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“Fatiguing?”

M70AB2

Well-Known Member
I read this so often — how this or that speaker, DAC, receiver, you name it, is “fatiguing.”

But it occurred to me yesterday how I haven’t a clear, if any, idea as to how a piece of audio gear might be equivalent to say, dragging a boulder with a chain across sand.

I’m not trying to be funny, snarky or sarcastic. I am completely serious: by what objective criteria should we determine audio gear as “fatiguing?”

How do I determine if any of my own gear is “fatiguing?”

Could gear be “fatiguing” and I don’t know enough to discern this failing?

It may ruffle some feathers that I ask in such a manner, but I honestly want to know.

Humble thanks in advance.
 
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The basic idea of something being "fatiguing" is that it may seem to sound okay at first, but when listening to it for a long time, something does not seem quite right about it. So that after a while, one does not like the sound anymore.


Edited to add:

As far as objective criteria goes, the feeling of fatiguing is subjective, though it can be brought on by small amounts of unpleasant sounding distortion that can be objectively measured. It can also be brought on by frequency response issues (that also can be objectively measured), where some frequencies are overemphasized, which may be exciting at first, but become unpleasant over time. I have found that to be the case with speakers where they overemphasize upper bass (often in an attempt to hide the fact that the speakers don't produce actual deep bass), which can make them sound "powerful" at first, but its wrongness becomes more obvious with extended listening. Some people, though, like that kind of boominess, and so it is not fatiguing to those who like it. The same feeling of fatiguing can be brought on by excess treble, where, at first, it may seem to be added clarity (as one hears the overemphasized frequencies more clearly), but over time may seem shrill and unpleasant. Also, of course, for you to notice that the frequencies are overemphasized, you have to listen to music that contains those frequencies or you will not hear the problem. So you may not hear it at first because of the particular music that you first hear on the speakers.

In other words, sometimes the wrongness of the sound is not appreciated at first, and only becomes apparent with extended listening.

Sometimes, though, the word is applied inappropriately (just like every other word).


Basically, a non-fatiguing speaker (or whatever) is enjoyable to listen to over an extended period of time, so that the flaws of the thing are not particularly annoying. Notice, though, what annoys one person may not annoy another, so the concept fundamentally involves a subjective reaction to whatever it is that is heard. With that in mind, something that accurately reproduces whatever is fed into it might be fatiguing to some person, who wishes to have some pleasant distortion added to the sound (which explains why some people prefer amplifiers and other things with high levels of distortion, over amplifiers and sources that lack that distortion), or to have some frequencies removed from the sound. An electronics technician told me of a customer who brought in a pair of speakers and wanted them to disconnect the tweeters on their speakers (I think they were 3-way speakers, but I don't remember). After explaining to the customer what that would mean, the customer said he wanted the tweeters disconnected. So they disconnected the tweeters. Since the customer never came back to have that changed, it would appear that he did not want to hear treble and was happy to have it removed from everything he listened to.
 
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The basic idea of something being "fatiguing" is that it may seem to sound okay at first, but when listening to it for a long time, something does not seem quite right about it. So that after a while, one does not like the sound anymore.


Edited to add:

As far as objective criteria goes, the feeling of fatiguing is subjective, though it can be brought on by small amounts of unpleasant sounding distortion that can be objectively measured. It can also be brought on by frequency response issues (that also can be objectively measured), where some frequencies are overemphasized, which may be exciting at first, but become unpleasant over time. I have found that to be the case with speakers where they overemphasize upper bass (often in an attempt to hide the fact that the speakers don't produce actual deep bass), which can make them sound "powerful" at first, but its wrongness becomes more obvious with extended listening. Some people, though, like that kind of boominess, and so it is not fatiguing to those who like it. The same feeling of fatiguing can be brought on by excess treble, where, at first, it may seem to be added clarity (as one hears the overemphasized frequencies more clearly), but over time may seem shrill and unpleasant. Also, of course, for you to notice that the frequencies are overemphasized, you have to listen to music that contains those frequencies or you will not hear the problem. So you may not hear it at first because of the particular music that you first hear on the speakers.

In other words, sometimes the wrongness of the sound is not appreciated at first, and only becomes apparent with extended listening.

Sometimes, though, the word is applied inappropriately (just like every other word).


Basically, a non-fatiguing speaker (or whatever) is enjoyable to listen to over an extended period of time, so that the flaws of the thing are not particularly annoying. Notice, though, what annoys one person may not annoy another, so the concept fundamentally involves a subjective reaction to whatever it is that is heard. With that in mind, something that accurately reproduces whatever is fed into it might be fatiguing to some person, who wishes to have some pleasant distortion added to the sound (which explains why some people prefer amplifiers and other things with high levels of distortion, over amplifiers and sources that lack that distortion), or to have some frequencies removed from the sound. An electronics technician told me of a customer who brought in a pair of speakers and wanted them to disconnect the tweeters on their speakers (I think they were 3-way speakers, but I don't remember). After explaining to the customer what that would mean, the customer said he wanted the tweeters disconnected. So they disconnected the tweeters. Since the customer never came back to have that changed, it would appear that he did not want to hear treble and was happy to have it removed from everything he listened to.
you should have left your simple explanation.
 
As a native English speaker, I perfectly understand the meaning of “fatiguing.” I believe I conveyed that with my metaphor.

My question is in regard to its frequent use as in: “[fill in blank] was fatiguing” with no further explanation as to what aural characteristics contributed to this effect of fatigue.

I wasn’t asking for an explanation as to the general meaning of the word, rather, as to what is being conveyed in this specific usage.
 
As a native English speaker, I perfectly understand the meaning of “fatiguing.” I believe I conveyed that with my metaphor.

My question is in regard to its frequent use as in: “[fill in blank] was fatiguing” with no further explanation as to what aural characteristics contributed to this effect of fatigue.

I wasn’t asking for an explanation as to the general meaning of the word, rather, as to what is being conveyed in this specific usage.
 
Recalling my teenage years .. me and my friends had cheap stereos in our rooms. We use to max out the bass & treble controls .. this sounded good for a few minutes but got "fatiguing" real fast . :(

That's what fatiguing sounds like to me. I prefer a "warm" side of neutral sound.
 
Klipsch speakers, the horns on them are fatiguing to many. The sound bothers the ears of the listener.

Listening to my computer sound system is fatiguing if I do it for a long time. My ears want a better sound. I don't use the computer for listening so I don't have a system set up for it, using the sub sat system it came with.

Listening to low def sound on the hi-fi is fatiguing in that it is tiring to be listening and wanting more fidelity. Had this experience at a friend's recently, using BT to send HiRes from tidal to the rig DAC through the system. Another is a 320kHz CD I burned and used in the car. It sounds fatiguing on my main rig.

Heard the way someone else likes to listen. Records>tape out>compressor>EQ (one boosted one cut on either side of 1000Hz)>another compressor>tape in to receiver>large bookshelf speakers with minimum 10" but 12" preferred woofers and that was very fatiguing. I even asked how long do you listen when you cruise to tunes because after about 15 minutes my ears were very tired. Too much sound energy. Fatiguing.

As you listen to different stuff you will know when you run into something fatiguing, it just doesn't sound right and you can't make it right. And it varies in how long different listening fatigues are noticed. Some are very quick others take time, even leaving the listening to realize something wasn't right.

When folks have speakers that they say they enjoy but complain of listening fatigue, I just don't understand why they don't go get some speakers they can listen to for longer times without the fatigue.
 
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Speakers targeted at the general public typically have overemphasized bass and treble to call attention to themselves in the store. They sound "exciting" and "way more better" than the more accurate speakers. However, you find yourself less and less willing to turn your system on because it annoys you. Once you hear something, you can't unhear it. Like a hole in your tooth you can't leave alone
 
Good question.

I've considered this aspect of listening as well, and wondered if this is caused by the material being listened to...the "same-old", or is it something within the audio system that is wanting...and can be improved upon.

I think the lack of detail l might be in part some of the sound that is missing. There's a general feeling from past members that a degrading process takes place over time, so gradually it isn't perceived. Usually, the need of capping is discussed, but I won't bring that up.

Gear does get old, and probably over long periods of time, and even the different sources of sound lessen in their ability to share what was once there originally.

Then there's those who think that there's got to be that one weak link in the system that prevents them from having increased quality of sound, and it haunts them.

Finally, even our own hearing over time changes, and not for the better, wherein amplitude and either lower frequency or higher have to be increased due to the inability to hear these extended ranges of sound.


To my way of thinking "fatiguing" is really "tiresome"= "boring"? Perhaps the change takes place over time, to the equipment/source and/or the person listening...or maybe all three factors. :bigok:


Q
 
There are recordings that can "wear" on you almost immediately, but then there are recordings that are like having the artist in the room with you. For me the recognition of this situation is almost immediate. Fingernails on a blackboard is how I would describe my reaction to "fatiguing" recordings. I recognize it as soon as I hear it.
 
As a native English speaker, I perfectly understand the meaning of “fatiguing.” I believe I conveyed that with my metaphor.

My question is in regard to its frequent use as in: “[fill in blank] was fatiguing” with no further explanation as to what aural characteristics contributed to this effect of fatigue.

I wasn’t asking for an explanation as to the general meaning of the word, rather, as to what is being conveyed in this specific usage.
I think you will have to ask each specific user of the word, “fatiguing,” to get at a clearer explanation. You are getting general responses (and vague definitions) here about the characteristics of the word, in relationship to audio, because you asked a general question. There is no real way for any of us to know what a particular reviewer might have meant when he/she used the word, “fatiguing,” in relationship to hearing a particular piece of audio equipment.

And, while your metaphor made me laugh, I’m not sure it was apt. (I think Sisyphus was more than merely “fatigued.”) Listener fatigue is different from physical, emotional, or existential fatigue.
 
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Too much "distortion" is the usual cause. Distortion here is used in the broad sense. Maybe actual THD, maybe a terrible hole or hump in the response. Maybe too opaque. Maybe too loud for the room or the speakers being used. i.e. when a speaker gets within about 6dB of it's max-rated power, the distortion rises quite dramatically.
 
I think it probably has a lot to do with odd or even order harmonics. My tube system has that incredible sound. Awesome bass bass with excellent mids and highs and all produced with tube amplifiers.

I never can remember if its solid state that produces the even order harmonics and tube the odd order harmonics or the other way around. :eek:

I have been listening to tubes for years and just recently retubed 2 of the amps. They sound the same but with a little more power. I listen to it every day all day long with no fatique whatsoever. I sometimes have to discipline myself to tear myself away to do other things like fix the car, mow the lawn, etc. :rflmao:

Gotta go out to the garage to listen now. :music:
 
The only explanation can be that the OP hasn't heard it. Once he does he'll know. I don't know how you can avoid it. I've sold on quite a few speakers that I just couldn't listen to. It not just highs but flabby bass poor or missing mid range and crappy crossovers that don't do the job that can make listening tiring.
 
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