A newbie writes...

[Kaede]

Hello there and Happy New Year to you guys, I've been browsing the forums for a few days and would like to ask for some advice.

I'm a complete newbie to the record collecting scene having wanted to get into it for some time. Well, this Christmas my girlfriend got me a couple of my favourite albums on Vinyl to start me off so now I need a set up to play them on!

I've been trying to work out everything I need and what would be best for me but I'm finding all this talk of amps, pre-amps, receivers, cartridges etc. etc. a little overwhelming. So, here's what I'm looking to do:

I simply want a nice turntable for me to play my records on, in my bedroom. I understand that I'll need good speakers to get the best out of the auidio quality so I'll need those as well. If the speakers aren't powered then I'll need an amp with which to power them? I'd also like to be able to hook the system up to my PC so I can transfer any purchased records to my PC and keep them as mp3s. I've seen a few 'USB turntables' for sale but I can only assume they aren't of the best quality for playing back records? For the time being I don't want to spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds on equipment, I'd like to see how this hobby turns out before progressing to the big boys toys

So if anyone could help out suggesting what kind of set up I would need or any paticular makes/brands I should be looking out for, that would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers for checking out my thread, hope you guys can help me out!

Regards,
K

 

[ehoove]

Welcome to AK! You can expect all kinds of responses here, and a search for starter systems might be in order. Remember the search option is your friend!
Regards,
Jim

 

[Rome]

Greetings to ya!

Rome

 

[electronjohn]

To start with...only a handful of modern mass-market receivers have a phono input. A Sherwood model (can't remember model#) for not much over $100 offers that feature...and is a decent receiver as well. "Tape out" to "line in" on your PC & you're good to go. A cable (or adapter) taking 2 RCA plugs down to 1/8" stereo is needed as well. Turntable? Good vintage+good cart= Have fun!

 

[bobaloniny]

To start with...only a handful of modern mass-market receivers have a phono input. A Sherwood model (can't remember model#) for not much over $100 offers that feature...and is a decent receiver as well. "Tape out" to "line in" on your PC & you're good to go. A cable (or adapter) taking 2 RCA plugs down to 1/8" stereo is needed as well. Turntable? Good vintage+good cart= Have fun!

What he said..:thmbsp:
I think as a first tt, you would want to get one that is muss free as possible, something reasonable in price, a solid machine to get used to the whole thing, and then eventually you can upgrade if youd like. Technics direct drive model may be a good pricepoint to work with 20-50 dollars I should think. Not sure how nuts you should go with a cartridge for the time being, there are some decent audio technicas out and about for like 40 or so. I think I may start there. Point is I think, no sense in throwing monstrous money around at this juncture. Yeah you can get way better whatever, we all can, but as your interest grows or doesnt, and you develop your own taste with this kind of thing, then you can decide where the money goes in a whole lot more informed fashion. Getting your feet wet for a couple hundred initially isnt so bad (cost of an ipod more or less). Also, the smart money would be on used speakers. In your case, maybe some larger bookshelf speakers would be good, unless you have a really large bedroom that justifies a floorstanding speaker. There will be plenty more thought and advice on this Im sure. Good luck, youre gonna be happy..I promise.

 

[Jim M]

Where are you located? I am guessing UK or ??
The reason I ask is the voltage requirements of the equipment may limit the suggestions.

An entry level vintage receiver can be had for not too much money and is a great start for any system. Sansui and others made some nice multiple voltage units that would work well.

 

[Kaede]

Guys, many thanks for your replies it's Much aprreciated.

Jim M - Yep, I'm located in London, UK. Sorry to ask such a dumb question, but can anyone tell me exactly what a receiver is? The way I have it pictured is that the turntable connects to the amp or pre-amp which amplifies the sound and powers the speakers. Not sure what or where a receiver fits into this?

Receiver – an integrated amplifier with a tuner also included

This doesn't make much sense to me I'm afraid. :scratch2:

bobaloniny - Thanks for the tips. What you've said makes a lot of sense. I do just want to start out with a basic set up and then see how I progress. I've been looking at direct-drive (better than belt drive right?) Technics turntables but even used ones availabe in the UK on ebay are going for like £80-100 ($120+++!)

I'll be sure to get doing some searches of the forum in the meantime.

EDIT: I've just found a Sansui turntable for a good price. 'Sansui SR 222 Mark II Turntable complete with NAD Cartridge. Turntable cover has black insulation material fitted to inside to reduce noise through the Turntable.' Looks in good condition too.

Are these any good? It has belt drive and plays 33's and 45's.

Thanks again,
K

 

[Oerets]

Receiver = Radio , Integrated no Radio .

If I lived in the UK I'd be looking at NAD TT's IMHO ....


I own belt and direct drive tables , both are good . Don't have a preference .

BTW welcome aboard Kaede




Barney

 

[bobaloniny]

Well, Sansui has been tweaked slightly, shows the last owner was an enthusiast of sorts. If its a good price (in the budget) then consider it strongly. Be nice if you had an audible reference point to work from, because I would definitely want to hear this one before taking the plunge. Could be an enthusiast that likes to play, could be an enthusiast that had a real prob with this, tried to get the prob solved, and gave up in frustration. Hopefully the former scenario. Just dont get nervous and jump for the sake of impatience..remember, you have managed to breath on your own and maintain bodily functions without a tt up to this point, a few extra days shouldnt make a diff. As far as receiver vs integrated amplifier go..bottom line is odds are you can find a receiver (int amp with built in tuner) that works well for less money than the integrated, or at least thats the experience here. Example being, a 30 wpc receiver could be had for 30 units of money, an integrated amp 30 wpc by the same manufacturer may be more like 50-60 units and more. At least thats my theory, and that trend can be researched by just doing a few searches on that e auction site.

 

[orionkc]

It may help to post your location as there are many AK members that would be more than happy to help you get started on your journey. :yes: Where ya from?

 

[Fisherdude]

Well, I'll take a run at this for ya!...

A turntable, as you know, doesn't have an amplifier built in. The turntable will have output jacks or an output cable with the Left/Right connections. You plug this into...

...an amplifier setup that has input jacks on the back that are labeled "Phono", and one of the selections on the big switch on the front will be "Phono". This is very important, because the music signal coming out of your turntable has been altered by something called the RIAA equalization curve, and it must be corrected. The "Phono" input setting on your amp will do this for you. If you just run the turntable outputs into the "Line In" jack on your computer sound card, or run your turntable into the "Aux" or "CD" inputs on an amp, it will sound like crap.

There are several different combinations of amplifier components:

An audio power amplifier does just that...amplifies an audio signal. It has a pair of input jacks for the output of the preamplifier, speaker connections on the back, and an on/off switch.

The preamplifier connects to the front of the power amplifier. The preamplifier is the box with all the input jacks for all your source components like CD players, turntables (IF it has the "Phono" input!), tape players, AM/FM tuner, etc. It's also the component with the volume control, tone controls, balance control, etc.

A separate preamplifier/power amplifier combo is usually only used by "audiophiles".

An integrated amplifier has both the preamplifier and the power amplifier built together in one component. Very handy, and readily available.

A receiver has a radio tuner and an integrated amplifier built into one component.

The preamplifier, or an integrated amplifier, or a receiver, may or may not have a built-in phono section or stage. Older, vintage units usually do, newer models usually don't. Well, except for brand new ones made after LPs starting getting hot again!

If you want to use your computer sound card and computer speakers, you'll need to run your turntable output through a phono preamplifier and then to your sound card. If you run your turntable through the phono section of your integrated amp or receiver, you'll need to take the output from the "Pre-Out" jacks on the back, and then to your computer. If your integrated or receiver doesn't have these pre-out jacks, you won't be able to use it with your computer, because taking the output from the speaker connections will put way, way too much power into your computer sound card.

A USB turntable is designed to be used with a computer, so it has a phono stage built in. The problem with these is not that the sound is automatically bad, it's just that they are quite inexpensive, so the cartridge is not the best, and the stylus is not the best, the tracking force is usually not adjustable, and if the tracking force is too high and the stylus is poor quality, it's possible to damage records. While it might be an inexpensive way to get started, it's money spent that really won't give lasting value.

If you have the time to look for used equipment, that's always a money saving option. I would suggest NOT buying turntables off eBay. There is way more than a 50% probability that it will arrive damaged due to inadequate packing. Shipping turntables safely takes dedication and experience.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. Hope it helps!

 

[Kaede]

:thmbsp:

It may help to post your location as there are many AK members that would be more than happy to help you get started on your journey. :yes: Where ya from?

orionkc - I'm from East London, England. I can't be the only cockney record fan on here can I?

Well, Sansui has been tweaked slightly, shows the last owner was an enthusiast of sorts. If its a good price (in the budget) then consider it strongly. Be nice if you had an audible reference point to work from, because I would definitely want to hear this one before taking the plunge. Could be an enthusiast that likes to play, could be an enthusiast that had a real prob with this, tried to get the prob solved, and gave up in frustration. Hopefully the former scenario.

Thanks for that bobaloniny. All I can say is that from the pics it looks to be in very good condition and searching the Sansui section on this forum brings up some positive views.

Fisherdude - ......wow! :thmbsp: Honestly, thank you so much for taking the time to post that. Pretty much cleared up everything I was trying to get to grips with! I've c&p and sent it to my email address as a back up. Also, thanks for the advice regarding ebay. Although having used it for a while I don't think I'd want my TT been posted out either, so I was just looking at auctions with the buyer to collect option.

Just out of interest, this is the USB turntable I was looking at. I've deffo taken your advice on board, but if I get a good amp and speakers to go with it, the quality should still be quite good right? It might be fine to start me off and then if I get into it I could get a more expensive turntable and keep this one for the odd archiving purposes. I should say that for me, it's more about the music and owning my favourite records on Vinyl that's getting me into this, although I obviously want to enjoy that 'alive', deep feeling you get when listening to records.

Once again guys, thanks for the help. Really appreciated.

Regards,
K

 

[bobaloniny]

welllll, looked at it, and it approaches a normal looking tt. I may not have noticed, but if you have analog in on your puters soundcard then you dont need the usb capabilities. Other thing Im thinking is that they make such a production out of including audacity...as a selling point. Audacity is a free program, including all the steps to convert to mp3 or wav. So..you could download that right now from cnet and read the faqs and help and all that so you know whats going on that way.
Dont know what quality that tt is, looks ok in a small picture, frankly they just plain make me nervous. I would rather use all old school and then just tag the modern stuff on the tail end, might be just a matter of principal. This discussion may just be null and void if you dont have analog in, then it would be do what you have to do, though Im sure theres a device that can do the conversion if need be.
Another thing I saw on this usb tt you are looking at is that you can either/or as far as output goes (as far as I can tell), thats a plus.
Hopefully maybe someone has experience with this and can say if its decent or a waste of time and money.
Either way you go, I would guess you would still need receiver or integrated amplifier and speakers, be a pity to be listening through a laptops speakers.

 

[Dynacophil]

Hi
the early Sansui SR222 is a nice middleclass player with medium weight S-shaped arm. I would use a Ortofon MC1 Turbo or MC3 Turbo on it... (I heard MC1 it on this player). I own the MK V Version of it, which is completely different beast, high mass straight arm...

what the heck is it about that insulation voodoo?

btw... sorry that I didn't find an english2cockney translator online

p.s. all usb tt are junk (ok, nearly all)

ah, finally found it:

Lawd above! Hey, welcome ter AK you analog maggot noob!, innit.

I've just found a Sansui turntable for a good price. 'Sansui SR 222 Mark II Turntable complete with NAD Cartridge. Turntable cover has black insulation material fitted to inside to reduce noise through the Turntable.' Looks in good condition too.
Are these any good? It has belt drive and plays 33's and 45's.

Thanks again,
K

 

[Balifly]

If you get the Sansui SR-222, there is a manual for a similar model MKV at VinylEngine.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/sansui/sr-222.shtml
You have to register first before downloading the manual.

 

[Dynacophil]

If you get the Sansui SR-222, there is a manual for a similar model MKV at VinylEngine.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/sansui/sr-222.shtml
You have to register first before downloading the manual.

sorry, MKV is not similar... (except the name and that it's beltdriven)

MK II

MK V (my)
http://img395.imageshack.us/g/sr222mkv046.jpg/

 

["ItsTooLoud"]

As far as integrated amps, don't forget about the Marantz 1060. Great looks, great sound, lots of ins and outs, pre-out/main-in jacks for future expansion, and can be had for under $100US with just a little patience. As has been explained, however, it would NOT have a radio tuner built in.

http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/1060.html

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269884

I've had mine for a couple years on kitchen/computer speaker duty (though it's overkill for the coaxial 6.5" setup in there) and I really like it. I've never heard of anyone saying that they didn't like their 1060 or that they regreted buying it.

 

[terra1]

Short version (really ):

First, check with your girlfriend. Why did she give you records if yo don't have a setup? Maybe she has some ideas. Does she have a setup you can listen to? How does it sound. If it sounds good, maybe you want something like it or better. Check with other friends what they have.

If you still want a USB turntable, do a google search with keywords: best USB turntable(s) or the specific model you are looking at for reviews. Check amazon, they usually have user reveiws. There is a great range from cheap to expensive and by some reputable manufacturers.

You will find many setup and review articles.

From there it really depends on your skills and how soon you want to get up and running.

Vintage turntables: stylus could be worn, may need new belts, cartridge/stylus may need alignment, tracking, anti-skate adjusted, may need manual to know how to operate.

Vintage receiver/amplifiers: may need cleaning, bias or DC adjustments, receiver may need tuner adjustments.

New: With new you get all the manuals and a warranty. And with USB turntables you probably get associated software (although it may be stripped down versions).

I don't know about others here, but before the advent of craigslist or eBay, I got hand me downs or bought new for what I could afford. Using my budget as a guide. As I could afford more, I upgraded.

****

Long version:

"You see by my outfit that I am an audiophile..."

Something to consider are your own skills and comfort with vintage. They may require some cleaning, maintenance and tuner adjustments to perform up to spec. Many here have gone through their growing pains and have skills to deal with many problems. If you do vintage you may want to buy locally where you can test it. eBay has it's own learning curve to get the best deal.

So if you can afford it, you may want to consider new. There is nothing like owning something new you earned. Something that was yours to begin with and you are the first to break it in with your own history and memories. If chosen wisely, it can be your future vintage.

As far as new Sherwoods for two channel stereo, two to look at if I were going new and on a budget are the RX-4109 and RX-5502. I would also seriously consider some Harman Kardons and Onkyos that have phonos as well.

Also you may consider what other special connections and features a newer receiver may have that a vintage will not. How they look, ease of use, and feel.

Vintage turntables you want to consider how much wear the stylus has if it still sounds clean. Whether you want to upgrade the cartridge and do you know how to align and lube it if needed. Does it hold speed.

New turntables, just do your research. Don't assume it isn't good enough just because people look down on it. Some lower end models may not meet your needs but some higher end may. Try looking at your needs and requirements. So don't be embarrassed by what works for you. Can you get a demo? Do you have stereo stores you can browse for other turntables?

Whether new or vintage there should be enough specs and reviews to make a decision. You don't have to be perfect if this for your personal enjoyment rather than creating multimedia wedding journals and the like as a business. And you'll probably upgrade soon enough as you learn.

So you need to weigh how much you want to get into it cheaply and quickly as possible vs maybe some needed work encountering problems with older gear.

I don't know about the others here but my systems changed and evolved as I learned more about what I like. I started with a record player with a built-in speaker. Then later got a receiver, audio/video receiver, then got into separates. My journey was dictated by budget and learning more about what I like to hear.

I had hand me downs. So I saved up for new starting in the 70's. There was no craigslist then. But some of the new I bought have become vintage today: Yamaha CR-800, Pioneer SX-3900. Do your research and choose wisely.

I never felt I made a mistake buying new. I only started getting into vintage the last couple years. And frankly dealing with sellers and components that aren't always what they claimed -- that is when I got disappointed. But that's the risks and potential rewards are also great. But if I hadn't learned to clean, do some minor fixes, and do some tuner, amplifier bias and DC adjustments, I would have quit long ago. Fortunately I already had a fall back foundation of accumulated good working systems before getting into vintage as a hobby and supplement what I had.

"If you buy an outfit ... you can be an audiophile too ..."

 

[theebadone]

I am assuming you live in the U.K. if so, shop the local second hand shops and craigslist and find something thats often talked about here, stick with names like pioneer, sansui, Marantz, kenwood, just to name a few for the amplification, and start with a decent receiver with a good phono stage. (speakers) stay with the names you see talked about often on here, pioneer, AR, JBL, b&w, Electrovoice just to name a few. (turntables) pioneeer, technics, micro seiki, just stick with the well known names and you should be fine. Just be patient and audition anything you find before forkin over the green. And if you find something you haven't heard of before, research it here before you buy it, (if you have time). Half the fun of having a decent system, is putting it together. Sooo be diligent and have fun. good luck