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A better DAC-- close enough to bite, or learning to use a Soundblaster a bit better

oneinchside

Openly Baffled
Well I wanted a better DAC for listening to 2 channel audio on the 'puter, and I found it... about 1.5cm from my old one.

I had been frustrated with the sound coming out of my PC, actually all of them, and was dreaming of an upgrade to an outboard DAC, but the pennies weren't there. Now, granted, in the world of HiFi a $200 component is a drop in the bucket, but in my current fiscal calendar it is 2.785 years worth of disposable income. Or something like that.

So I started looking for overlooked DACs and something I could mod, in the process I read this regarding the Sound Blaster Live! series:

The rear channel was serviced by a separate, but arguably better Philips UDA1334 DAC, yet the Op-Amp used to boost the signal to output levels had a noticeably different frequency response envelope that was not normalized to the front channel, leaving a "thin and quiet" rear channel. To make matters worse, the rear channel Op-Amp was of the inverting variety without being treated as such, leaving the rear speakers out of phase with the front, requiring switchover. These problems were not encountered by those using the Gold editions' daughterboard 4-speaker digital-output, but the tendency of the AC'97 chip to fail when used as an input source to medium-impedance musical instruments removed the use of the front channels altogether, although the chip could be sourced from cheaper AC'97 compatible products and soldered into place. Nevertheless, simply redirecting front signal to rear output of SB Live! was for a long time a favorite trick for computer audio enthusiasts who want better sound for minimum of money.

Rear channel? Oh yeah, it does support one of those... a different DAC? Really? Hmmm....

So I moved that crappy little 1/8" plug from the green spot to the black one, adjusted the balance between the 2, went through and reset all the gain stages in ALSA and Jack (I use Linux, the same works using the Kx drivers in Windows) Shut off all unnecessary services and Voila! It sounds like a whole new source. Thin and quiet? More like accurate and not f'd up.

The flexibility you have in routing devices in Jack and the Kx drivers is simply amazing.

Oh, a few other things-- the Sound Blaster only operates at 16 bit /48 khz. If you play a cd in the drive it'll sound like *bleep* because of the AC97 chip... the data is coming in at 44.1khz and being converted on the fly by the AC97 chip, and poorly I might add. And then the same chip has to do the DA conversion, and control the mixing/effects and all sound interrupts at the same time. That's a lot to ask of the poor ol' chip.

But by recording a CD by a direct bit copy to the HD and then using Audacity to upconvert it to 48khz... then the AC97 chip doesn't have to do any thinking really, just routing. And by having the (nicer) Phillips UDA1334 DAC do the digital-analog chores it has all of that off it's mind... and this case that's a good thing. The only other stage that could get in the way of the 1334 is the "3D" effects-- turn those things off in the ALSA mixer.

So everything is perfect right? Not quite. Making a bit for bit copy takes a while, and a high quality conversion takes a lot longer. (2+ hours for a 5 min song on my machine). And the OPAMP that follows the 1334 is small, and weak, and the attendant caps are... small and cheap.

Still it's a heck of a lot less shrill and smeary. Reverb sounds like reverb, a delayed copy of the original signal, rather than a nasty unexplained glare. Still, its a HUGE step forward, and considering that there has been a SB derivative in almost every "normal" PC I figure this should help a few others. And finally, it sounds just about as good as my Magnavox MWD200G DVD player. (it's not a very high bar folks, but not being able to best a $29 DVD player from the drug store really chapped my hindparts.)

Now, if I just took that teeeny tiny analog signal fresh from the 1334 and fed to a nice tube output stage...

Questions, pictures, links, references, pinouts, etc, just ask if ya need 'em.
 
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I still use a Creative Live 5.1 for playback on my pc/digital recorder rig and it has shared duty with a Yamaha DS1x which I find to have a bit better DAC than the Live and it uses a seperate daughter card for multi-channel out. Unfortunately drivers were never developed beyond native support from Windows XP. It would be interesting to try this Yammy card in a Linux environment. What version of Linux do you use?
 
I still use a Creative Live 5.1 for playback on my pc/digital recorder rig and it has shared duty with a Yamaha DS1x which I find to have a bit better DAC than the Live and it uses a seperate daughter card for multi-channel out. Unfortunately drivers were never developed beyond native support from Windows XP. It would be interesting to try this Yammy card in a Linux environment. What version of Linux do you use?


Ubuntu 10.4

I'm not seeing the Yamaha listed on the ALSA supported cards list-- it may emulate something else.

Here's the list: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Sound_cards


If you still have the 5.1 youo can try the Kx drivers under Xp with ASIO also:
http://kxproject.com/

I'd be interested in how the SB rear channel compares to your Yamaha.
 
Get yourself an Asus Xonar D2.

Sounds shockingly good.:thmbsp:

Got fed up with Creative products a while back.

Soon as funds are available for it, I'll be trying something. If you still have a SB Live! around I'd be interested in what you thought of the rear with better drivers/routing vs the Asus. :thmbsp:
 
Yup...I use the Gigabyte mobo's built-in coaxial digital output set for 16-bit, 44.1kHz and Foobar 2000 player using ASIO driver(s).
 
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Auzentech X-Fi Prelude w/ discrete Burson op-amp running Winamp w/ ASIO driver here...

?? so the X-Fi is doing the DAC and the signal is being passed to a separate op-amp to bring it to line level?

(AFAIK, the X-Fi doesn't have the AC97 maladies that the Live! and Audigy series did.)
 
Sorry to thread-crap, but this seems like a great spot to ask this question.

See, I want to start transferring my half-speed masters to CD, but I want 20-24 bit, with the 48kHz sampling rate, but I just can't seem to find anything. This now raises several questions.

Do I have to go to DVD format to make this work?

Do they make 24-bit sound cards that have a 24-bit DAC?

If so, will the CD burner still do 24-bit, or will it be 16-bit?

Is there a 24-bit CD burner on the market?


So may questions.....so little time.



Thanks!



-Jason
 
I have been doing everything in the 16-bit realm, and while these CD's are great for in the car, I notice a quality difference when I play them back on the home stereo. I would like to make a CD copy that is as close to the original as possible.
 
?? so the X-Fi is doing the DAC and the signal is being passed to a separate op-amp to bring it to line level?

(AFAIK, the X-Fi doesn't have the AC97 maladies that the Live! and Audigy series did.)

Its a sound card that uses a Creative Labs chipset like that in the SoundBlaster cards, but the opamps are socketed for easy switching to get the best sound to your ears. I settled on the Burson Audio discrete Opamp instead of the 8pin job that came stock.
 
Yeah, but does the burner support 24 or 20-bit, or is it only 16?

If I feed my DVD burner with a 24-bit music file, will it burn the CD at 24-bit?


Sorry for all the questions, just a bit curious.



-Jason
 
Yeah, but does the burner support 24 or 20-bit, or is it only 16?

If I feed my DVD burner with a 24-bit music file, will it burn the CD at 24-bit?


Sorry for all the questions, just a bit curious.



-Jason

REdbook is 16/44, period. If you want to go to 24/96 then DVD is your only option. I doubt you will be able to tell the difference.

YOu cannot burn a CD at 24 (AFIK-If anybody knows different, speak up).
 
I have been doing everything in the 16-bit realm, and while these CD's are great for in the car, I notice a quality difference when I play them back on the home stereo. I would like to make a CD copy that is as close to the original as possible.

If you believe you can tell the difference between 24 and 16, then try an ABX test using Foobar2000 (freeware). Bet you can't. I thought I could and I can't even hear a difference between 320 mp3 and 24 bit on most stuff.

ABX testing is the only way to prove you can hear a difference, everything else is just hot air and subjective opinion. I say that as someone who got his butt handed to him by an ABX test.:D
 
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