• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

“Fatiguing?”

Can be many things.…. A system with a wonky eq that makes your brain work to ‘fill in the blanks’, harsh treble, too much bass, too much mid, too much distortion, too high a volume, a grating vocalist, a crappy recording, death metal, experimental jazz, tape hiss etc etc, and maybe different person to person.

The explanation in post #3 is on the money.
 
Remember that buddy that used to crank AC/DC on his car stereo and your ears started bleeding?

I think distance can smooth out some of the sharp sonic attack, I can put a boombox in another room, turn it up pretty loud and it sounds fine but up close on my desk and it's difficult for long periods.
 
Here's a real-life realtime example; I'm sitting here listening to Appetite for Destruction through pioneer HPM-100 speakers and I keep getting that "oh my god can you turn that down?" feeling. That to me is fatigue; when it becomes unpleasant to keep listening.

Don't get me wrong, I love my setup, and I don't normally find it fatiguing, but the faithful recreation of the sound of a Les Paul into a dimed Marshall starts to grate on you a bit halfway through the album.
 
^^^ I felt that way about those when they were new and some of my friends had them.
 
I think the OP can pretty much rest assured his system isn't "fatiguing" .... if it was the questions needn't have been asked as you have an instant understanding of the meaning without explanation :D .... that's how I discovered the meaning anyway.
 
Unless you listen at too high levels, I second the too much distortion verdict for many cases, at high frequencies (More often)

The solution is simple when you have soldering iron skills Is to add power filtering capacitors.

The most effective is ceramic capacitors. the most ceramic capacitance you can add to existing capacitors at their rated voltage (At least).

10uf 50V Ceramic capacitors are very cheap and easy to find on eBay. 50V is enough for any non tubed audio source.

If you have low frequencies noise (Rare) you miss quantity (Not quality (Speed) filtering) (It's another story, not fatiguing but not listenable)
 
Last edited:
A theory (not necessarily an established scientific fact) I've read is that when you're trying to listen to music but noise and various distortions are present, your brain's audio processing needs to work a lot harder to internally filter the noise and / or distortions so that you can get at the music. This "signal processing" continues as long as you are listening. This processing consumes real energy leading to the feeling of actual fatigue and of wanting to stop listening. If the sound is very well reproduced the amount of "signal processing" is reduced and so not as fatiguing. Another case would be trying to listen to someone at your table talk in a noisy restaurant - your brain has to continuously filter out and ignore the noise and concentrate on the one voice.

Anyway, this idea relates poorly reproduced sound to more expenditure of energy and so fatigue.

This is not my idea and I apologize that I cannot cite the source since I read it many years ago. I believe it was Harry Pearson in the Absolute Sound magazine, but don't recall for sure.
 
A theory (not necessarily an established scientific fact) I've read is that when you're trying to listen to music but noise and various distortions are present, your brain's audio processing needs to work a lot harder to internally filter the noise and / or distortions so that you can get at the music. This "signal processing" continues as long as you are listening. This processing consumes real energy leading to the feeling of actual fatigue and of wanting to stop listening. If the sound is very well reproduced the amount of "signal processing" is reduced and so not as fatiguing. Another case would be trying to listen to someone at your table talk in a noisy restaurant - your brain has to continuously filter out and ignore the noise and concentrate on the one voice.

Anyway, this idea relates poorly reproduced sound to more expenditure of energy and so fatigue.

This is not my idea and I apologize that I cannot cite the source since I read it many years ago. I believe it was Harry Pearson in the Absolute Sound magazine, but don't recall for sure.

Tangentially, we can concisely process a small fraction of the sensory input we take in, so anytime we decide to listen differently (read critically, if that fits) we're prone to hear things we didn't hear before, and trying to process all that can be tiring as well. Anytime I hear something I didn't hear before I always go back to see if I missed it all along.
 
Going on 5 hours. Blinds are usually down but the Meyer lemon & Mandarin appreciate it. Very accurate but very easy to listen to, even with this musicIMG_0264.jpegIMG_0263.jpeg
 
What first comes to my mind when say sound is fatiguing are the highs are over emphasized, maybe with a higher than normal odd harmonic increase, too. IM distortion can be very fatiguing especially the TIM type. Paul Klipsch thought Frequency modulation distortion was fatiguing, too. There is a noise that can attach it self to higher frequency tones that was common with R2R tape machines that was called asperity noise as I recall. It can be fatiguing, too. Sort of like some digital noise that becomes apparent if to much processing is applied to a digital signal and hasn't been removed that will pollute the sound. Loud speakers with a wider variation in frequency response in the form of narrow peaks and valley can be fatiguing. ( early JBL ring radiators). Harmonically corruted bass can be just as fatiguing, but maybe over a longer time period before its recognized. In fact any time the sound being produced by electronics or loudspeakers is significantly altered from what the mind knows to be true, will cause fatigue.
 
Last edited:
As a native English speaker, I perfectly understand the meaning of “fatiguing.” I believe I conveyed that with my metaphor.

My question is in regard to its frequent use as in: “[fill in blank] was fatiguing” with no further explanation as to what aural characteristics contributed to this effect of fatigue.

I wasn’t asking for an explanation as to the general meaning of the word, rather, as to what is being conveyed in this specific usage.
I use this term frequently, so I feel obligated here.

I use the term to describe speakers that I can't listen to for longer periods. In particular, metal diaphragms will irritate me. Old fishers never do. Horns can. It's almost always the higher frequencies, but occasionally I'll find the low frequencies just too much. Maybe it can be described like an old transistor radio. That tinny sound gets annoying.

I don't think it's something everyone experiences.
 
Regarding Klipsch, some people just can’t take horns.
I’d say that, Regarding Klipsch, some people haven’t heard a pair (of Klipschorns, for example) properly set up and installed in the right room with high ceilings, sealed to good corners, and with good equipment (tubes) and a good source.

These speakers take no prisoners—including the listener.
 
Regarding Klipsch, some people just can’t take horns.
There are good horns and bad horns.
I’d say that, Regarding Klipsch, some people haven’t heard a pair (of Klipschorns, for example) properly set up and installed in the right room with high ceilings, sealed to good corners, and with good equipment (tubes) and a good source.

These speakers take no prisoners—including the listener.
I'm all in on horn speakers, but my experience with Klipsch speakers has been uneven, at best. My first experience was with a Pair of Klipsch H-700 Heresy that I rescued from a job site about 17 years ago. I had heard great things about the brand and understood that the speaker had legendary status. Plugging them into a late 90's totl Marantz AVR, I was unimpressed, to say the least. I'd previously had speakers from Infinity and JBL and more recently had been using a pair of Peavey 2-way PA monitors, as I was in between speakers for my Hi-Fi at home. The H700 were tinny and anemic and not at all what I had expected (granted, I had no idea what to expect, other than people told me they were great speakers.) I ultimately tried to give them away to a buddy, only to have them return a few years ago, like a bad penny. I put them in my carriage house and cursed them every time they were in my way and had to be moved. Summer of '22, I had to move them and the thought strongly crossed my mind that I should just set them on the curb, as they were in really rough shape:IMG_0771.jpeg
I'd just been given a receiver from my boss, after living with a series of cheap bluetooth speakers and a Bose wave radio for the previous decade after living a semi-nomadic life as a freelance journalist. I'd gotten back into woodworking for my job and it occurred to me that instead of tossing them, I should restore them, instead. I recapped the crossover, replaced the woofers and refinished the boxes. Surely, with fresh components, they would sound better, right?
07C0ECB3-F7FA-43A3-8C64-3A4F7BC20A8E.jpg
nope! They were as unimpressive as ever. The aluminium mid horns resonated something awful and both they and the tweeters were sibilant and harsh. Also, where was the f@¢£ing bass?! They were the definition of fatiguing, but they at least looked halfway decent. Not wanting to give up a pair of free speakers, I fired up the google machine and found a bunch of solutions: I braced the insides of the cabinets and damped them with foam. I replaced the gaskets between the mid horns and drivers and covered the mid wave guides with a layer of rope caulk to tame the resonances. It was an improvement, but there was still the dearth of low-end frequencies to deal with, not to mention the tweeter that threatened to wake up all of the dogs in my neighborhood, every time I fired them up. I was starting to come to the conclusion that maybe horns weren't for me when I stumbled upon the Super Heresy mods, replacing the woofers and tweeters & adding a port in the rear. Since my initial investment was low, I decided to give it a last ditch try. I replaced the woofers with Eminence Delta Pro 12A, added a B-52 4" x 4-1/2" port in new rear panels (in case I wanted to return them to stock) and picked up a pair of @Daveintn 's sMAHL tweeters.

IMG_1218.jpeg

the end result made me a believer. Incredible dynamic range, amazing transient response and a significantly more robust low end response. That inspired me to return them to stock and build a set of clones to house the modifications. It also set me on the DIY path in search of better sound. I played with bigger horns, larger enclosures before ultimately building the LaScala clones in my profile pic that measure +/- 3db from 23Hz to 20kHz that I designed, using knowledge that I'd gained along the way in the past year.
IMG_6311.jpeg

I firmly believe that people who say they don't like horns, simply haven't heard good ones.
 
There are recordings that can "wear" on you almost immediately, but then there are recordings that are like having the artist in the room with you. For me the recognition of this situation is almost immediate. Fingernails on a blackboard is how I would describe my reaction to "fatiguing" recordings. I recognize it as soon as I hear it.

This is what stands out to me the most. I don't think I have ever been fatigued by equipment. Unimpressed, or poor sounding, but not fatigued.
CD's, and records are all over the place with sound quality.

Off topic but I want a modern amp, new lap top, and DAC, and run that. I am tiring of physical media. It was fun acquiring it though.......(I need a new PC, and everything else is not happening soon)
 
Yesterday afternoon I had a very enjoyable experience listening to reel to reel tapes through a tube amp and Altec Valencia's for several hours.
Then I turned on my digital tv/soundbar and attempted to watch a Netflix movie.
Goes beyond fatiguing, more like grating in comparison.
 
I use Thinkpads for everything music. I buy the T500 models +. My main system is a T530 which allows me to use two hard drives, both are 2TB Seagates. The slot for the second drive can be used for CD/DVDs also and the various drives are replaceable. I have three hard drive trays, one for music, one for movies and one for TV. It is very handy and I don't have to listen to scratchy records. My recordings have all been transferred into Mp3s or .flacs. Mp3s for the car and flacs for home.
 
I can remember back in the early 70's we became a UREI dealer. They were famous for their limiters and compressors and Graphic equalizers in the professional and broadcast fields Recording studios all had Urei pieces. . Don DAvis formerly with Altec who invented 1/3 octave equalation working with Professors at Georgia Tech and Cal Tech discovered if you spaced narrow 1/10 octave filters a 1/3 of an octave apart they would add together with minimum phase which is timing error for a more natural sound if the filters only subtracted. So Urei, Altec and White started making the filters. Whites were passive at first and then went on to make 1/6 octave filters as I recall.

Well we had become Klipsch dealers in 67 or 68 since home Altec was really being left behind. JBL was to expensive it seemed. Bozak wasn't doing that well either. About the 4th or 5th set of Corner horns we finally got our first shipment of 539 room Eq's. We had white spectrum analyzer and an old B&K set. We set up a three channel system with the Cornwall in the middle using three Urei filter sets. After about an hour of testing we were really amazed at how well Korner Horns sounded. We brought in all the sales staff and owners of the company for a demo and everyone was really favorably impressed. But the cost for the entire system was really high for back then as we were using a set of African Ebony Klipsch speakers. Double the price. But one of the Farah Pant Company big wigs bought the set. We did sell for or 5 more sets in standard walnut , but don't remember the electronics.

All those systems were just beyond belief. It didn't matter if the systems were in large rooms, deep rooms or just moderately sized rooms. Later equalization systems in Yamaha, Marantz, Sony, AVR's gave great results, too. When Mcintosh started using Lyngdorf Room Perfect with 1/12 octave digital filters there was quite a learning curve in order to get the best balanced sound. To tell you the truth my favorite 3 channel system was 3 Cornwalls for smaller rooms. When Home theater came along three Hersey with 2 subs and surrounds was my favorite for most homes. The new Heritage speakers are really much better than previous models. I would love to hear some Jubilees equalized. Re voiced is the proper terminology.
 
Thanks to all who replied, including those who proffered their personal renditions of dictionary definitions.

I see there are those who do understand what I was getting at: the cause and effect, or perhaps better described: effect and cause.

I don’t remember if it was a YouTube video or blog, but a tube or opamp or whatever was described as “ultimately fatiguing” with no actual description as to how the listener eventually arrived at this unfortunate conclusion.

So I am to imagine things started out A-OK, but then eventually devolved into something like having to endure yet another interminable lecture on how aside from Diana Krall, there just is no good music anymore since The Fugs broke up. Or something.

I am also reminded of favorite terms and catchphrases in the guitar community such as “haunting mids.” Maybe audiophiles use this one too.

But how do these mids “haunt?” Is that a good or bad thing? Seems we are left to guess once again.

I read or hear these things and am left thinking, wait, what? Back up a second…

Once more, special thanks to those thoughtful posters who did understand the specific question about a very broad term.
 
I use 'fatiguing' only when describing irritating aspects of a recording that cannot be easily labeled. Lots of stuff that is fatiguing can simply be named: harsh, piercing, edgy, distorted, etc. One common cause for me is excessive compression and peak limiting when mastering. It's something that you can't really put your finger on, sonically, except that it's tiresome to listen to for long. One compressed, loud-all-the-time CD, without any space between the notes for contrast, is all I want to listen to, even if I like the music.

I'll also use the word 'fatiguing' to describe the effects of what I call 'false brightness', a perceived tonal balance that defies and belies measured 'flat' response. Some call it 'sparkle', as near as I can tell. I call it hash, but will advertise it as 'sparkle' if and when I sell my Rega Saturn...
 
Back
Top Bottom