Is HDCD worth it?
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Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
In my experience, thus far, no. The whole point of the HD experience, assuming it truly is engineered for such, is the openess and detail. The idea, if you read any of Yamaha's literature about surround, is to capture the experience of the "environment". Yamaha engineers traveled to all sorts of venues, studying and measuring sound affects in a large variety of environments. The idea was to duplicate the affects of those environments with surround. However, the recording and respective engineering had to be free of doctoring and rely heavily on sufficient microphones and placement to allow the surround system to do it's job. It's all theory of course, but some of my DVD audio and SACD audio rival any stereo recording I've listened to. Remember I said some, not all. For the ones that are hybrid I could listen in both methods and for the most part didn't detect much difference, only when the engineering (original source) lent itself well to surround.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
HDCD's have nothing to do with surround.
HDCD means: High Definition Compatible Digital
Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia.
HDCD provides several digital features, which the audio mastering engineer controls at his/her own discretion. They include
Dynamic range compression and expansion, with which virtually 4 more bits of dynamic range can be added to the musical signal.
Precision digital interpolation filtering with multiple modes of operation, which can reduce alias distortion and temporal smearing, resulting in a more natural, open, and accurate sound reproduction.
HDCD means: High Definition Compatible Digital
Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia.
HDCD provides several digital features, which the audio mastering engineer controls at his/her own discretion. They include
Dynamic range compression and expansion, with which virtually 4 more bits of dynamic range can be added to the musical signal.
Precision digital interpolation filtering with multiple modes of operation, which can reduce alias distortion and temporal smearing, resulting in a more natural, open, and accurate sound reproduction.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
I'll agree my response was inaccurate as it specifically relates to HDCD. Interesting enough it's owned my Mickeysoft, who lost one battle pushing HD-DVD.
I understand what it "provides", however, my understanding is you still need a "HD" capable receiver/amp or Player to take advantage of this.
Seems to me the OP should investigate the availability and future for HDCD before investing in either a receiver (plays more than just HDCD) or player that plays HDCD. No point making an investment in something that could be dated.
I understand what it "provides", however, my understanding is you still need a "HD" capable receiver/amp or Player to take advantage of this.
Seems to me the OP should investigate the availability and future for HDCD before investing in either a receiver (plays more than just HDCD) or player that plays HDCD. No point making an investment in something that could be dated.
Rodzilla
Super Member
my rotel 1072 does HDCD,i have several encoded discs...they all sound excellent,but they are just plain excellent sounding discs to start with,even on non HDCD players...
HDCD was a bit of an odd thing...the reason many hardware makers adopted it was not because of the wealth of software but because at it's introduction the hardware included simply the best digital filter chip available...the required precision for decoding HDCD paid off playing non HDCD discs through it as well,it's a very high performance part,better than it needs to be for redbook CD audio.
the same is true of the encoder used in studios...many discs that light up the HDCD light on equipped players,don't actually use any or all of it's real capabilities...there are cases of the system being used for it's high performance processing alone...i have a couple discs that trigger the light,but are not labeled as HDCD in any way
the discs are out there,not common exactly but not rare.but i wouldn't base a purchasing decision on whether a player included it or not,if you have HDCD disc's they likely sound good on any player and the difference with decoding is not likely to be as large as the difference between them and a run of the mill CD already is on your current player..in my opnion HDCD discs get made by people who give a crap how it sounds to start with,and that's 95% of the end result right there
HDCD was a bit of an odd thing...the reason many hardware makers adopted it was not because of the wealth of software but because at it's introduction the hardware included simply the best digital filter chip available...the required precision for decoding HDCD paid off playing non HDCD discs through it as well,it's a very high performance part,better than it needs to be for redbook CD audio.
the same is true of the encoder used in studios...many discs that light up the HDCD light on equipped players,don't actually use any or all of it's real capabilities...there are cases of the system being used for it's high performance processing alone...i have a couple discs that trigger the light,but are not labeled as HDCD in any way
the discs are out there,not common exactly but not rare.but i wouldn't base a purchasing decision on whether a player included it or not,if you have HDCD disc's they likely sound good on any player and the difference with decoding is not likely to be as large as the difference between them and a run of the mill CD already is on your current player..in my opnion HDCD discs get made by people who give a crap how it sounds to start with,and that's 95% of the end result right there
TerryO
Super Member
HDCD was invented by Dr. Keith O. Johnson (of Reference Recording fame) and Mathematician Michael "Pflash" Pflaumer while working at Pacific Microsonics. My Audio Buddy, Rene' Yeager, was responsible for much of the circuit design. Pflaumer and Rene' also developed the Pacific Microsonics Model 1 (ADC) and Model 2 (DAC), which are used in most recording studios today. They later founded, along with Michael Ritter, Berkeley Audio Designs where they developed the Berkeley Alpha DAC, a consumer DAC that has been on Stereophile's "Class A" list for several years.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Best Regards,
TerryO
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
The two Rotels I've run for the last 9 years have been HDCD capable.
I too have a lot of Grateful Dead HDCD encoded discs as well as Joni Mitchell ,Buffalo Springfield and others.
Although I suspect it makes a subtle difference, I wouldn't miss it if my player didn't have it.
I don't know what you consider "big bucks", but I'm pretty sure you can get a used Rotel for well under $300.
EDIT TO ADD
Of course, it may just be that my system isn't revealing enough to get the benifit
I too have a lot of Grateful Dead HDCD encoded discs as well as Joni Mitchell ,Buffalo Springfield and others.
Although I suspect it makes a subtle difference, I wouldn't miss it if my player didn't have it.
I don't know what you consider "big bucks", but I'm pretty sure you can get a used Rotel for well under $300.
EDIT TO ADD
Of course, it may just be that my system isn't revealing enough to get the benifit
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Someone tell me if I am wrong here.
HDCD can be read by Windows 7 and ripped into FLAC files. If you have a DAC that can read 24/96 you can take advantage of the increased content of these tracks. Because of this, you don't have to have an HDCD player to hear HDCD disc content. Granted this increased content may, or may not, increase the audio enjoyment of the track.
HDCD can be read by Windows 7 and ripped into FLAC files. If you have a DAC that can read 24/96 you can take advantage of the increased content of these tracks. Because of this, you don't have to have an HDCD player to hear HDCD disc content. Granted this increased content may, or may not, increase the audio enjoyment of the track.
hifitommy
Super Member
there are MANY hdcd incoded discs out there and mostly, they only mention hdcd in small print thats mixed in with other data that one doesnt normally glean.
after all these years, i dont have a player or processor that has hdcd capability but i bemoan that fact. one of these days i MUST do it because the potential is very high that the sound will be exemplary.
after all these years, i dont have a player or processor that has hdcd capability but i bemoan that fact. one of these days i MUST do it because the potential is very high that the sound will be exemplary.
i think one reason they sometimes aren't labeled as HDCD was to avoid having to pay copyrights to Pacific Microsonics.
generally i would say it's not worth it to pursue only an HDCD-capable player and overlook most new players and standalone DACs which don't do HDCD. however, if you are looking to get the most out of a particular collection of HDCD's (such as your Dead's or most of Keith Johnson's Reference Recordings discs), then i think it's something worth trying out. i can recommend the Denon DVD-9000 as being a great all-around disc player, and almost all of the Denon DVD players will do HDCD. Rotel makes some good stuff, as mentioned (I've always wanted an RCD-991AE). Arcam has the Alpha 9, among others. the Oppo DVD and Blu-Ray players still do HDCD.
Erocka2000
Well-Known Member
My Emotiva plays HDCD and those discs sound fantastic. I discovered them by surprise. Here are a couple I have:
Beck - Mutations (may be the best of them all!), Midnite Vultures, Sea Change
Flaming Lips - The Soft Bulletin
Sigur Ros - ()
Modest Mouse - Lonesome Crowded West
They sound good enough that it's making me research SACD players. Maybe an Oppo BDP-95 to cover all my bases.
Beck - Mutations (may be the best of them all!), Midnite Vultures, Sea Change
Flaming Lips - The Soft Bulletin
Sigur Ros - ()
Modest Mouse - Lonesome Crowded West
They sound good enough that it's making me research SACD players. Maybe an Oppo BDP-95 to cover all my bases.
No, not at all. The two "HD" terms are actually unrelated. HDCD requires only an HDCD compatible player; all the rest of the gear can be normal, and if any components happen to be "HD" it will have no effect, good or bad. Oversimplified, HDCD is a slight modification to the CD standard. It's still basically 2-ch, 16-bit, 44.1KHz, and still works just like CD. It's not at all similar to SACD or DVD-A.
Some folk really love HDCD, others think it does very little. I think it meant more back in the early days of CD, when many CDs were very badly recorded, and many CDPs sounded awful.
CDs and CDPs that have HDCD often sound very good (with or without the HDCD decoding engaged) because the folks that made them paid more attention to the sound. The fact that they went to the trouble of using (and paying for) the HDCD process is decent evidence of their willingness to try harder. IMHO, that actually has a bigger effect than the HDCD process itself.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
I would say it's not worth spending big bucks on a new CD player just for HDCD, but if you have a decent CD collection and listen to CDs a lot, I would say it's certainly worth buying an expensive player. HDCD capability is a little bit of icing on the cake. Lots of good CD players have it. Off the top of my head, I know some older Arcam CD players are HDCD compatible, but I'm not sure about the newer ones.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
I've found this to be true as well, and now also with the "Red Book" layers of hybrid SACDs.
mrarroyo
Well-Known Member
I had an NAD C542 that could read HDCD (have a few jazz cd's), then I changed to an Arcam CD73 that could not read the HDCD and furthermore IMO does not sound as good as the NAD C542 that retailed for $250 less. My problem with the NAD C542 was reliability, the first unit broke and was replaced under warranty. The replacement unit developed the same problem and thus why I "upgraded".
