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How important is the cartridge in the signal chain?

Old Driver

Old Driver

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
I‘ve been streaming and playing CDs for awhile now and decided to give vinyl a try.
I was lucky enough to run across a rather rare Tannoy Micro Seiki TM 44DD full manual play turntable. After a good cleaning and tune up it works great.
It came with an Ortofon FF-15XE/II. Not wanting to take a chance on the condition of the old stylus, I replaced it with a new one from Amazon.
I’m pleased with the sound but, I’m beginning to hear the little evil voice in my head, “if you upgrade the cartridge to something more modern, more expensive, maybe moving magnet, might REALLY sound better”.
Is newer better? If so, any recommendations that would be in line with my mid-tier turntable?
I’m running the Tannoy Micro Seiki turntable through my McIntosh C37 preamp that has an excellent phono stage built in and can accommodate moving magnet cartridges as well.
Thoughts?
 
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whoaru99 said:
It always makes playing the record so much easier with good cartilage. ;)

IMO, anything electromechanical in the chain like cartridges and speakers are very high in the chain of importance.
Click to expand...
Does the quality tier of the turntable have any bearing on the wise purchase of the cartridge? Will a high end cartridge on my Micro Seiki sound great or is that just overkill.
Is there a rule of thumb for quality matching the cartridge to the turntable?
 
Old Driver said:
Does the quality tier of the turntable have any bearing on the wise purchase of the cartridge? Will a high end cartridge on my Micro Seiki sound great or is that just overkill.
Is there a rule of thumb for quality matching the cartridge to the turntable?
Click to expand...
How much high end do you want to go?

I think an AT-VM540ML or an entry level MC would be the upper limit on what to sensibly put on your turntable. Something more expensive than that would be a waste of money IMO, that money would better go in upgrading the turntable.

Mind you, the VM540ML is a very good cartridge, able to give really good sound.
 
I choose an AT-VM540ML for my TECHNICS SL-1200G :

TcZgQb-P1180483.jpg


Would it bring an improvement if I shifted to the AT-VM740xML ? :idea:

Oh, and what do mean by cartilage ? Sorry, I'm not a Audiophilophysiotherapist... :oops:

T
 
Old Driver said:
I‘ve been streaming and playing CDs for awhile now and decided to give vinyl a try.
I was lucky enough to run across a rather rare Tannoy Micro Seiki TM 44DD full manual play turntable. After a good cleaning and tune up it works great.
It came with an Ortofon FF-15XE/II. Not wanting to take a chance on the condition of the old stylus, I replaced it with a new one from Amazon.
I’m pleased with the sound but, I’m beginning to hear the little evil voice in my head, “if you upgrade the cartridge to something more modern, more expensive, maybe moving magnet, might REALLY sound better”.
Is newer better? If so, any recommendations that would be in line with my mid-tier turntable?
I’m running the Tannoy Micro Seiki turntable through my McIntosh C37 preamp that has an excellent phono stage built in and can accommodate moving magnet cartridges as well.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Just my opinion, but I don't hear differences in cartridges. They're just little speakers outputting an electrical signal instead of inputting.

I DO hear a drastic difference in stylus and cantilever. I just fixed up a Thorens for my uncle and he had the ATVM95 nude eliptical and I can hear a drastic difference between this and the conical on the same cartridge. Neither sounds bad, but they are different

a lot of aftermarket styli on very good cartridges make those cartridges sound like turds
 
I’ve noticed big differences in sound among cartridges (MM / MC) on my Denon TT with C22 MKIV phono preamp.

***
For a minute there, I was worried that I had been completely neglecting the “cartilage” in my system. Then I started thinking about the interstitial areas—also neglected—of my stereo and listening environment. Phew!
 
Old Driver said:
Will a high end cartridge on my Micro Seiki sound great or is that just overkill
Click to expand...
There is a point where the better cartridge will not show itself on a lower grade. Turntable. I had an original project carbon debut and started with a Ortofon Red and then upgraded to an Blue and there was a definite upgrade in the sound quality. So at this point I went ahead and got the Ortofon Bronze, and I Heard little to no difference from the Blue. I believe this was due to the grade of the turntable I was using.

I'd first find out what the compliance value of the tone arm is. Basically, find out if your tone arm is a high mass or low mass. Now at this point you'll know what compliance value you need in your cartridge. Then just look at cartridges that meet the compliance that your arm needs.
 
DeadTrader said:
There is a point where the better cartridge will not show itself on a lower grade. Turntable. I had an original project carbon debut and started with a Ortofon Red and then upgraded to an Blue and there was a definite upgrade in the sound quality. So at this point I went ahead and got the Ortofon Bronze, and I Heard little to no difference from the Blue. I believe this was due to the grade of the turntable I was using.

I'd first find out what the compliance value of the tone arm is. Basically, find out if your tone arm is a high mass or low mass. Now at this point you'll know what compliance value you need in your cartridge. Then just look at cartridges that meet the compliance that your arm needs.
Click to expand...

curtisw99 said:
Just my opinion, but I don't hear differences in cartridges. They're just little speakers outputting an electrical signal instead of inputting.

I DO hear a drastic difference in stylus and cantilever. I just fixed up a Thorens for my uncle and he had the ATVM95 nude eliptical and I can hear a drastic difference between this and the conical on the same cartridge. Neither sounds bad, but they are different

a lot of aftermarket styli on very good cartridges make those cartridges sound like turds
Click to expand...

DeadTrader said:
There is a point where the better cartridge will not show itself on a lower grade. Turntable. I had an original project carbon debut and started with a Ortofon Red and then upgraded to an Blue and there was a definite upgrade in the sound quality. So at this point I went ahead and got the Ortofon Bronze, and I Heard little to no difference from the Blue. I believe this was due to the grade of the turntable I was using.

I'd first find out what the compliance value of the tone arm is. Basically, find out if your tone arm is a high mass or low mass. Now at this point you'll know what compliance value you need in your cartridge. Then just look at cartridges that meet the compliance that your arm needs.
Click to expand...
Deadtrader,
Thanks for the input. You learn something new every day. I had no idea tonearm mass design could play a part in cartridge selection. I Googled my Tannoy Micro Seiki turntable via their AI and this is what I got:

The tonearm on the Tannoy-branded Micro Seiki units (often mirroring the Micro Seiki DD-1 / 44DD build) is a medium-mass arm (roughly 14 grams effective mass including the standard headshell), bridging the gap between high and low mass.

Tonearm Mass Details
    • Effective Mass: ~14g with the standard headshell.
    • Classification: Medium mass (often versatile enough to handle a wide range of vintage cartridges).
    • Cartridge Matching: Works best with medium-compliance cartridges, though it handles high-compliance and moderately low-compliance options well.
 
krautmaster said:
For an old 70's turntable the AT-VM540ML is an excellent choice, but their VM740xML is even better : it has a threaded aluminum body and better wires that deal with high capacitance better (not as bright).

https://www.audio-technica.com/en/ ...o-technica.com/en/at-vm740xml[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
krautmaster said:
Krautmaster,
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Here goes!
Just ordered the VM740xML. Thanks all for the advice.
 
Old Driver said:
Here goes!
Just ordered the VM740xML. Thanks all for the advice.
Click to expand...
I think for a MM cart you did well, but unlike others I think you would be willing to hear a noticeable difference with the MC ATOC9MXL cart. It is a moving Coil cart but I think your Mcintosh supports them. I use them and I also have the VM740XML, but to my ears the MC is much more favorable.

I don't think your table is to low of quality to be able to benefit from that MC cart. But to mount $2000 dollar carts and above I would start with a better table. Keeping things in perspective is wise.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I think for a MM cart you did well, but unlike others I think you would be willing to hear a noticeable difference with the MC ATOC9MXL cart. It is a moving Coil cart but I think your Mcintosh supports them. I use them and I also have the VM740XML, but to my ears the MC is much more favorable.

I don't think your table is to low of quality to be able to benefit from that MC cart. But to mount $2000 dollar carts and above I would start with a better table. Keeping things in perspective is wise.
Click to expand...
I think so too, but I couldn't explain the price versus the chosen VM740XML to myself, especially concidering the higher 'echelon' of spending it opens when looking 'what's next' in the MC world. Still tempted to go with the VM745xML as a next choice for myself by the way.
 
curtisw99 said:
Just my opinion, but I don't hear differences in cartridges. They're just little speakers outputting an electrical signal instead of inputting.

I DO hear a drastic difference in stylus and cantilever. I just fixed up a Thorens for my uncle
Click to expand...

Very interesting post. I think the cantilever has a lot of influence, IMO perhaps the most important component within a cartridge.

Regarding the stylus tip itself, as long as it is low mass, the difference it will make will depend on a record. A worn record will sound amazingly well with an advanced (i.e. Microline) stylus, but most brand new records will probably sound very similar between an advanced stylus tip vs an elliptical or conical.


curtisw99 said:
and he had the ATVM95 nude eliptical and I can hear a drastic difference between this and the conical on the same cartridge. Neither sounds bad, but they are different
Click to expand...

Yes, but the nude ellptical (EN, versus theconical (C):
- is nude mounted (lower mass)
- doesn't have a big blob of glue, unlike the C (lower mass for the EN)
and most importantly:
- has a different, better, cantilever alloy(!). You can compare them visually and you'll see the cantilever material differs between the EN and the C.

So the differences are not just on the stylus tip cut itself.

curtisw99 said:
a lot of aftermarket styli on very good cartridges make those cartridges sound like turds
Click to expand...
+1000
 
Apreggiator said:
I think so too, but I couldn't explain the price versus the chosen VM740XML to myself, especially concidering the higher 'echelon' of spending it opens when looking 'what's next' in the MC world. Still tempted to go with the VM745xML as a next choice for myself by the way.
Click to expand...
Be aware that the 745xML has a boron cantilever and you have to be VERY careful with those as they are brittle and break easily - I broke the one off my old OC9xML with just a tiny muscle spasm and there went $600 down the drain.
 
tubelectron said:
I choose an AT-VM540ML for my TECHNICS SL-1200G :

TcZgQb-P1180483.jpg


Would it bring an improvement if I shifted to the AT-VM740xML ? :idea:

Oh, and what do mean by cartilage ? Sorry, I'm not a Audiophilophysiotherapist... :oops:

T
Click to expand...
I had the 740xML on my SL-1300G but thought it could handle an even better cartridge, so the 740xML is now on my SL-1200GR2 in my office and for the 1300G I bought the new AT33xMLD Moving Coil cart which is magnificent and doesn't cost an arm and leg like a lot of MC carts do (it has an aluminum cantilever).
002.jpg
 
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krautmaster said:
Be aware that the 745xML has a boron cantilever and you have to be VERY careful with those as they are brittle and break easily - I broke the one off my old OC9xML with just a tiny muscle spasm and there went $600 down the drain.
Click to expand...
Good to know. If anybody could carelessly break it due to pilot error, it would be me. So noted!
 
krautmaster said:
Be aware that the 745xML has a boron cantilever and you have to be VERY careful with those as they are brittle and break easily - I broke the one off my old OC9xML with just a tiny muscle spasm and there went $600 down the drain.
Click to expand...
That sucks... :(
I wouldn't want to see 330$ go down the drain either (with the VM745xML).
 
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