Possibly, but an expensive matched one will most likely sound better than the inexpensive one set up correctly.
How important is the cartridge in the signal chain?
- Thread starter Old Driver
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Because the inner part is 30% of a record.
If 30% of a record sounds different because of a stylus, then…………..
I’m not going to engage with you on this anymore.
cafe latte
Addicted Member
Then don't, but it has been proven and it is why stylus with smaller minor radius were invented in the first place. Inner groove distortion and what causes it is very well understood.
Chris
Belfaborac
New Member
I kind of agree with katana, but only kind of. First off, to declare a particular amount of $$$ as a cut-off is obviously ludicrous. That would have to imply that all manufacturers, from hobbyists making cartridges in their garage or shed to large firms like Audio-Technica, are working under the same financial constraints and economies of scale. That's so obviously untrue that it shouldn't really need mentioning.
That said, there's certainly a limit to what sonic goodness and fidelity one can extract from a cartridge - and that limit doesn't require a stratospheric price. Nor can the limit be extended by the use of rare materials, semi-precious stones (think Koetsu) or limited production runs; those serve only to increase the price and prestige of the product.
From my own experience I have no problem stating that my Audio-Technica ART7 and 9 are just as good as my VdH Colibri, Benz TR, or Koetsu Urushi, despite the very significant differences in price. They certainly sound different (very different where the Koetsu is concerned), but that's not the same as better, although a great many people seem to confuse "I like this better" with "this is objectively better".
Some believe that the front (cartridge and turntable) and back ends (speakers) have a significant influence on the overall sound characteristics and texture of any system.
I kinda tend to agree.
Belfaborac
New Member
There's really no doubt that the speakers and the cartridge have more distortion than any other item in a typical sound chain and therefore more impact on the final sound. Of the two the speakers will easily be more impactful in terms of the overall sound, unless the cartridge is very....unusual.
PS: providing, of course, that both turntable and arm are fairly competent and don't degrade the sound of the cartridge additionally. If they do then it's fairly difficult to know where to lay the blame.
PS: providing, of course, that both turntable and arm are fairly competent and don't degrade the sound of the cartridge additionally. If they do then it's fairly difficult to know where to lay the blame.
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well you should
What should a turntable do most importantly to reproduce music?
Correct and stable speed.
And for that the correlation W&F vs price is is poor..here PEAK wow is shown, not DIN nor WRMS. The plots here show the WOW= slow speed variation, think a cassette player with poor battery
=
30 000 Euro
It is as bad speed stability as cheapest turntable in the store 500 Euro
750 Euro
Had to expand the scale 3 times to for the speed variation of this 5000 Euro TT
For reference I show the Technics 1200G here, price when it was measured, the lower models are very similar
So do not buy a turntable without a speed stability check
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There is much more than just stable speed. All the stable speed isn't worth a flip if the table isn't able to deal with external and internal influences, and there are other issues as well. I really don't need any education regarding turntables and what it takes to reproduce an analogue signal, I been at it my entire life, and have plenty of tables that are very capable.
here is the cartridge measured frequency response. 3.4db diffrence at 20kHzHere is 2 different cartridges on to different turntables, which do you prefer if any?
VIOLIN AT540ML VS ATOC9ML2.wav
drive.google.com
Belfaborac
New Member
It's certainly an interesting take to declare oneself ignorant and at the same time decry others as self-ordained experts. Kudos, I suppose.
Belfaborac
New Member
Absolutely; you should keep it up!
One thing you might consider discarding though, is the notion that having expensive gear in the sig entitles one to respect or esteem. It really doesn't.
One thing you might consider discarding though, is the notion that having expensive gear in the sig entitles one to respect or esteem. It really doesn't.
My contention is it is entirely ludicrous to pick a price point and claim from that point anything else is basically a waste of money because it won't be any better. And then to post that speed stability is the only property that really is important with a turn table. It literally makes the assumption and is a mockery of anyone that has spent above his arbitrary price point, I for one am not buying it.
I won't spend more time on this people can believe what they want.
I won't spend more time on this people can believe what they want.
Of course I know that speed is only one parameter, and that many other factors contribute to sound and performance.
But The simple point is that you do not know what you get if you do not investigate carefully. Price is not a parameter that guarantee quality , I see 100 000 usd turntables using unsuitable rubber belts that makes it sound like a fisher price toy turntable.! Without pointing to these flaws the Boutique makers will not improve.
Anyone can check their TT easily, and that should, a W&F above x% is quite audible too. There is a test posted on this forum for audible threshold
Try this, result depend on music of course , on single tones the threshold is much lower
But The simple point is that you do not know what you get if you do not investigate carefully. Price is not a parameter that guarantee quality , I see 100 000 usd turntables using unsuitable rubber belts that makes it sound like a fisher price toy turntable.! Without pointing to these flaws the Boutique makers will not improve.
Anyone can check their TT easily, and that should, a W&F above x% is quite audible too. There is a test posted on this forum for audible threshold
Try this, result depend on music of course , on single tones the threshold is much lower
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flavio81
Turntable technician
In my experience, considering I know how to setup a TT correctly and how to make sure everything, including tonearm bearings, are OK, my cartridge have styli in good shape, and I have a record cleaning machine:
Every time i got IGD the culprit was the record itself: Worn or damaged record. Not the stylus being spherical, elliptical, whatnot.
Yes, you play the same record with a Microline stylus and it sounds fine. This just confirms the record was damaged. Sometimes i've got a copy of the same record in better condition, then it plays with no IGD with a regular conical or elliptical stylus.
I have been trying and studying vinyl playback from the past 28 years or so, and so far all evidence i've had points out that 9 out of 10 records out there can be traced with no problems with a 0.6 mil spherical stylus. When the record is damaged, a line contact stylus helps a ton, but not because of the smaller minor radius, but because of the larger contact area.
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Cartridge will make a big difference but if the rest of the chain isn't up to par it's sort of a lost cause. Who ever said $500 carts were the limit I cannot agree with this. I wasn't in this class until a couple years ago and the difference was mind blowing. I'm not justifying my expensive purchases, because both expensive cart and phono pre were BarterTown purchases at well below market prices.
flavio81
Turntable technician
We got exactly the same results, although I really didn't apply myself: I used too quiet a volume.
I guess this is linear (unweighted) frequency modulation. a turntable with linear, unweighted FM of 0.2% might sound really well depending on what is the modulation frequency.
