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2M Black needle literally missing off of stylus...Options?

L5hunter

L5hunter

New Member
I literally mean the actual stylus piece is completely missing the needle. I'll upload pics later. Almost a year ago, I bought a mint Technics 1210M5G from a pawn shop for $250, and it was a no brainer because we all know the 2M Black itself (which was included) is worth that. Sometime between me reserving it on layaway and me coming back for it, the idiots in the pawn shop didn't secure the tonearm and when I inspected it the tonearm had of course fallen and was pressed against the body of the turntable with some force. The stylus molding was there, but the needle/stylus itself was missing. I settled for $50 off, because I'd rather do that than a complete refund of a turntable worth much more. I used the $50 to buy a 2M Red stylus, put it on the Black cart, and I've been happy since then. But of course, I'm feeling the compulsive urge to upgrade, and since I still have the cart and most of the stylus I can't help thinking that Ortofon should be able to repair my stylus, even for a marginal fee. It's certainly cheaper than a Black stylus. Any thoughts?
 
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Here's the pics. See what I mean?
 
Welcome to Audiokarma!

What comes as a surprise to many turntable owners is that the stylus assembly is actually the major manufacturing cost of the cartridge, not the body, at least for moving magnet types. (Moving coils, different deal, sometimes). The 2M Black is a Shibata tip configuration, and frankly amazes me to this day that such a literally microscopic, complex shape can even be made at all.

In any event, it isn't practical to rebuild this stylus, because it's not cost effective vs. simply buying a new one. But on the good side, as you've discovered, the body accommodates anything in the 2M line, including the very reasonably priced Red.
 
I know I'm in the minority but if it was me I'd buy a new Bronze stylus vs a Black. I've heard both in a Black body and like the bronze much better,
 
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L5hunter said:
I still have the cart and most of the stylus I can't help thinking that Ortofon should be able to repair my stylus, even for a marginal fee. It's certainly cheaper than a Black stylus. Any thoughts?
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Nothing wrong with trying, contact Ortofon customer service. :)
 
image.jpeg Hello congrats on your 1210 M5g turntable. I have one as well and paid more than that for mine but not as much as they are selling for now. In fact all the nicer condition 1200s are going for crazy money in my area and selling. I like the Ortofon blue on my 1200M3D as it has a really strong in the midrange and not as harsh as the red. The pic is my M5G with the blue. Also there is a 1200 owners forum.
 
Classic_CJ said:
Welcome to Audiokarma!

What comes as a surprise to many turntable owners is that the stylus assembly is actually the major manufacturing cost of the cartridge, not the body, at least for moving magnet types. (Moving coils, different deal, sometimes). The 2M Black is a Shibata tip configuration, and frankly amazes me to this day that such a literally microscopic, complex shape can even be made at all.

In any event, it isn't practical to rebuild this stylus, because it's not cost effective vs. simply buying a new one. But on the good side, as you've discovered, the body accommodates anything in the 2M line, including the very reasonably priced Red.
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I had expected as much, thank you for the wonderful explanation CJ. It is amazing to me as well.
 
Now on to the slightly controversial question: is there a clearly audible, night and day difference between a Red and a Black/Bronze? I realize this is a dumb question, but it's hard for me to justify spending twice what I spent on the turntable for a needle.
 
L5hunter said:
Now on to the slightly controversial question: is there a clearly audible, night and day difference between a Red and a Black/Bronze? I realize this is a dumb question, but it's hard for me to justify spending twice what I spent on the turntable for a needle.
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Yes, there is a pretty big difference among those three stylus. :music:

2 M Red Stylus type - Elliptical

2 M Bronze Stylus type - Nude Fine Line

2 M Black Stylus type - Nude Shibata
 
needlestein said:
If you've been around the boards long enough, this issue seems to come up a bit specifically with the 2M Black. This is the third that I've seen. The other two were from people who swore they were just lightly cleaning it per recommended procedures and the cantilever slipped out.

So, to me it's kind of irrelevant that it happened at a pawn shop. I'd call customer service and let them know that the cantilever fell off and that it seems to be an issue based on repeated posts on the Internet by people with the same problem. Go ahead and Google it and see why you find.

I'd try to get Ortofon to meet me halfway at least. The fact that it was part of a pawn shop transaction etc. to me is irrelevant.

Ortofon makes some cool stuff, but their quality isn't always where it should be. I have one of the self-denuding Quintet Blacks. The outer shell is just glued in place and just falls off. If it breaks your cantilever in the process, then what? The new ones have a screw holding it on, so it must have led to customer service problems and refunds.

That's totally unacceptable for a $1000 cartridge--even a $250 cartridge.

Of course, I can't really complain. I got my Quintet Black for less than 1/2 price because it denuded itself with someone else and they couldn't get it back together so they put it on eBay. However, I took a big risk because the seller disguised that it came apart and he bungled the reassembly--so basically dishonest seller. But I fixed it so I didn't care.

But the seller should have dealt with Ortofon and gotten a new one. They are known to drop apart, particularly if you follow their advice and keep the stylus guard on it at all times when not in use. The act of removing the right-fitting stylus guard weakens the glue joint and then the shell pops off. Like I said, new issue have addressed this glitch.
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Wow, very helpful reply. That's exactly what happened, the needle was missing, but the metal rod it sits on(cantilever?) was still there when I picked up the table. When I was inspected the missing needle, the whole rod fell out of the stylus itself. Absolutely unacceptable for a near $1000 stylus.
 
I say you have nothing to lose. Many years ago my LM10 developed a hum in the left channel a few months after I bought it. The dealer refused to honor the warranty, claiming I had abused it. I mailed the cartridge to Ortofon in Denmark, and they responded with apologies, an explanation saying that examining the cartridge revealed that the interior hum strap had become disconnected, and they directed their Canadian distributor to mail me a new cartridge at no cost.
 
needlestein said:
So, to me it's kind of irrelevant that it happened at a pawn shop. I'd call customer service [....]
I'd try to get Ortofon to meet me halfway at least.
Ortofon makes some cool stuff, but If it breaks your cantilever in the process, then [....]QUOTE]

That's when they start getting all up your bidness speakin' that Dutch slang.
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L5hunter said:
Wow, very helpful reply. That's exactly what happened, the needle was missing, but the metal rod it sits on(cantilever?) was still there when I picked up the table. When I was inspected the missing needle, the whole rod fell out of the stylus itself. Absolutely unacceptable for a near $1000 stylus.
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No, it's not nor is it Ortofons responsibility. The pawn shop mishandled it and damaged the stylus. Not Ortofons fault or responsibility. The cantilever, if it could be examined, most likely would have a sheared tip as boron fractures. This would be consistent from being struck hard again the plinth or platter. Having it fall off is another indicator of it being sheared from being struck hard.

You accepted a $50 adjustment, which is far below the cost of a replacement stylus. That is your mistake, live with it and pay what their selling price is, or buy another cartridge. The bottom line is the cartridge was abused, and the damage is not their fault or responsibility.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
No, it's not nor is it Ortofons responsibility. The pawn shop mishandled it and damaged the stylus. Not Ortofons fault or responsibility. The cantilever, if it could be examined, most likely would have a sheared tip as boron fractures. This would be consistent from being struck hard again the plinth or platter. Having it fall off is another indicator of it being sheared from being struck hard.

You accepted a $50 adjustment, which is far below the cost of a replacement stylus. That is your mistake, live with it and pay what their selling price is, or buy another cartridge. The bottom line is the cartridge was abused, and the damage is not their fault or responsibility.

Regards
Mister Pig
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When I said "Absolutely unacceptable for a near $1000 stylus", I meant the other reported issues with the stylus, not mine specifically. I acknowledge that it was of course the pawn shop's fault, I am simply looking into options for repair or restoration of the stylus itself. I accepted $50 compensation because it was the pawn shop's fault, I am not looking for compensation from Ortofon. No need to get hostile, I am new to this forum and I should have elaborated on my statement a bit more. I think it is unreasonable to have to pay full retail for a new stylus, when I have a majority of the stylus still intact. I understand that the stylus is costly to manufacture due to the diamond needle, but surely they offer a rebuild service? I can think of numerous other manufacturers that offer it, namely Soundsmith who offers a $250 rebuild on the entire cartridge. I apologize if people interpreted me as blaming Ortofon in this particular instance, I simply meant the specific issues that needlestein stated.
 
You bought used, so no warranty or compensation should be expected from Ortofon. The price from the pawn shop was fair to begin with and to get a price break was also fair. They could sell the table to the next guy with no cartridge for the full price easily and who knows what shape the stylus was in anyway.

No drama, no fault; you still did ok.

I'd get a new stylus and move on. Spend as much as you like. The bronze is probably the sweet spot for sound per dollar.
 
L5hunter said:
When I said "Absolutely unacceptable for a near $1000 stylus", I meant the other reported issues with the stylus, not mine specifically. I acknowledge that it was of course the pawn shop's fault, I am simply looking into options for repair or restoration of the stylus itself. I accepted $50 compensation because it was the pawn shop's fault, I am not looking for compensation from Ortofon. No need to get hostile, I am new to this forum and I should have elaborated on my statement a bit more. I think it is unreasonable to have to pay full retail for a new stylus, when I have a majority of the stylus still intact. I understand that the stylus is costly to manufacture due to the diamond needle, but surely they offer a rebuild service? I can think of numerous other manufacturers that offer it, namely Soundsmith who offers a $250 rebuild on the entire cartridge. I apologize if people interpreted me as blaming Ortofon in this particular instance, I simply meant the specific issues that needlestein stated.
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The cantilever and diamond are gone, there is nothing of consequence to rebuild. The plastic grip is a part worth pennies.

The $250 Sound Smith retie is inferior to the stock stylus. Their comparable rebuild with boron cantilever costs $350. No matter how you approach it, a rebuild of an Ortofon Black is three bills to get it back to proper trim.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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Most people around the forums probably wouldn't have trusted a stylus of unknown history, anyway. If I got that turntable for that price, I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them to complain about the stylus.
 
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