: I will go to Bleecker Bob's or Bleecker St. Records several times without buying anything and then luck onto a $10-$15 VG+ record that I'm looking for. I probably go to one of these record stores once a week, but only buy good deals.

I have probably never spent more than about $25 for a record because in my experience, I eventually find the record I'm looking for somewhere (even if that includes vacations, to Austin mainly!). I do agree with you that getting a really good original pressing in our city is de-pressing (sorry, pun intended), but on the other hand, I find really high quality (VG min.) at some weekly flea markets. There's one at 25th between 6th & Broadway that I've probably found 10 VG or VG+ jazz records at, and stuff I like (Miles Davis, Eric Dolphy, Oscar Peterson, Coltrane, etc.). So far I've only gotten one with a noticeable warp on the entry track (not visible to the eye), but otherwise I've done very well.

Sorry to ramble on past the original question, but I do think that there are some good deals to be had, and stay patient. I'm not a collector and don't care about the cover if the record is good, so I'm happy with the VG. And then, if you don't find it in the original, getting the reissue may not be as bad as you think, especially if you follow the advice from some of the other posters regarding DMM, MoFi, etc.

PS: Did you (or any other NYC tri-state area person) go to the WFMU Record Fair this weekend? I had a few good finds, including a Eric Dolphy double album for $10 in perfect condition!
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the flea market tip, I'll check it out.

Missed the WFMU thing, I had no idea it was going on. I have to stay up on the latest vinyl happenings here in the city.

Another great cheap used record store is Academy in Williamsburg. I've always liked that place, cause the price is usually right. What's the deal with Midnight Records? Appointment only?
 
I'm out to find original pressings. I can order new pressings off Amazon and other sites all day long, but I enjoy the thrill of the hunt.

I also don't see the point in buying a 20 dollar record that probably mastered from a cd when I can go to a thrift store and find an original for 2 bucks.
 
Thrill of the hunt indeed!

Academy in Williamsburg is good, though I don't usually slum it to the outerboroughs ;)

Actually, speaking of outerboroughs, Rockaway Records in Far Rockaway is a pretty good place. I found myself out there once and popped in. Good selection, cheap mostly, with the usual high-priced fetchers (Blow Up Soundtrack: $75...).

Midnight Records used to be an actual store on 23rd St. when I first moved here, and then the rent got too expensive for the guy and he ended up doing it out of his apartment. It's still on 23rd St., but it's cramped and it's worth it to give him a list to see if he has what you want. You like rare rockabilly, 60's garage, 70's glam, and punk rock? He has it. I think the guy caters to wealthy Japanese collectors, mostly. A few years ago I rounded out my vinyl Electric Prunes collection--he had them all, and they were relatively cheap (less than $10 each).
 
Fopp said:
The reissue I'm talking about would be the one from 2009, in your example. There may be older reissues, some may be good, some bad. But if a record that was recorded in 1970 was reissued in '76, I'm guessing it probably wouldn't be remastered, since the master tape is only 6 years old. If you were to press that same record today, there would certainly be degradation to the point where remastering would be necessary.

That's what I would guess, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

hey fopp,

you are absolutely correct. "remastering" means that the album "master" is taken and re-equalized and re-compressed and then pressed and called a "reissue". an "original master" (pre- CD era) is the original tape(s) that have been mastered from the original mixed tapes.

i have been a recording engineer before the recording standard was digital and everything was recorded to tape and to this day i still prefer to record to analog tape in contrast to 99% of my peers who have completely abandoned analog tape in preference to the cheap and convenient digital format. furthermore they are relying on digital processing over analog processing (ie: compressors and equalizers).

so for clarification for those who are not familiar with the entire process (and i am describing the old school method before digital).
1st process is to record the musicians to the multitrack tape. mulittrack meaning more than 2 tracks where all the individual instruments are recorded to separate tracks. for example if the drums had individual mics, then the snare mic would be on one track the bass drum mic would be another track, the guitar mic would be on another track and so forth and so on...

2nd process is to take all of those tracks and "mixdown" to a stereo analog tape. for each song, the "mixer" has control of all the different levels, eq's, compression on every single instrument (or track). then when all of the tweaking of levels, dynamics, eq'ing, etc are just right, we record it to the 2 track (stereo) tape machine. and they becomes the master mix tapes .

3rd process is now to take those 2 track (stereo) "master" mix tapes to the mastering facility and get it ready to be pressed to vinyl. this will involve the final eq and an overall compression. the eq'ing in this process (in general) is just a slight tweak to the top, mid or bottom. the mix tapes should be close to what the final product should sound like but the mastering stage is the icing on the cake. it's like the final detail to an already finished product. as well, the overall level of the music is set to the RIAA standard(s) so there is continuity for the consumer. and the final compression stage is so that any peak transients in the bass (in particular) would not make the needle jump off of the record or blow out your speakers or your ears, for that matter...

so the original pressing is from that original, original mastered 2 track tape. now as time goes by depending on how well organized a particular record company was at cataloging and preserving the original tapes you might end up with a "safety" copy of the OM. someone might have misplaced the OM and you have a copy that is one generation away. afterall it's all human beings handling these things and human error plays a big part over time. now the record company is a corporation (let's not forget that part) and the final product doesn't matter as much as the quarterly statements. so the "average" consumer may not be able to tell that there isn't as much depth or doesn't have the same ambiance. then its a domino effect after that...

why do you think the CD format came about? how do we get the consumer to buy the same product again? by telling them that it will last a lifetime and it won't skip. in reality it was costing too much to press good quality vinyl and they needed a cheap alternative...and let's put on some alternate versions to really entice the consumer (me included :) )

sorry i think i've started ranting...:music:

but this is why vinyl is here to stay. people like you on this forum who know better...thanks for listening.

ciao,

russ
 
dtainer said:
Actually, speaking of outerboroughs, Rockaway Records in Far Rockaway is a pretty good place. I found myself out there once and popped in. Good selection, cheap mostly, with the usual high-priced fetchers (Blow Up Soundtrack: $75...).
Click to expand...

There's a record store out there? (I was born in Far Rockaway...)
There's a Rockaway Records in Los Angeles too, y'know.

I've gotten some great deals at all three Academy locations, including some good vintage jazz. My favorite store(s) in NYC.
 
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There's also a used record store in Bayside, Queens though I've not yet been there. A small bit farther out on LI is Mr. Cheapo's used records, CDs, DVDs, games, etc. Good store, everything I've bought from them has been perfect and they have a satisfaction guarantee.
 
beatcomber said:
What an absurd statement to make! Sheesh.
Click to expand...

Yes, it really is. Which store are we talking about exactly?

agypsy said:
hey fopp,

you are absolutely correct. "remastering" means that the album "master" is taken and re-equalized and re-compressed and then pressed and called a "reissue". an "original master" (pre- CD era) is the original tape(s) that have been mastered from the original mixed tapes.
Click to expand...

This is not always true, especially right now. Some reissue labels currently make new lps from the original master tapes.

I understand why reissues have gotten such a bad name, I've had more than few that sucked. However, some of the best sounding lps I own are reissues, many of those jazz titles. It's a hit and miss thing, but to say that original pressings are always better than reissues is flat out wrong.
 
Reading about the original poster's dialogue with the record store lady reminded me of that High Fidelity quote:

Barry's Customer: Hi, do you have the song "I Just Called To Say I Love You?" It's for my daughter's birthday.
Barry: Yea we have it.
Barry's Customer: Great, Great, can I have it?
Barry: No, no, you can't.
Barry's Customer: Why not?
Barry: Well, it's sentimental tacky crap. Do we look like the kind of store that sells I Just Called to Say I Love You? Go to the mall.
 
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