$11 Chinese AT3600L Thread Mk. II - Champagne sound on a Beer budget!

[AudioFeline]

I received a survey from AliExpress a while ago, which was pushing their desire to sell more genuine brand-name products, and from memory the survey acknowledged the counterfeit goods problem. Although they may have a desire to be more legit in the future, their history with many counterfeit items and the difficulty differentiating counterfeit from legitimate (esp. when buying from a website) may tarnish their plan. I will need a lot of reassurance in the future to trust they have really stopped counterfeits.

I've bought a lot of stuff from AliExpress, and found the generic items to be exactly the same as the generic items I can buy at the local bricks and mortar (eg. low-cost RCA plugs). When careful, the products are OK.
I've also been caught with counterfeit items (recently SD cards). I have bought several AT3600 carts from them, haven't installed any yet, and appreciate the heads-up that some may be counterfeit. As always, buyer beware. If you think the deal is too good, it is too good - walk away, or know that you are probably going to be swindled.

 

[thw61]

I used to listen to AT3600L on my AT-LP60X for months and found It sounded better with higher resistive loading.
Yes, at that time I didn't know the investment strategy and got an external phono amp with the TT.

 

[Jens Sinding]

The threaded AT3600L clones/fakes are fairly easy to spot once you are aware of them, but I very nearly bought some my first time on AE.
I have bought AT3600L from Thakker (1), local suppliers (3), eb (8) and AE (36+) and I have always checked the cartridges against the Thakker. None have been fakes, but today the price from Thakker is 46.50 USD delivered..
The last batch, that arrived two weeks ago, was 20 pcs from AE that cost me 8.30 USD a piece (last ditch import before the EU removes the de minimis customs threshold adding a flat customs rate of 3 EUR/3.50 USD per item in a package). I should be set for the next couple of years
Another trick that you frequently run into on AE is that the listing shows an AT3600L at a good price, and then it turns out that the price is for a totally different item, such as a headshell, when you get into the shop.

 

[jrtrent]

I used to listen to AT3600L on my AT-LP60X for months and found It sounded better with higher resistive loading.
Yes, at that time I didn't know the investment strategy and got an external phono amp with the TT.

What resistive loading did you end up using, and in what way or ways did it sound better to you? I've never owned a phono stage, whether built-in or external, that offered adjustments for that, but perhaps it's something I should consider.

 

[yofi]

I got one of the fake ones from Amazon last year. Had no issue returning it, but definitely made me a little concerned about buying them through less forgiving vendors like Ali.

 

[thw61]

What resistive loading did you end up using, and in what way or ways did it sound better to you? I've never owned a phono stage, whether built-in or external, that offered adjustments for that, but perhaps it's something I should consider.

Hi Jrtrent, I used 100k ohm loading. It ended up with more treble and little more and tighter bass. I'm 52 and I dont hear anything above 12kHz. Most built-in phono amp are bad with at-lp60x, at-lp70x and at-lp7 in my journey. now i played all mm cartridge with 100k ohm loading except one I used loading plug to get equivalent loading of 53k ohm.

Forgot to say, I just used the bundled phono cable (with ground wire) which is about 135nF and I set the capacitive loading at 20nF on the phono amp.

edited to add:

Btw, I tried AIN3600SLC which was with a crap structure though it sounded clear. Vivid line was good but I would consider a better cartridge such as AT-VM700 with a stylus profile of the same price such as VMN20.

 

[jrtrent]

Hi Jrtrent, I used 100k ohm loading. It ended up with more treble and little more and tighter bass. . .

Btw, I tried AIN3600SLC which was with a crap structure though it sounded clear. Vivid line was good but I would consider a better cartridge such as AT-VM700 with a stylus profile of the same price such as VMN20.

Thanks for the feedback on the alternative loading. I don't know how much you've experimented with capacitance, but since you liked the extra treble that the higher impedance gave you, one review mentioned that at a total of ~225pF capacitance, "the sound has a nice, warm balance with a soft treble. Increasing the capacitance setting to 250pF (giving a total of ~375pF) opens up the sound a little, adding crispness to the treble and bringing in more air, which some people may prefer."

As to other styli or cartridges, I'm just really satisfied with the AT3600L. I've had one in an LP60X for over four years, and last month bought a Fluance RT80, replacing its ATN91 stylus with an ATN3600LC. I'm not 100% certain that the stylus change turns the stock AT91 cartridge into an AT3600L (though previous posts in this thread have indicated that it should), but I'm really enjoying it anyway. The Fluance manages to extract more tuneful bass and easier to understand lyrics from that stylus without losing its easygoing yet engaging sound.

 

[thw61]

Thanks for the feedback on the alternative loading. I don't know how much you've experimented with capacitance, but since you liked the extra treble that the higher impedance gave you, one review mentioned that at a total of ~225pF capacitance, "the sound has a nice, warm balance with a soft treble. Increasing the capacitance setting to 250pF (giving a total of ~375pF) opens up the sound a little, adding crispness to the treble and bringing in more air, which some people may prefer."

As to other styli or cartridges, I'm just really satisfied with the AT3600L. I've had one in an LP60X for over four years, and last month bought a Fluance RT80, replacing its ATN91 stylus with an ATN3600LC. I'm not 100% certain that the stylus change turns the stock AT91 cartridge into an AT3600L (though previous posts in this thread have indicated that it should), but I'm really enjoying it anyway. The Fluance manages to extract more tuneful bass and easier to understand lyrics from that stylus without losing its easygoing yet engaging sound.

Thanks for the advice on the capacitance loading. Though my phono doesn't have the dial control that gets me the exact total value, I'll find a quiet night for the feel

LP60X is a funny TT and I did disassemble it for RPM and VTF tunning. Fluance is a quality brand to me for the sake of continuous release of models with improvement. I ever said I would get the RT87 (double-layer plinths & hanging weight for AS which don't exist for TT near the price) if it's released before I bought the LP7 half year ago. How do you feel about the ATN91 and ATN3600LC? I ever used 91R on 3600L cart and it worked

 

[jrtrent]

Thanks for the advice on the capacitance loading. Though my phono doesn't have the dial control that gets me the exact total value, I'll find a quiet night for the feel

LP60X is a funny TT and I did disassemble it for RPM and VTF tunning. Fluance is a quality brand to me for the sake of continuous release of models with improvement. I ever said I would get the RT87 (double-layer plinths & hanging weight for AS which don't exist for TT near the price) if it's released before I bought the LP7 half year ago. How do you feel about the ATN91 and ATN3600LC? I ever used 91R on 3600L cart and it worked

Sadly, before it was even broken in, I managed to send the ATN91 bouncing across a record and onto the label. Not having a local audio dealer with stylus inspection equipment, I choose to discard styli that I've potentially damaged. I don't recall having mishandling issues like that in my first fifty-six years in the hobby, but I've tossed three styli due to clumsiness in the past six years (one on an LP120XUSB I bought a year and a half ago that I ended up not liking as much as the LP60X). Some joint and tendon damage, hands a bit less steady than they used to be, and a blind left eye affecting depth perception are all good reasons why I need to remember to just use the cue lever!

I had ordered an ATN3600LC anyway just because I wanted to compare using the same stylus that was on the LP60X. I might try an ATN91R, too; that was AT's suggested stylus replacement for their CN5625AL cartridge (as well as their suggested upgrade for both the AT91 and AT3600L), and I had liked that on a Rega RP3 some years ago.

 

[kyle]

I bought this cart because I wanted an extra headshell and the price for both was less than I could find a headshell for. It's obviously not an AT cart but they sell it a "Advanced AT-VM95EH" I have no idea what it's a copy of. I couldn't find anything online that resembled this one. The cart doesn't sound bad, similar to a ATN3600LC that I have but a bit brighter. It's a bonded conical not elliptical as the model number would suggest. It has threaded inserts. The stylus is replaceable but I can't imagine that there are replacements available. The headshell is pretty good. All metal, OK leads and hardware.

 

[james73_2010]

Hi Jrtrent, I used 100k ohm loading. It ended up with more treble and little more and tighter bass. I'm 52 and I dont hear anything above 12kHz. Most built-in phono amp are bad with at-lp60x, at-lp70x and at-lp7 in my journey. now i played all mm cartridge with 100k ohm loading except one I used loading plug to get equivalent loading of 53k ohm.

Forgot to say, I just used the bundled phono cable (with ground wire) which is about 135nF and I set the capacitive loading at 20nF on the phono amp.

edited to add:

Btw, I tried AIN3600SLC which was with a crap structure though it sounded clear. Vivid line was good but I would consider a better cartridge such as AT-VM700 with a stylus profile of the same price such as VMN20.

This one from LPGear?



How does it sound? Is there any info included in the packaging about the specs of the stylus tip?

Sorry for going a bit off-topic, but I've been fascinated with that LPGear stylus since I saw it, but importing it to Scotland would cost me an arm and a leg on top of it's sale price.

 

[jrtrent]

. . . Sorry for going a bit off-topic, but I've been fascinated with that LPGear stylus since I saw it, but importing it to Scotland would cost me an arm and a leg on top of it's sale price.

You are not off-topic at all! The original post in this thread went into detail about alternative styli, with the OP saying, "I personally prefer the ViVid Line stylus."

 

[james73_2010]

Thanks.

You're a brilliant conversationalist.

I'll be back in the future to hear more of your exclusive and detailed insights when asked a simple general question........

 

[thw61]

Sadly, before it was even broken in, I managed to send the ATN91 bouncing across a record and onto the label. Not having a local audio dealer with stylus inspection equipment, I choose to discard styli that I've potentially damaged. I don't recall having mishandling issues like that in my first fifty-six years in the hobby, but I've tossed three styli due to clumsiness in the past six years (one on an LP120XUSB I bought a year and a half ago that I ended up not liking as much as the LP60X). Some joint and tendon damage, hands a bit less steady than they used to be, and a blind left eye affecting depth perception are all good reasons why I need to remember to just use the cue lever!

I had ordered an ATN3600LC anyway just because I wanted to compare using the same stylus that was on the LP60X. I might try an ATN91R, too; that was AT's suggested stylus replacement for their CN5625AL cartridge (as well as their suggested upgrade for both the AT91 and AT3600L), and I had liked that on a Rega RP3 some years ago.

I believed there are many ways (loadings, etc) to play around with 3600L. Personally I could ride a record as low as 1.25g without audible distortion.
BTW, thanks for your hints about the capacitance loading. I found better 'balance' with 3xx nF.

 

[thw61]

This one from LPGear?



How does it sound? Is there any info included in the packaging about the specs of the stylus tip?

Sorry for going a bit off-topic, but I've been fascinated with that LPGear stylus since I saw it, but importing it to Scotland would cost me an arm and a leg on top of it's sale price.

(edited)
Yes, I have this one and lost my temper after I discovered the wrong azimuth (under my 10x loupe).
- the cartridge doesn't fit well into my 3600L cart on LP60x or another 3600L cart with headshell I put on my LP7 (i.e. I didn't feel the 'click' as I did with Conical / Elliptical replacement stylus)
- cantilever is just stuck into the suspension (I didn't know about it or otherwise I could rotate it to fix the azimuth issue)
- the screw could be loosen and 'release the suspension completely
I lost my temper and broke the suspension part. I wouldn't shop there anymore.
However I still have the Vivid line as part of the whole purchase in my drawer.

 

[thw61]

just to attach my broken ain3600slc as a proof of the ownership. the cantilever wasnt stick tightly to the suspension and i could rotate it freely. besides i recall the magnet was so close to the coils in my cart that ever stopped one side's movement such that no sound was from that channel.

in general i like 3600LC more than 3600LE for the cost and all rounder.

 

[james73_2010]

.

 

[cafe latte]

(edited)
Yes, I have this one and lost my temper after I discovered the wrong azimuth (under my 10x loupe).
- the cartridge doesn't fit well into my 3600L cart on LP60x or another 3600L cart with headshell I put on my LP7 (i.e. I didn't feel the 'click' as I did with Conical / Elliptical replacement stylus)
- cantilever is just stuck into the suspension (I didn't know about it or otherwise I could rotate it to fix the azimuth issue)
- the screw could be loosen and 'release the suspension completely
I lost my temper and broke the suspension part. I wouldn't shop there anymore.
However I still have the Vivid line as part of the whole purchase in my drawer.

With a conical Azimuth does not really matter as a conical well conical and the tip is rounded so in correct azimuth you still wnd up with similar contact patchs so you have likely broke it for nothing.
Chris

 

[jrtrent]

With a conical Azimuth does not really matter as a conical well conical and the tip is rounded so in correct azimuth you still wnd up with similar contact patchs so you have likely broke it for nothing.

The stylus that thw61 is referring to is LP Gear's AIN3600SLC, a $350 model that is described as having a "Special Line Contact (SLC) diamond tip." Being a conical user stylus myself, I appreciate your information that they are more tolerant of azimuth error.