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Adding more power to new speakers

As many have said...let your ears be the judge. A critical listener should easily be able to hear when the speakers are being pushed too hard.


While most of my listening is at very moderate levels -streaming radio right now and volume is low enough for easy conversation- I will absolutely crank things to 11 and ROCK the house. Some music just needs to be played loud.
 
I currently use Sonetto II and Olympica Nova III in my systems. In my experience, I've found all Sonus faber speakers to sound somewhat muzzled until you turn the volume up, even with their current lines. And they really come alive with amps that have high current capability, even at lower volume levels. A little experimentation with amps can go a long way. I suggest talking to an experienced Sonus faber dealer who can make amplifier recommendations for your speakers and listening preferences.
 
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gadget73 said:
I know people like to go on about how speakers die from not enough power, but the only times in my life I've killed a speaker its been from too much power.
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A "low-powered" amp can kill speakers by driving it into clipping. But you would think the sound would be so horrible that the listener would shut things down at that point.

Clean power can kill speakers but I think it takes much more than most would believe.
 
Ya, you aren't going to get much more volume between those two amps.
A little more headroom though. But as already stated that's another whole rabbit hole. At the moment I'm listening to a 17.5wpc tube amp with speakers rated at 93db-1W-1meter. It's plenty loud.
 
RVT1K said:
A "low-powered" amp can kill speakers by driving it into clipping. But you would think the sound would be so horrible that the listener would shut things down at that point.

Clean power can kill speakers but I think it takes much more than most would believe.
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It takes the same amount either way...clipped or un-clipped.

Clipping per se does not damage speakers. But heavy clipping can result in a greater portion of the power going to the mids and tweeters than would normally be the case. If it's more than the driver is designed to handle, damage ensues. Not from the clipped signal, but from the excess power.

Clipping can also cause some amps to go into oscillation, which can damage both the amp and the speakers.
 
Lavane said:
Ya, you aren't going to get much more volume between those two amps.
A little more headroom though. But as already stated that's another whole rabbit hole. At the moment I'm listening to a 17.5wpc tube amp with speakers rated at 93db-1W-1meter. It's plenty loud.
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Headroom does not seem like much of a rabbit hole to me. I would think just about everyone would agree that keeping clipping to a minimum is ideal. The only debate is as regards proper headroom allowance. Some would say 9dB is adequate, others will argue that 18dB is not enough. A lot of it depends upon quality of the recording, as well as tolerance for some amount of clipping.

I know that some feel that headroom is less important in the case of tube amps because they clip the signal more euphonically (vs solid state amps), but in my view clipping distortion should be kept to a minimum in either case.
 
spark1 said:
Headroom does not seem like much of a rabbit hole to me. I would think just about everyone would agree that keeping clipping to a minimum is ideal. The only debate is as regards proper headroom allowance. Some would say 9dB is adequate, others will argue that 18dB is not enough. A lot of it depends upon quality of the recording, as well as tolerance for some amount of clipping.

I know that some feel that headroom is less important in the case of tube amps because they clip the signal more euphonically (vs solid state amps), but in my view clipping distortion should be kept to a minimum in either case.
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I have tube amps from 3.5wpc up to 125 watt mono blocks. Speaker sensitivity is important also. I have six tube amps so far I've built and kept, but the 17wpc Dynaco ST-35 has been my favorite. It has some really nice sounding output transformers. Soft clipping is a lot more forgiving than SS clipping for sure.
Another amp I built is only 5wpc with a whopping 5% distortion at full output and a frequency responce of 40hz to 18khz. Even with up to 5% distortion it really isn't noticable. I liked the amp.l so well I built a matching passive preamp with a SS CNC phono stage and input selector and also built an active subsonic filter to with it.
 

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spark1 said:
Headroom does not seem like much of a rabbit hole to me.
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Headroom by itself isn’t, it’s how much and how you get it can cause ‘discussion.’

As I noted, my 25 watt class A amps are sweet to my ears and plenty loud, but I don’t have 15 dB of headroom. So maybe the tippy tops of the transients suffer, but the trade offs are worth it…to my ears.
 
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I can enjoy peaks of 102 db easily but the average level might be 10 to 20 db less depending on the CD or LP company that I am listening too. THen is 80 db A weighted slow response or some thing else. I Always measure flat response with peak weighting . Which might be 20 db higher than your 80 db measurement in the extreme. All A weighting, with slow response corresponds to is the ears potential for damage. What your amp and speakers are subjected to is the Z flat weighting with peak rating levels. Now most speakers sag in out put level as the more power is added. THE DD series JBL's sag about 3 to 3.5 db at maximum peak power rating. Most Klipsch units sag 4 to 5 db at full power rating. When Roger Russel was designing Mcintosh Speakers his line arrays didn't sag at all. THats not the case with last two generations of line rays some of which were designed in Italy. All speakers sag in the consumer market, which unfortunate. So always buy more speaker than you will ever need. I always try to have 10 db more output capability with amps and speakers than I will ever use. Each of my stereo speakers has close to 8 db head room than I will ever use. The HT System Stereo speakers have over 10 db head room the center channel about 6 db and the rear and side speakers about 15 db more head room than I will ever use. The rear and side speakers are much closer to my ears and there fore don't need near the power the front speakers do. What does all this mean. THE HT System in the stereo mode I seldom use more than 15 watts X three because I tri- amp. THE stereo system most of the time 30 watts perchannel is enough. but with REference recordings, TElarc and Sheffield albums and discs 30 to 60 watts per channel is all need. IN the HT mode the poor center channel may see 100 watts and the other front speakers may see about the same total with three amps driving the left and right speakers. THE center speakers has 500 watts of power, the right left, 720, the rear and side 240 each. THE stereo system has around 600 watts each. All the amps are Mcintosh and those are about the levels where the power guard turns on. IN the 60 + years I have owned stereo and HT systems I have only had one driver fail. It was a mid range unit and it failed with in the first week using barely over 10 watts. I also lost some supper tweeters but that was because one of the Crown D-150 a amps I had for while went berserk. THE DC 300 a amps needed a total rebuild every 8 years or so. After the second time I went back to Mac amps. Never had that issue with any of my MAC amps. Driving 2 ohms can be a challenge for most amps direct coupled. Doesn't seem to effect my Mac amps!
 
Thanks, @twiiii, for showing the way to the rabbit hole (and I mean that in a very kind way). There is a lot to consider beyond how much over your normal listening level you think is best. Regardless of the technical details, it’s your system and your ears. You do you.
 
Bob Carver wrote a whole article explaining why you needed 20db of headroom in an amplifier. I'm sure this was completely unrelated to the fact he was selling a 350 watt per channel amplifier at the time, which coincidentally could provide 20db of headroom above a 3.5 watt listening level.

I can't find it right now but I'm sure someone knows the article i'm talking about. I've read it somewhere on the internet.
 
gadget73 said:
Bob Carver wrote a whole article explaining why you needed 20db of headroom in an amplifier. I'm sure this was completely unrelated to the fact he was selling a 350 watt per channel amplifier at the time, which coincidentally could provide 20db of headroom above a 3.5 watt listening level.

I can't find it right now but I'm sure someone knows the article i'm talking about. I've read it somewhere on the internet.
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Pioneer did the same thing back in the day explaining why you needed 250W concerning the SPEC-2 calling it the arc welder special lol.
 
Okra said:
I recently bought A pair of Sonus Faber Sonetto III being driven by an Arcam SA20 integrated amp. The sound is sublime but I'm reticent to test the volume beyond 80dB or so because the SF are rated at 50 watts to 250 watts and my amps limit is 150 watts at 4 ohms. I'm afraid of frying the speakers.

Thoughts on adding a power amp to the Arcam or a consideration is buying a Peachtree amp with more power. I'd appreciate any advice.

Peachtree Carina GaN
Direct Digital GaN Integrated Amplifier
200 watts per channel state-of-the-art GaN power

Arcam SA20
150 watts x 2 into 4 ohms
+
Arcam PA240 Power Amp
380 watts x 2 into 4 ohms​
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Ever thought about a nice, powered subwoofer? Those really help fill-in, for a much more complete sound.

:idea:
 
Semanon said:
Thanks, @twiiii, for showing the way to the rabbit hole (and I mean that in a very kind way). There is a lot to consider beyond how much over your normal listening level you think is best. Regardless of the technical details, it’s your system and your ears. You do you.
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Just about any subject can be made more complex than is necessary for practical understanding. But as you say, "you do you".
 
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Coming from a good amp that did 165wpc to an amp that does 400wpc the 400 brought the speakers alive at the same 75 decibels that is my usual listening level.
 
sanford12 said:
Coming from a good amp that did 165wpc to an amp that does 400wpc the 400 brought the speakers alive at the same 75 decibels that is my usual listening level.
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Interesting, since at the same 75dB both amps would be putting out exactly the same power.

If the reason for the improvement was a reduction in clipping distortion, those must be some really low-sensitvity speakers.

Maybe the improvement was related to something other than the higher power rating. For example, better power supply resulting in more linear frequency response?
 
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