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A TT for my Tastes

Went for the TD-160. Very Stoked.

Should be picking it up next Wednesday.:banana:

Thank you all for your input and help.

My thought process.

The 160 was better built, originally. The 160 is stock, I want to start from the ground up (will be able to listen to it for a while before taking any steps into the mod realm). An AK subscriber referred me to it (tuned it up) and so I know it is a solid 160. And it is $300 (some people may not be willing to pay this for a stock 160, but it is the TT I want and I am willing to spend the $ on a working 160) vs. the $450-550 moded TD-165 I posted earlier. The $150-250 difference basically (in my mind) is like cash that I will set aside to mod the 160 in the future.


This has been months in the making and now I know that there is no going back to living life without vinyl. To be honest, the first $ towards a tweak is probably going to be a subscription to AK.

Here's to eternal bliss and small pockets.


Thanks,
Prefix


:rockon:
 
You did good with a stock 160. You can't go wrong. 300 is right around what they go for. Good deal. ENJOY :music:
 
You bought the better turntable. Although many here demand that prices be so cheap they stole the chunk of gear, it is more than ok to pay a fair price for a piece of gear you want to use to improve you system and not just claim you got a SoundDesign for 10 cents on the dollar of the going rate.

But now the work starts. You need the seller state exactly what was done in this tuneup so that you can determine where you 160 stands as far as regular, special and upgrade maintenance that is posted all over the web.

I'm in the middle of installing a new thrust plate in the bottom of the bearing on a TD-160 Super. Although this table did get all new bearing oil and a burnished spindle increasing the non-belted coast to a stop time from about 45 seconds to over 2 minutes that is still a bit short of really smooth. New thrust plate, oil change, motor lube and then resetting the arm on the table and I'll get it back in the system tonight or tomorrow.

So with the list of what has been done to the table, you can review the Thorens Forum on the vinylengine and see what can be done to bring the table back, the lube for the bearing, thurst plate, motor oil and such are all discussed. Then you have theanalogdept that has the Thorens TD-160 upgrade information and suspension tuning and other great information.

The upgrade info is something you can attack if and when you want as the table sounds great as is. I just tuned up a TD-125/SME for a friend and set it up to as new without going to any of the upgrade steps which can be done after Mike gets used to spinning vinyl. I mean adjusting the foam in the springs and coating all that stuff with talcum powder to lower noise...not when the table is brand new to me or him.

You have a nice canvass to work with now. Something to enjoy to play records. Evaluate tuneup and upgrade options if you want.
 
musichal said:
A link to your new best friend:

http://www.theanalogdept.com/tad_site_map.htm
Click to expand...


What a wealth of information. Some good holiday reading material. I am really excited because the 160 comes with its original Owner's Manual.


Blue Shadow said:
You bought the better turntable. Although many here demand that prices be so cheap they stole the chunk of gear, it is more than ok to pay a fair price for a piece of gear you want to use to improve you system and not just claim you got a SoundDesign for 10 cents on the dollar of the going rate.

But now the work starts. You need the seller state exactly what was done in this tuneup so that you can determine where you 160 stands as far as regular, special and upgrade maintenance that is posted all over the web.

I'm in the middle of installing a new thrust plate in the bottom of the bearing on a TD-160 Super. Although this table did get all new bearing oil and a burnished spindle increasing the non-belted coast to a stop time from about 45 seconds to over 2 minutes that is still a bit short of really smooth. New thrust plate, oil change, motor lube and then resetting the arm on the table and I'll get it back in the system tonight or tomorrow.

So with the list of what has been done to the table, you can review the Thorens Forum on the vinylengine and see what can be done to bring the table back, the lube for the bearing, thurst plate, motor oil and such are all discussed. Then you have theanalogdept that has the Thorens TD-160 upgrade information and suspension tuning and other great information.

The upgrade info is something you can attack if and when you want as the table sounds great as is. I just tuned up a TD-125/SME for a friend and set it up to as new without going to any of the upgrade steps which can be done after Mike gets used to spinning vinyl. I mean adjusting the foam in the springs and coating all that stuff with talcum powder to lower noise...not when the table is brand new to me or him.

You have a nice canvass to work with now. Something to enjoy to play records. Evaluate tuneup and upgrade options if you want.
Click to expand...

Blue Shadow, you really have me thinking about making a checklist so I can hit the ground running when I pick it up. Has anyone actually made a "checklist"? I know there lists of mods and tweaks and I know that I have also seen a list of things to tune up. Do you know of an ordered list (of importance or most affect) to go down and check.

Tons of stuff is embedded in threads, I am sure I will discover some formulated lists as I dig deeper.
 
Just go to the VE Thorens forum and the first post is an overhaul guide. Check it out, make a check list and make the unit sorta like new then you can evaluate upgrades as time, money desire and need dictates.
 
Congrats. Enjoy your new table.

I will be shocked if you don't like your rock records on it; I can't imagine a thorens being poor for playback of any material.
 
The following is a checklist of sorts that I typed out for another 160 owner recently. Other Thorens owners have their own preferences and some/most of these steps may have already been done on yours.

-take dustcover, platters, belt, headshell, cart and counterweight off; set TF and AS dials to zero
-tie the arm to the rest with a piece of cotton
-take off feet and bottom board, while keeping the table upright
-raise the table on two stacks of encyclopedias/books so the table is supported on the left and right edges but allows you to see underneath (even with the aid of a flexible mechanic's mirror)
-check for post production modifications against an online image (search "underside" + "Thorens") (Tim Bailey's suspension tuning on theanalogdept)
-return wiring/earth to original design and order any missing parts second hand from ebay worldwide; order genuine belt
-clean bearing well and inner platter shaft/spindle
-check spindle and bearing well for burrs and correct if neccessary
-polish well and spindle
-clean pulley
-disassemble spring assemblies as per Tim Bailey, clean and re-install.
-apply small amount of oil to spindle and relube bearing well
-"rough in" suspension
-wash mat, polish outer platter
-clean contacts on the micro-switch
-cut an 3/4" MDF board to the shape of the original bottom board
-measure the distances of the spring nuts and cut 20mm holes into the new MDF board, allowing future suspension tuning to be done without removing the bottom board (just have it raised on the "jig" of book stacks and adjust through the 3 holes with a socket and extension.
-OPTIONAL- Apply cork sheet underneath the sub-chassis, order inner platter dampener and spindle/bearing pad (thrust plate) from Joel in Germany
-make sure the TT is level is all and every way.
-order/source a collection of 2mm metric cheese head screws, eg 2 x 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, 12mm & 15mm lengths (sets on ebay)
-clean headshell pins, leads and the slider mechanism that the screws go into; it should freely move back and forth 4 or 5mm.
-check compliance of cart (old or new) to see if it suits the dynamic 16.5g TP-16 arm.
-roughly mount the cart on the headshell and connect to arm, re-install TA and untie from rest
-with a perfectly level table and roughly mounted cart, place a beater record of average thickness on the table and move arm across to lower o to album
-sight the TA from a perpendicular angle, horizontally from the side and look for the top of the arm to be level with the record surface, adjust VTA if required (search 'repeatable+VTA+ Thorens' for Divotdog's thread) Make spacers if required which will require a different length screw set (that you have ordered)
-align using a stevenson (or similar) protactor that has a line-sight for the TA pivot point; align on outer null points with the line sight; check on alignment grid of inner null point (neglecting the line sight for the inner
-go back and forth to ensure correct overhang and alignment were achieved

So at his stage the table is roughly balanced but level. The cart and headshell are remounted with clean pins. The Vertical Tracking Angle is correct (VTA). The stylus contact is aligned in a perfect 90 degree from the horizontal and aligned to the outer and inner null points.

-with the AS and TF still set at zero, balance the arm and lock in the counterweight.
- dial in the recommended TF for the cart.
-check TF with a gauge (smallest, flattest, most accurate gauge you can find - must check TF at album level)
-if true TF is off, adjust the silver knurlled knob at rear of TA until set TF equalls true TF
-adjust AS to approx 3/4 of TF but fine tune by other methods
-fine tune suspension
 
I loved rock on my TD160 but I had to pull it down in favor of my old Rega because it was too prone to footfall in my home. Sometimes I think I like the sound of the Rega better, but mostly I just wish I was listening with the Thorens.
 
Prefix -- FYI on the 160 (as I'm the one who tuned it for the shop): the table needed very little in the way of adjustments. I removed the foam in the springs and did minimal adjustment work on the bounce. Checked the tonearm bearings, checked the belt and speed, lubed the platter bearing, checked the alignment and set VTF. Since the cart wasn't changed (just a new stylus), that made it all pretty simple. The RCA cables were the original ones and had issues, so I replaced those with heavier new ones. After doing those things, it sounded superb, so I let it be.

There is obviously much more you can do to tweak it. Just don't let tweaking it become more important than listening to it. It sounds pretty amazing already. And if it hasn't been made clear, the most important tweak is a rock solid platform. It unleashes the Thorens magic.
 
Last edited:
Congrats on the table. I learned a lot about turntables from modding my 165 from stock. Like everyone has said, you got a great deck that even stock sounds great when setup appropriately.

First thing I would do, change out the bottom board with a 1/2" to 3/4" thick board of birch plywood or MDF. After that you can go through numerous different routes. Cork or another vibration deadener on the bottom of the top chassis and sub chassis, better interconnects, platter mat. So much you can do.
 
bangsezmax said:
Prefix -- FYI on the 160 (as I'm the one who tuned it for the shop): the table needed very little in the way of adjustments. I removed the foam in the springs and did minimal adjustment work on the bounce. Checked the tonearm bearings, checked the belt and speed, lubed the platter bearing, checked the alignment and set VTF. Since the cart wasn't changed (just a new stylus), that made it all pretty simple. The RCA cables were the original ones and had issues, so I replaced those with heavier new ones. After doing those things, it sounded superb, so I let it be.

There is obviously much more you can do to tweak it. Just don't let tweaking it become more important than listening to it. It sounds pretty amazing already. And if it hasn't been made clear, the most important tweak is a rock solid platform. It unleashes the Thorens magic.
Click to expand...

Thanks bangs, I didn't want to attach your name to this without your permission or doing so yourself. I am very excited to pick it up.

As far as tweaks go, I plan on rocking out for quite some time before messing with it. I can't wait to get to know its sounds and reactions. From that point whenever it is I may start to play with things.

When you say "solid platform" what exactly do you mean?

Thanks
 
Sanc said:
Congrats on the table. I learned a lot about turntables from modding my 165 from stock. Like everyone has said, you got a great deck that even stock sounds great when setup appropriately.

First thing I would do, change out the bottom board with a 1/2" to 3/4" thick board of birch plywood or MDF. After that you can go through numerous different routes. Cork or another vibration deadener on the bottom of the top chassis and sub chassis, better interconnects, platter mat. So much you can do.
Click to expand...

Thanks Sanc, the 3/4" MDF bottom board sounds like a good upgrade. Not really doing anything other than making the table and plinth a more hefty solid single unit.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Theanalogdept discussion about suspension tuning discusses a solid platform. Something what WILL NOT MOVE under any circumstances.

http://www.theanalogdept.com/susp_tim_bailey.htm
Click to expand...

I have wood floors, no carpets but wood nonetheless...so I should be looking into a wall mount. I will do some digging around for ideas tonight.

For some reason I find some of the articles in the analog dept. fairly tough to follow. It takes several reads before I can follow the line of thought.
 
Well post your questions and we can translate for you.

You want a very solid platform. The suspension of the table is damped by the foam in the springs but the table sounds better without that foam. But since the foam helps the table deal with folks bouncing around on suspended wooden floors it is good to mount the table where it will not be affected by such movements.

So a wall mount is a good choice since not many folks walk or dance on the walls. The article also talks about buying or making a shelf and says that leaving the bottom open to tune the suspension through holes drilled in your new 3/4" plywood bottom cover makes it easier than not having the open shelf. I feel better with the table on a solid shelf. Don't forget to decide if you want a second shelf below the first to hold your accessories.
 
Not sure the exact role of the foam inserts in a Thorens is, but in AR's it to control the amount of jounce time. In stock form it has zero effect on the sound. Wall mount eliminates the second spring rate (floor spring) from the equation.
 
Thanks to everyone for their help in my journey!:banana: It was a long time coming and I was finally able to close the deal. I closed on a TD-160c and I cannot be happier. I have had it for about two weeks and love it. The manual action of it, the suspension, the lovely sound, and even its quirks...

Its not perfect but it is in great condition which I can say that I am very thankful for. The mods I am planning are time consuming enough! but that's half the fun, spending time on this rather than other things...like work.


Anyways,
A few things I plan to do after reading through AK for days over my holiday.

:boring:
Using Joel's from Vinylengine items...
1) Polish the bearing and lube it up.
2) Try out his belt and clean belt drive system
3) Use his MDF disc in my sub platter (actually ordered from fredhifi)
4) Motor Oil
5) Use his thrustplate....maybe, still want to read more about it

Herbies Audio Lab....
1) Way Excellent II-3mm mat
2) Big Tall Tenderfoot

Various mods I have read about on AK...
1) 3/4 Baltic Birch bottom
2) Cork and dynamat appropriate areas

Finally but most importantly, as I have found out, I need to make a platform for this guy because the suspension is a loose cannon on my floors.
The platform that I am going with is a hanging shelf from my ceiling because wall shelfs are out of the question.

I did not list these in any order and are subject to change but I would love any opinions (thumbs up / thumbs down) on any of these ideas.

All of this will certainly take lots of time but will hopefully unfold over the coming weeks. I will be keeping this updated so that I can try and give back what I have taken and also because there is a since of urgency when you promise to document something.
 
Well I just wanted to update. It's been almost exactly 2 months since I picked up my 160c. It was in great condition but I planned from the beginning to play around with it. Here are a few of the things I have done. This includes installing a two shelf target wall shelf. I love everything and am having a blast. Thanks for everyone's help. I read through this thread from the beginning and it was very fun to chronicle my journey up to this point.
------------------------


I received Joel's package and followed the instructions using everything.

1) Polished the bearing shaft
2) Polished the bearing housing
3) Replaced the oil
4) Oiled the motor bearing top and bottom
5) Poilshed the sub-platter (really needed it, the belt had left residue over time on the platter)
6) Cleaned the motor pulley (belt had also made this very dirty)
7) Oiled the tonearm top and bottom bearing
8) Replaced belt with Joel's. (Significant noise reduction)

I used all the materials in the package to do 1-7. My sub platter spin time went from 28 sec to 1min 17 sec. I figure the bearing housing could use a little more polishing but I am very happy with it now.

8) Dexoit the pins and connectors of my tonearm
9) Polished out-platter
10) Polished the dustcover
11) 4 Tender feet
12) Herbie's Way Excellent II mat


Last week I cut some 3/4" Baltic Birch for my bottom board.

20130210_142451_zpsbbe28208.jpg


20130210_163931_zpsece64222.jpg
[/IMG]

I just used some spray paint and painted it. It looks good... really the sides are all that matter.

20130215_143111_zpsfe25bbb1.jpg


Here it is attached.

20130215_143525_zps7f8a258e.jpg


I also bought some #12 O-rings (8 of them) and placed them on my bearing shaft. They fit perfectly but I could use a few more.

20130215_143043_zpsd1f2b450.jpg


Lastly, here it is setup with my little artDJ below. I have to use the artDJ because my system is on the other side of the room and am pushing the signal about 16ft. Now with the shelf, I can put the receiver below and just run the speaker wire to the other side. The artDJ works find but I would like to be able to cut it out if I don't have to have it. My house is small with limited wall space so I have been forced to place the shelf in a corner. I am very happy with it and can jump all over on my wooden floors without the suspension going crazy.

20130216_182123_zpsceeee813.jpg


I am not very great at telling much other than I am confident that my 160 is a more solid happier turntable than before. I plan on damping soon but am going to wait and listen to it for a while and get a feel for its sound as is. Now that I have a very solid setup my next major moves will be in the vinyl cleaning department. All of my records have dust in the grooves and so I am missing much of the quality. I am looking forward to getting them cleaned up.
 
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