A better DAC-- close enough to bite, or learning to use a Soundblaster a bit better

[garww]

Sound Blaster= Crap! Suitable for MP3 and video games. Not suitable for anything else if you're serious. Bloated, buggy drivers, annoying habit of poor updates of drivers. If you are needing cheap, good, and good drivers get an Asus Xonar. Serious users should get a professional market sound card intended for high quality recording.

Ya, Creative has always sucked with software and support. However, my tascam doesn't give me any better recordings. Creative would rather have us buy their E-Mu products. My recording rig is a little laptop and my goto is a creative expresscard(x-fi notebook) with the audigy chip. Under Linux, I just use the realtek and it's fine also. If I want something to sound good, I re-amp it, anyway(which I have to do for much of the CDs I buy because they sound like crap).

 

[Skry]

I guess it's a bit late to reply to this thread but since I've been banging my head into a wall lately with sb live value with linux I might share my experiences.

Rear channel:
First of all, you need to set your card into 4.0 surround (with live value at least) from system settings. I use KDE and did not have that option for some reason or another so I needed to edit Pulseaudio configuration directly. Surround (Wave surround in some cases) in alsamixer controls the level of the rear channel. Next thing to do is to get Pulseaudio to use Surround as a master volume; Both Master and PCM volume in alsamixer do not affect rear channel at all. This can be done again by editing Pulseaudio configuration files.

Resampling:
There is really no need to manually resample your files as Pulseaudio can do all resampling on-the-fly. This is, again, done by editing Pulseaudio configuration files. You can choose from several different resamplers and quality settings; by default PA uses low quality settings to save cpu time. Best quality generates about 25% load to PA process with my E8400 (2x3GHz) but it's really worth it and literally anyone with any gear can hear the difference. You might want to set Pulseaudio to use realtime scheduling, or at least higher priority to eliminate possible skips etc when system load is high.

Software:
Most players today in Linux world use Gstreamer as a backend to do decoding and so on. I and many others have found out that both VLC and Audacious produce somewhat better sound than Gstreamer based players since both have their own decoders etc, so I'd warmly recommend Audacious for Gnome/Xfce/Wm users. Most KDE users use Amarok or other KDE specific players which can all be set to use VLC instead of Gstreamer (or the very much outdated Xine) by installing VLC backend for Phonon.

Final words:
You really need to do these steps in Linux if you want even decent quality audio from your live or any other card that needs software resampling. If you are brave enough you could remove Pulseaudio completely to make sure it doesnt mess your audio in any way; it is not needed because sb live has enough (hardware) channels and all of the above can be done with Alsa. Consider using JACK if you want more advanced features and control of your audio subsystem. Those who want to use digital out might want to know that the header does not output 5 volts TTL but something around 2.5 volts. If, for some obscure reason, you must use front channel, disable tone controls and set both master and pcm from alsamixer to 0db or preferrably lower to avoid distortion. There is also a patch for emu10k1 driver which disables volumes over 0db from mixer.

If anyone needs or simply does not want to read through 10 poor man pages and wants to save hours of googling I'll be happy to post my configs and explain the options you have.

If someone has any info and/or experiences about opamp and cap swapping regarding this card, please share. Hope this has been of any help to someone.

 

[mcrt7]

So I moved that crappy little 1/8" plug from the green spot to the black one, adjusted the balance between the 2, went through and reset all the gain stages in ALSA and Jack

Questions, pictures, links, references, pinouts, etc, just ask if ya need 'em.

I have the same card
0 [Live]: EMU10K1 - SB Live! Value [CT4832]

Can you tell me how to do it, step by step?

I tried simply putting headphones to black rear out jack and choose surround 4.0 and I can hear sound but it seems to be somehow different from comming from green jack out.

Besides when I put headphones to black rear out jack I can't hear line in sound which I need to use for TV tuner sound.

So I would like to have the same stereo signal from green line out jack routed to black rear out jack.

I am not advanced Linux user and I don't know how to do it myself. I don't know what jack/input/output corresponds to what device.

Can you post screenshots of your settings?

By the way, you have exceeded your stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until you clear some space.

 

[oneinchside]

I have the same card
0 [Live]: EMU10K1 - SB Live! Value [CT4832]

Can you tell me how to do it, step by step?

I tried simply putting headphones to black rear out jack and choose surround 4.0 and I can hear sound but it seems to be somehow different from comming from green jack out.

Besides when I put headphones to black rear out jack I can't hear line in sound which I need to use for TV tuner sound.

So I would like to have the same stereo signal from green line out jack routed to black rear out jack.

I am not advanced Linux user and I don't know how to do it myself. I don't know what jack/input/output corresponds to what device.

Can you post screenshots of your settings?

By the way, you have exceeded your stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until you clear some space.

It's been a L O N G time since I used that card- oddly enough I had it in my hand yesterday while cleaning up for the holidays. I've been using a USB soundcard (M-Audio Audiophile 2496 USB) that I have been absolutely delighted with. After looking at a certain auction site's sold listings (no affiliation) they seem to be going for about $30 shipped, that would be my first recommendation.

I may not be able to walk you through every step, but I'll come as close as I can. I should have some free time coming up so I'll try to build up a machine like yours- but I need some info:

Make and Model of the PC
(since it's a EMU10K1 - SB Live! Value [CT4832] I'm guessing a 15 yr old Dell)
Operating system- XP? Win7? Vista? OSX? Linux?
Ram
Hard Drives (and free space)
other cards in the system
everything your hoping to hook up to it
(this is important- make and model of receiver or amp/preamp)
2 channel stereo, 4 or 5 channel surround? (you mentioned 4, but is that what you really want?)


And I fixed my inbox- I can receive PM's now, but if you don't mind it would be great to work through the problems here, that way it may even be able to help someone else as well.:yes:

 

[oneinchside]

I guess it's a bit late to reply to this thread but since I've been banging my head into a wall lately with sb live value with linux I might share my experiences.

Rear channel:
First of all, you need to set your card into 4.0 surround (with live value at least) from system settings. I use KDE and did not have that option for some reason or another so I needed to edit Pulseaudio configuration directly. Surround (Wave surround in some cases) in alsamixer controls the level of the rear channel. Next thing to do is to get Pulseaudio to use Surround as a master volume; Both Master and PCM volume in alsamixer do not affect rear channel at all. This can be done again by editing Pulseaudio configuration files.

Resampling:
There is really no need to manually resample your files as Pulseaudio can do all resampling on-the-fly. This is, again, done by editing Pulseaudio configuration files. You can choose from several different resamplers and quality settings; by default PA uses low quality settings to save cpu time. Best quality generates about 25% load to PA process with my E8400 (2x3GHz) but it's really worth it and literally anyone with any gear can hear the difference. You might want to set Pulseaudio to use realtime scheduling, or at least higher priority to eliminate possible skips etc when system load is high.

Software:
Most players today in Linux world use Gstreamer as a backend to do decoding and so on. I and many others have found out that both VLC and Audacious produce somewhat better sound than Gstreamer based players since both have their own decoders etc, so I'd warmly recommend Audacious for Gnome/Xfce/Wm users. Most KDE users use Amarok or other KDE specific players which can all be set to use VLC instead of Gstreamer (or the very much outdated Xine) by installing VLC backend for Phonon.

Final words:
You really need to do these steps in Linux if you want even decent quality audio from your live or any other card that needs software resampling. If you are brave enough you could remove Pulseaudio completely to make sure it doesnt mess your audio in any way; it is not needed because sb live has enough (hardware) channels and all of the above can be done with Alsa. Consider using JACK if you want more advanced features and control of your audio subsystem. Those who want to use digital out might want to know that the header does not output 5 volts TTL but something around 2.5 volts. If, for some obscure reason, you must use front channel, disable tone controls and set both master and pcm from alsamixer to 0db or preferrably lower to avoid distortion. There is also a patch for emu10k1 driver which disables volumes over 0db from mixer.

If anyone needs or simply does not want to read through 10 poor man pages and wants to save hours of googling I'll be happy to post my configs and explain the options you have.

If someone has any info and/or experiences about opamp and cap swapping regarding this card, please share. Hope this has been of any help to someone.

I haven't looked at this thread in a while but if your still able to post (or link) to the poor man files I'd love to look through them.

Thanks!

 

[mcrt7]

It's self made PC. E7400 4GB RAM 500 GB disk, Linux Kubuntu 14.04, and onboard sound card but deactivated. I need only stereo sound.

I found something about routing on alsa and I thought it would be quite simple for someone who knows what he is doing.
http://alsa.opensrc.org/SurroundSound#Custom_Routing_of_Signals_to_Surround_Outputs

I am a bit surprised that you ask for RAM. Does this operation require some hardware RAM or CPU usage? If yes, maybe is not worth trying.

I don't know how jack audio works. And if you need to build a special machine, hmm I don't want make you trouble. I can afford a new sound card.

Is there a big difference between SB Live and your external DAC?

 

[oneinchside]

It's self made PC. E7400 4GB RAM 500 GB disk, Linux Kubuntu 14.04, and onboard sound card but deactivated. I need only stereo sound.

I found something about routing on alsa and I thought it would be quite simple for someone who knows what he is doing.
http://alsa.opensrc.org/SurroundSound#Custom_Routing_of_Signals_to_Surround_Outputs

Alsa is much more user friendly than Jack

I am a bit surprised that you ask for RAM. Does this operation require some hardware RAM or CPU usage? If yes, maybe is not worth trying.

I asked for RAM out of habit, in this case almost anything should do. 4GB is more than enough.

I don't know how jack audio works. And if you need to build a special machine, hmm I don't want make you trouble. I can afford a new sound card.

Is there a big difference between SB Live and your external DAC?

HUGE! Probably the best advice I got on soundcards etc. from AK was to move to an external DAC. PC's are very noisy inside. By now there may be a better choice than the Audiophile 2496 USB, but for the price these are selling at used I'm probably going to pick up another one. And Ubuntu just recognized it and installed the drivers. I imagine Kubuntu would be much the same. With Win XP/7/8/10 I had to get the drivers from M-Audio's website.

 

[mcrt7]

I decided to upgrade. But anyway, thank you for your interest. It is always good to have an opinion from someone who had the same hardware.

 

[Skry]

I haven't looked at this thread in a while but if your still able to post (or link) to the poor man files I'd love to look through them.

Thanks!

Sorry, I don't have any of the configs anymore. Using USB DAC nowadays. In the end, I removed pulseaudio completely and did everything with alsa. Easier to configure and better performance (+ I don't want crap like PA running on my PC ). IIRC those PA configs were quite straightforward and all info is in the man pages.

Anyway, word about resampling I apparently forgot to mention back when I wrote my post. Even though it can be done in hardware, you really do not want to be doing that. DSP has a fixed sample rate of 48 kHz and the hardware sample rate conversion is absolutely horrible (I think Creative admitted this too and recommended to use third party software to do that if necessary). Everything goes through that DSP so..

With alsa, you can get good quality software sample rate conversion by placing this in .asoundrc:

defaults.pcm.rate_converter "samplerate_best"

Obviously, to use the software instead of hardware, you'll need to either force the device to accept only 48 kHz, or set up dmix and set the rate to 48 kHz. You can do all sorts of stuff in asoundrc, from sample rate conversion like this to routing etc, Google is your friend and you can probably find examples of just about everything and beyond.

Bonus info: I found it best to keep tone controls muted (which apparently equals bass and treble @ 50) but some say it's better to use the tone control and drop the bass to ~30 to avoid distortion. Also, deadbeef is a great player, where you can actually choose the alsa device to use instead of just blindly using whatever the default is.

All in all, it is possible to get decent quality out of the old SB Live, but with the low prices of quality sound cards and USB DACs I find curiosity to be the only reason to use such card these days.

 

[BadassBob]

Wow, Soundblaster Live, that brings back some memories. I used that card in my first ever gaming PC I built some 15 or 16 years ago. It was a very nice card at the time, but I have no recollection of it's sound signature. I do remember it was very nice, much better than other consumer cards of the day. I even had the 5.25" expansion bay that was chock full of I/O ports. These days, I'm more than happy with the onboard audio from my PC, but there are plenty of cards out there I wouldn't mind owning.

 

[Skry]

About Soundblasters being crap, I do not fully agree. While Creative has always provided crap drivers, and their service in general has been quite poor, the cards I've heard are actually pretty decent for their price.

The Live value I have, was in daily use from 1999 to 2013 and at least with Linux the drivers are mature and as good as they are for everything else. So, at least the build quality is there if nothing else. Sure the design of the card is somewhat ridiculous but in the end it can be made to sound good.

I also have similar thoughts about X-Fi XtremeMusic, which had really poor drivers for Windows, but at best sounded quite good. All this said, if I would be buying a traditional sound card today, it would probably not be from Creative.