A few thoughts on the Aqua La Voce S2

[belgianbrain]

Recently I had the opportunity to try out a new Aqua La Voce S2.

I thought I’d share my impressions of this DAC.

First, background: I use a Lampizator. I’ve been following the Lampizator since long before he had a commercial product. I modified CD players. I built some of his kits. Then, when he offered an affordable DAC, the Amber, I picked one up right away. I got one of the first Ambers, so it is different than what is selling today. It is not Sabre based, it is based on the same mystery chipset he uses in his Level 4 line, I believe. I have upgraded it. The analog section has a CLCLC power supply filter section. I rolled tubes to find the best for my taste, currently two top of the line military grade NOS Siemens tubes sit inside. The output caps are Duelunds. This DAC sounds awesome. I love it.

Now for the La Voce. It is good. It is very, very good. It very nearly ties the Lampizator. In fact, maybe it does. Sometimes I will hear a detail in a song that I did not hear with the Lampizator. But, the Lampizator has a quality that I cherish. There is a spooky reality to human voice and piano that I cannot quite match with the La Voce – it is close, but not quite where the Lampizator is.

Now, when I look at the circuit board of the La Voce, a red flag waves at me. IMHO, one of the most important things after the analog stage is the quality of the coupling caps. I see RIFA in the Aqua La Voce. This is a good but relatively low cost capacitor to other audiophile grade caps. To be fair, I don’t think anything in this price range is offering much more. Even my Lampizator had similar caps as it was delivered. But still, It makes me wonder....what if I spent $200 on the output caps?

I could easily make my Lampizator sound worse than the La Voce by downgrading the output caps or the tubes. It wouldn’t take much. So I stare at the La Voce and I wonder….how would this sound with Duelunds or Jupiter Copper Paper and Wax output caps? Maybe all that’s needed is a bypass for the RIFA? Hmmmmm…..my fingers are getting itchy.

 

[seminole54]

Would the La Scala be a fairer comparison to the Lampi in terms of design?

 

[belgianbrain]

Well, it uses tubes, but that doesn't necessarily mean better than transistors. I see the same Rifas in the LaScala, so...

 

[seminole54]

Nevermind, you don't want input or questions.

 

[belgianbrain]

Sorry, I don't follow your response.

I'm just throwing my thoughts out there...my point was that the La Voce is in the same league as my Lampizator, and it wouldn't take much to equal or maybe even better it. The output coupling caps seem like a primary target to achieve this. Just looking for thoughts.

 

[pete_mac]

I've yet to hear a Lampizator in any form, but I certainly like the sound of the La Voce S2. It's one of the best that I've heard.

 

[BeerCan]

Well, it uses tubes, but that doesn't necessarily mean better than transistors. I see the same Rifas in the LaScala, so...

you see rifa coupling caps in the LaScala?

 

[belgianbrain]

I believe so. For the LaScala I only have pictures, but there are four big blue cubes near the tubes. I'm assuming those are the output coupling caps.

 

[belgianbrain]

UPDATE:

So, the owner of this fabulous La Voce gave me the thumbs up to tinker with his output coupling caps.

The RIFAs were 3.3uF, but IMHO that's overkill. I think companies do that because some users might be using an amp or preamp with a really low input impedance. I use 0.47uF in my Lampizator and the bass is just fine.

So, I removed the RIFAs and replaced them with 1uF Jupiter copper foil paper and wax caps. Just for kicks, I bypassed that with a 0.01uF Vishay Roderstien MKP 1837.



The voice is back. The piano is back. The music is in the room and it is real.

I spent two hours switching back and forth between the La Voce and my Lampizator and I cannot tell the difference. I detect a very minor difference here or there, but there is now no way I could distinguish in a blind test, which is interesting because the two DACS are very different beasts.

Now the Lampizator is broken in. The La Voce and the new caps are not, so the potential is there for the La Voce to improve.

All I can say is, this is one phenomenal DAC and the manufacturer has got to offer upgraded output caps as an option because it takes this DAC to another level.

 

[BeerCan]

I believe so. For the LaScala I only have pictures, but there are four big blue cubes near the tubes. I'm assuming those are the output coupling caps.

You are right those 4 caps are rifa, but I don't think they are coupling caps, I think they are part of a protection circuit.. I think the LaScala is direct coupled. FWIW every other cap I spy in the LaScala is higher grade. I can take pics if you want.

 

[belgianbrain]

Pictures will only help so much. One can't be sure without having the unit in front of you with a multimeter in hand.

I'm no tube expert, but with tubes (as in my Lampizator), the output signal is usually riding on 50-200 VDC, which needs the DC component taken out of it, so I would think it needs coupling caps somewhere unless it is using transformers or some other method.

Good coupling caps are typically large, and those RIFAs are about the largest caps I see in the pictures...

 

[BeerCan]

Pictures will only help so much. One can't be sure without having the unit in front of you with a multimeter in hand.

I'm no tube expert, but with tubes (as in my Lampizator), the output signal is usually riding on 50-200 VDC, which needs the DC component taken out of it, so I would think it needs coupling caps somewhere unless it is using transformers or some other method.

Good coupling caps are typically large, and those RIFAs are about the largest caps I see in the pictures...

There are transformers in it but I am pretty sure those are I/V conversion.

My understanding is that this is direct coupled with mosfets, I would suspect that the rifa's are there as a protection in the event a transistor or tube fails, or the unit is started with no tubes. If you look at the board you can see 2 relays on the analog side that would open when a specific voltage is reached that would send the signal through the protection.

I may be totally misunderstanding this design and reserve the righ to be wrong

 

[belgianbrain]

Interesting. Maybe one day I'll get my hands on a LaScala to test out and report on. If there are output coupling caps used somewhere in it, together with tube rolling, I'm sure there could be room for improvement.

 

[BeerCan]

Interesting. Maybe one day I'll get my hands on a LaScala to test out and report on. If there are output coupling caps used somewhere in it, together with tube rolling, I'm sure there could be room for improvement.

It would be worth it. It is one of my favorite DAC's I have ever had in my possesion

 

[belgianbrain]

I thought you guys would appreciate some photos of the La Voce S2 with Jupiter Copper Foil Paper & Wax caps.

 

[belgianbrain]

Well, time has passed. I have listened to both DACs extensively. I even recently acquired an AudioPhilleo USB to SPDIF converter that supplies a high precision SPDIF signal to each DAC and removes the variability in USB implementation quality from the comparison. The Audiophilleo made a minor improvement, but I think the input implementation in both the Lampizator and the La Voce is quite good because the improvement with the Audiophilleo is very small.

These two DACS are indeed very close, but now that I have listened to both extensively, which do I choose for an extended listening session?

The Lampizator.

Why? It's hard to express. After spending a couple of months with both DACS, after the modification I did to the La Voce, I can now tell the difference between them. The Lampizator just seems to have more body and soul where it counts with voice, piano, etc. I know Lampizators seem to be a polarizing product and some people hate them, but I love mine.

I thought you'd all find my update interesting. Now keep in mind, my Amber isn't a Sabre based Amber like the current lineup. You'd probably have to buy a L4 to get a Lampizator that sounds like mine. Just, FYI. And, of course, that makes the La Voce the less expensive one in this comparison. And I could easily make the Lampizator sound just like the La Voce by choosing different tubes, so this is a fairly thin difference.

Anyway, the La Voce will move on to its owner who was so gracious to leave it with me for a couple of months and the search begins for the next candidate to take on the Lampi.

 

[SlowikPL]

I`m an owner of the Aqua la Scala. Does anybody know for sure if those capacitors are the coupling capacitors? I have some 2,2uF Duelund CAST capacitors leftover.

 

[SoNic67]

Probably your brain got used to the harmonics that Lampa puts out (second order?) so much that the clean sound is not "good" enough.
It's a matter of getting used to something, similar like staring so long to a blue dot on white paper until it disappears, brain compensates for certain constant stimuli. And then when you look on a white piece of paper you see the complimentary color of that dot.
On the other hand, since La Scala is NOS, it is possible that what you hear and don't like there are the aliasing products.
That's why I first measure THD+N for all my audio devices, and if the measurements are good, then I go ahead and listen to them. No need to "train" my brain for distortions.

PS: I think the bypass capacitors do more than most of people know, I am adding them on all my devices. Sometimes, like on my Denon DVD-3910, they have bypassed the caps only the 2ch outputs (those also have dual DAC's too, in mono config), but not the 5.1ch ones!