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A new sound for the DL-103r

Jota2

Jota2

Active Member
I recenty switched over to a kenwood 700C preamp /700m amp and wanted to give my Denon DL-103r a listen with it. I tried the Cenemag 3440ah. I thought the DL-103r sounded really good. Then I tried the Altec lansings 4722s maybe a little more colored but overall a much more enjoyable listen. I know many bash the 103/103r but I think its sounding really great.
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Jota2 said:
I know many bash the 103/103r but I think its sounding really great.
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I'm using one in my main system. I think it's pretty gooood!!! I wasn't aware of the bashing though. The upmost sign of disrespect I ever picked up about the 103R is a pal saying to me 'yeah, sure you have one, everyone loves the 103". That's the worst I've ever got...
 
tnsilver said:
I'm using one in my main system. I think it's pretty gooood!!! I wasn't aware of the bashing though. The upmost sign of disrespect I ever picked up about the 103R is a pal saying to me 'yeah, sure you have one, everyone loves the 103". That's the worst I've ever got...
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Yes the 103 does not get the respect it has earned.
Being a low compliance cart it can sound thin if mismatched. They sound better after adding some mass by re-potting (which will generally improve the mounting) and using a mid to high mass arm.
Then the " it's cheap so can only sound ok at best" detractors chime in.
 
Jota2 said:
They are to those who have heard them at their best.
Click to expand...

Denon DL-103

Millions have heard them at their best over radio broadcast and like them.

Great industrial cartridge developed by Denon in conjunction with NHK. :music:
dl103.jpg


Released - April 1970
  • Power generation method
    • Moving coil type
  • Output voltage
    • 0.3mV (1000Hz 50mm / sec horizontal direction)
  • Left / right sensitivity difference
    • Within 1dB
  • Left / right separation
    • 25dB or more (1kHz)
  • Electrical impedance
    • 40Ω ± 20% (1kHz)
  • Load resistance
    • 100Ω or more (otherwise when using a transformer)
  • compliance
    • 5 × 10 -6 cm / dyne (measured with a record)
  • Needle tip radius
    • 16.5 microns (0.65 mil)
  • Needle pressure
  • https://www.denon.jp/jp/museum/products/dl103_2.html
 
Balifly said:
Denon DL-103

Millions have heard them at their best over radio broadcast and like them.

Great industrial cartridge developed by Denon in conjunction with NHK. :music:
dl103.jpg


Released - April 1970
  • Power generation method
    • Moving coil type
  • Output voltage
    • 0.3mV (1000Hz 50mm / sec horizontal direction)
  • Left / right sensitivity difference
    • Within 1dB
  • Left / right separation
    • 25dB or more (1kHz)
  • Electrical impedance
    • 40Ω ± 20% (1kHz)
  • Load resistance
    • 100Ω or more (otherwise when using a transformer)
  • compliance
    • 5 × 10 -6 cm / dyne (measured with a record)
  • Needle tip radius
    • 16.5 microns (0.65 mil)
  • Needle pressure
  • https://www.denon.jp/jp/museum/products/dl103_2.html
Click to expand...
Yep, I would imagine the majority had no idea what they were listening to and likely didnt care. I would also wager that once it hit the airwaves they lost a lot. Having said that I dont think any cart ever has seen so many hrs of play.
 
Jota2 said:
Yes the 103 does not get the respect it has earned.
Being a low compliance cart it can sound thin if mismatched. They sound better after adding some mass by re-potting (which will generally improve the mounting) and using a mid to high mass arm.
Then the " it's cheap so can only sound ok at best" detractors chime in.
Click to expand...

" I know many bash the 103/103r "

"Yes the 103 does not get the respect it has earned."

"Then the " it's cheap so can only sound ok at best" detractors chime in."

I am curious to know why you are baiting other board members to either disagree with you, or by juxtaposition create a negative vibe where people want to agree with you to dispel the false narrative being created.

Why do people have to be either 103/103R supporters, or the haters? Why is there not an in between, folks who like it, or appreciate them, but don't feel the need to own a 103/103R?

I have owned Denon cartridges I love, and still own one. My personal favorite of the 103 series is the 103M. To me its a wonderful cartridge, and a classic. I also love the 304. But I liked the 103M so much that I bought its modern updated equivilent, the DL-S1. A great Denon product, and one I plan on keeping for a long time as a daily driver in my system.

But coming back to the crux of my post. Why force others to choose one side or the other? Why can't people just enjoy the cartridges they do, and for us to appreciate a very nice TD 124/SME/Denon combo you have put together?

Cheers
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
" I know many bash the 103/103r "

"Yes the 103 does not get the respect it has earned."

"Then the " it's cheap so can only sound ok at best" detractors chime in."

I am curious to know why you are baiting other board members to either disagree with you, or by juxtaposition create a negative vibe where people want to agree with you to dispel the false narrative being created.

Why do people have to be either 103/103R supporters, or the haters? Why is there not an in between, folks who like it, or appreciate them, but don't feel the need to own a 103/103R?

I have owned Denon cartridges I love, and still own one. My personal favorite of the 103 series is the 103M. To me its a wonderful cartridge, and a classic. I also love the 304. But I liked the 103M so much that I bought its modern updated equivilent, the DL-S1. A great Denon product, and one I plan on keeping for a long time as a daily driver in my system.

But coming back to the crux of my post. Why force others to choose one side or the other? Why can't people just enjoy the cartridges they do, and for us to appreciate a very nice TD 124/SME/Denon combo you have put together?

Cheers
Mister Pig
Click to expand...
Mister Pig said:
" I know many bash the 103/103r "

"Yes the 103 does not get the respect it has earned."

"Then the " it's cheap so can only sound ok at best" detractors chime in."

I am curious to know why you are baiting other board members to either disagree with you, or by juxtaposition create a negative vibe where people want to agree with you to dispel the false narrative being created.

Why do people have to be either 103/103R supporters, or the haters? Why is there not an in between, folks who like it, or appreciate them, but don't feel the need to own a 103/103R?

I have owned Denon cartridges I love, and still own one. My personal favorite of the 103 series is the 103M. To me its a wonderful cartridge, and a classic. I also love the 304. But I liked the 103M so much that I bought its modern updated equivilent, the DL-S1. A great Denon product, and one I plan on keeping for a long time as a daily driver in my system.

But coming back to the crux of my post. Why force others to choose one side or the other? Why can't people just enjoy the cartridges they do, and for us to appreciate a very nice TD 124/SME/Denon combo you have put together?

Cheers
Mister Pig
Click to expand...
Well first off I wasn't intentionally" baiting " anyone. I was initially commenting on how I liked the 4722 Altecs over the Cenemat.

Yes, I did comment about the like / dislike for the DL- 103 series , that is generally known. Again the Altecs sound great paired with the DL-103r

Thanks for the compliment. I will keep my "baiting" to a minimum .
 
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I've been sitting on a brand new 103R and a pair of Cinemag 1254 for over a year now. I have all the parts for a box, but no time to work on it. We moved last year and house stuff has been consuming all my free time. Ultimately, I want try it on an Audio Research FR-24 or SME 3009 II (unimproved). Hope to get this up and running over the winter. This would be my first MC.
 
Frankly I can’t recall any detractors from the 103 or any of the variants. My favorite is the D model. Tan colored outer shell followed closely by a 103 nude and mounted in a Musikraft shell. Super sound improvement with that setup. Also have the clear anniversary model but have never mounted that.
 
Although generally revered here I’ve seen it bashed on some other sites. I remember one in particular that said it was overhyped garbage with a terrible stylus that couldn’t accurately reproduce any type of sound!

My experience is the same as yours - much preferred other SUT to the Cinemag 3440, in my case a redboy made microtrans unit. Took the plunge on a A23 unit and love that too. Combined with the right arm SUT etc the cart really opens up.
 
My first MC cart was a 103. I used an AT transformer and it sounded very clean and detailed. Traded it 3 weeks later for a 301. I kept it about 2 weeks after I had heard a Grace F9e Super. Still might get another 301. I'm a cartoholic.
 
ConfuciusSay said:
I remember one in particular that said it was overhyped garbage with a terrible stylus that couldn’t accurately reproduce any type of sound!
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he he he... That's funny. It says more about the basher than about the 103. Truthfully, it can actually get that way with a very easy to achieve cart tonearm mismatch. Slap a perfectly good 103 on an excellent low effective mass 3009 and you get a disaster like that. It's an effective mass hog of a cart. It just wants those hefty tonearms of the by gone broadcasting days. Give it what it wants and it will sing for ya. Deny it what it was designed for and you'll end up frustrated.
 
After going through a decent quantity of rare and highly regarded quality vintage cartridges over the past few years I have fallen back in love with the plain old 103. With the right arm (mine is 26g effective mass) it is extremely enjoyable.

I also own a 103M which I haven't tried yet.
 
I own a 103 and 103r and both provide plenty of enjoyment. I use them as a standard to judge other cartridges on. I had a 103 years ago that was highly modified that I wish I had not sold.
 
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