Accuphase T-101 and T-100: sound/build quality

davstev

davstev

Well-Known Member
I am going to purchase one of the two tuners mentioned in the title.

The 100 is a bit more expensive and has a single big scrape on it.

The 101 is overall very good shape and is about 3/4 the price.

I don't care much for AM radio, so the 100 is not appealing in that regard.

Reviews seem to vary as to which is better sounding; possibly only a matter of personal taste (?).

But one reviewer said that the 100 has a "build quality that is head and shoulders above the 101".

Anyone care to comment? Is the build quality comment justified?
 
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I had both at the same time in the late 80s. At that time, I thought the 101 was kinda bright sounding and the 100 was richer and more pleasurable.

101 is quite nicely made but the 100 is a bit nicer perhaps. This is working from photos of the interiors. Don't recall inspecting the insides 30 years later. The external "feel" is excellent in both cases.
 
An excellent reply, thanks Mr. Roberts. Good memory for detail, too.

I've decided to go with the T-101. I hope it'll be ok!
 
I was heavily into tuners then and more picky than I am now. I worked in a high end store and traded a lot of gear.

I remember that shootout well. Don't ask me what happened last week though!

At the time I was mainly into tube tuners, so that tells you where my head was (and still is) sound evaluation wise.

T-101 is a fine selection. It is a beautiful device and a high performance machine. I'm sure may would prefer it's crisp clean sound to the alternative.

I almost bid on one last week, in fact, until I came to my senses. I have like 20-30 tuners. Then I bought two tube Mac tuners from an AKer! So much for sense!
 
I am sure that I'll like the T-101. Being able to buy only one tuner means that I cannot compare the 100 and 101, and will never know the difference.

I suspect that they probably sound very similar . We are audiophiles, after all. Our mission is to find the smallest perceived improvement in sound or sonic character and make it important. (which it is of course...)

This experienced reviewer said he preferred the 101 to the 100:

http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/tuners/tuner-project-conclusion.html
 
The build quality of the T-100 is higher than the T-101. However, I believe the power supply is better in the T-101 and once your replace all the tantalum capacitors in the signal path the T-101 can sound better than the T-100. At least that is my personal opinion. If shipping is involved, make sure it well padded. I've had quite a few come with broken outer glass from shock of shipping. Padding, like several inches of bubble wrap. More the better.
 
That is really good to know about the tantalum caps.

I will look into this and do it.

I've recapped a few amps. Never done a tuner before, but surely it's a similar process.

Are we talking a lot of caps here?

Also, what is better about the power supply?

David
 
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If the The LC non ceramic based IF filters are one of the reasons that the T-100 is better sounding than the T-101, can those found in the 101 be fairly easily upgraded? Do this along with replacing the tantalum caps?
 
Not possible to switch. LC filers probably do account for much of the difference between the two tuners but they represent an entirely different approach. Much more expensive and labor intensive to set up, which is why they vanished as decent ceramic filters became available.

Changing out tantalum caps is easy and cheap to do however, and surely worth the trouble.
 
Good to know. Looked at the service manual and it seemed there weren't that many tantalums so it sounds very manageable.

Someone also suggested replacing the power supply filter caps with blackgate caps.
 
Black Gates are out of production and $$$. Panasonic FCs and Chemi Con general purpose caps such are good sounding and reasonably priced and I wouldn't hesitate to use them for the PSU. I have used Black Gates in tube and transistor gear and I just don't get the hype. Not what I am looking for anyway.

There looks to be only one axial filter cap on the power board. I'd use an axial blue Phillips LL or a Sikorel from ebay.

A lot of audiophile-approved caps veer toward the bright and mechanical effect in vintage gear. I use them because they are easy to get and of course I am looking for a good quality part, but sometimes I feel the unit comes out a bit dry and characterless. Maybe they are "too good" for the surrounding circuitry?

But you might as well learns something in the process. Listen to the T-101 for a week before modding anything. Meet the tuner and become its friend.

Then pop in some decent audio caps such as Silmics in place of the tantalums. Listen for a while. Learn what you just did, sound-wise. Make an education out of it.

Here you simply changed one tiny thing so it is a fairly controlled experiment, educational!

I'll bet it is mighty good after the tantalum replacement. These caps can either sound bright and edgy or muffled and edgy and I never missed them when gone.

Then recap the PSU, when and if if you feel like it. Check out the changes.

Or do it in the opposite order. PSU, then tantalums. There are only a few parts involved in both operations.

If you blitzkrieg the tuner all at one time with new parts, you'll never know what that famous classic tuner was and was supposed to be. You will have a weird hybrid creation.

While there is probably indeed room for incremental improvement, its a damn Accuphase. Pretty ambitious effort.. A working T-101 should be a fine tuner.

Looking here, the stock parts appear to be quite high grade by tuner standards: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/reonr2000/2188864.html -- so a measured approach is probably the reasonable way to proceed.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!

I don't necessarily practice this gradualism that I preach but I do try to listen to the changes and do once or two things at a time when "modifying" tuners. I just did this with a Citation III last week and I really couldn't believe how dead and muffled sounding those Good All mylar caps were. I thought they were probably half-decent parts. Every one or two I replaced made a large positive difference. That was interesting to hear unfold. This tuner went from a "fair/boring/muddy" dust collector on my tuner shelf to "serious potential" after the first 8 caps and contact cleaning. FUN!
 
Joe, once again thanks for the suggestions. I think it's good advice.

I presume that the removal and replacement of the tantalums will make the biggest difference, say, over the PSU. I might try the Silmic's. I once chose Silmic ii's for the recap of a Marantz 2270 integrated and I was never sure I liked it. I chose them because I heard them described as "tubey" sounding. I was pretty underwhelmed after the recap though, I felt like it just didn't sparkle. Despite this, I might try them again anyway, since it's a tuner and not a whole integrated amp, and....well, just because I feel like it. I think that being underwhelmed by the Silmic ii's was something other than the caps. Call it internal synergy with other elements maybe. Or the circuit, or something.

What's your fave tuner? How does a T-101 or T-100 compare? Seems you are pretty experienced.

Thanks.
 
I had Punker X do a alignment and recap on a T100 tuner boards. It took 100 or more hours to settle in and I also messed around with the audio boards and power supply more then I would like to admit before Punker X did his thing. I have to say I think I'm done and I'm going to make some fine wine in time. Punker X knows what he is doing! I put some high dollar to me capacitors (Auricap XO Series - Metalized Polypropylene) in the audio board that I know work and seem to be using them every were and have never been disappointed.
 
davstev said:
ard them described as "tubey" sounding. I was pretty underwhelmed after the recap though, I felt like it just didn't sparkle.
Click to expand...

I don't know why people call that "tubey". Actually, there is no such thing as "tubey." Some tube gear sounds like mud but so does plenty of transistor stuff.

There are not that many potentially dubious caps in a T-101, going by the pics. Using a particular cap "just because you feel like it" is a decent philosophy. Absent experience, and even with it, changing a particular cap is always a bit of a gamble. There are general tendencies for cap types to sound a certain way, but testing in situ is the only real way to know. You can't take all those cap roller reports literally as gospel truth applicable to all tasters and situations.

I use a lot of Silmics and I really don't hear them as rolled off and closed in, but that is just my ear and what I like. I call em smooth and I think that would work toward balance in the T-101 as I remember it, having a rather squeaky clean sound. Spend 5 bucks and find out!
 
Received the T-101 yesterday. Just gave it a quick listen. First impressions are that it is very nice. Sounds great, but I would not say amazing. Similar to other nice tuners I have had. At least that is my brief impression. I will change out the tantalums, with Silmics and see how it goes. Overall it seems very nice. I would have to say that the tuning and signal meters at the lower left seem a little cheap; the plastic windows move around a bit inside the black plastic frame. With Accuphase I would have expected glass not plastic and no movement or play. I think the T-100 has the very same meters.

I think I should invest in a good FM antenna. Any suggestions for a good budget FM antenna?

I also need to replace the tuning dial meter, it's burnt out. I hope that is not too tricky as I will attempt it myself.

Yeah, 'tubey' whatever that means. Sounded good at the time to a novice, but the fact is, tubes are as varied as caps, right?

Thanks for the input, guys!
 
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I can't think of many glass meters in hifi gear....glass dial covers yes, meters no. Even Mac uses plastic meters, behind glass. The meters might not move if you snug up the clamps.

"Amazing" sound in tuners is probably quite rare. Depends on what you mean by "amazing"...and it might depend heavily on how amazing your local stations are.

I judge tuner SQ on how I feel during long hours of listening. The good ones don't jump out at me as sounding like a radio, i.e. sound natural, and when I choose to shift my focus from the computer or whatever else I'm doing while listening to FM, I am rewarded with an involving listening experience.

A wire dipole or TV rabbit ears is a "good" antenna, unless your situation requires more gain/directivity.
 
Look into at least a 5 element yagi type FM antenna and try to get it up at least 20 feet off the surrounding structures, trees etc. To a point height will help with reception of the broadcast signals. Your selectivity depends on several factors. I would suggest looking into INNOV or similar quality antenna companies for their products. They build an excellent antenna, it costs but well worth the price as it is a quality antenna. Their communications antennas are second to none and after being an Amateur Radio orperator for over 30 years and having used most every type, brand including home brewed these are seriously some of the very best available.

I had both tuners in the 1980-2003 and each worked very well. A slight edge to the T-100 but the T-101 coupled to a nice 9 element yagi performed to my needs. The particular tuner I owned were simply fantastic and beat out anything the Macs could offer. In comparison the Accuphase would lock onto signals where the Macs would not. In side by side comparisons the Macs sounded good, it was just the Accuphase was just better sounding and in some cases people listening thought I was playing a recording or several times it was thought to be a CD. The Macs do command a following and rightly so, but I would own another T-100 or T101 if an nice example came up and the price was inline with condition and performance. If I had to repair or replace components that would reflect into the purchase price. One example of a fine Mac tuner was in their 1700 receiver and I have been told they used the same tuner in some of the separates.

Best of luck and if I were going to have to repair or replace caps I would invest in the proven parts instead of chancing an outcome. Panasonic caps were usually the choice to replace worn components if repairs were needed. Just a suggestion as I know several owners who went with those in those particular tuners and the sound was similar or improved in each instance.

Hermit
 
Give the tuner a chance some days are better then others. Accuphase is quality all the way. The T100 has Glass Tuner dial cover but I just taped the meters and your right there plastic but they work perfect after all these years. When I got mine I had some listening experiences that were as good as any source out there with all original parts. But many days also sounded bad. Now that I have gone thru mine even going to the extent of replacing all capacitors many signal and power supply wires with Cardas Litz and Military grade Teflon silver coated it sounds really good most days at least as good as CD. To be honest I just turned it on and its a bad day (Rare at that but I know its not the tuner).
I have a roof mounted new Yagi Channel Master and it was no easy task to find new.
For the tube sound I added a Yaqin Tube buffer with new internals hooked to the tuner output and run new old stock 6SN7 Tongsols. I think I'm just starting to appreciate that now but hardly worth the cost and not sure it does much.
 
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