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ADS vs Braun Speakers

weez

New Member
Hi all,

I have a few pieces of Braun audio equipment and I'm interested in a set of speakers, either from ADS (given the connection) or Braun.

I've seen both Braun and ADS speakers being labeled the same thing - L710, for example. There's a Braun L710 and and ADS L710.

Should I expect those to be pretty much the same speaker? I hear rave reviews of the ADS L710, but I might have an opportunity to purchase a set of metal grille, rubber-surround woofer Braun L710s. My understanding is that (at least initially) ADS imported Braun speakers, and then just used the drivers from Brauns to build their own speakers. Being that these Brauns have the metal gilles and rubber surrounds, it seems like they are later speakers.

Anyone have experience with both Braun and ADS speakers and how they might compare?

Thanks!
 
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Same speakers. A/d/s sell for more due to the net and how many look at reviews to buy speakers these days. Braun’s are every bit as good if not better than A/D/S given there lower prices.
 
I've seen both Braun and ADS speakers being labeled the same thing - L710, for example. There's a Braun L710 and and ADS L710...Should I expect those to be pretty much the same speaker?

My understanding is that (at least initially) ADS imported Braun speakers, and then just used the drivers from Brauns to build their own speakers.


I believe you are correct here are 2 pair of CM5's identical builds.



IMG_20131202_082950_283.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-09-13 at 9.53.16 PM.png
 
Same speakers. A/d/s sell for more due to the net and how many look at reviews to buy speakers these days. Braun’s are every bit as good if not better than A/D/S given there lower prices.

Thanks. That's what I had assumed, but wasn't sure! Much appreciated.

Also if anyone knows it's this guy who shares the story of ADS & Braun

https://www.adsspeakersservice.com/about-us

View attachment 2142805

That's interesting, and I hadn't heard of that site before. I suppose that once ADS started importing / producing Braun speakers, Braun continued making them as well. I suppose some of those made it over to the US. Thanks!
 
Braun L710 are 4ohm vs 6 ohm for the ADS version (unless its a very early aDs version which may have also been 4ohm). This isn't likely to be significant as your Braun audio gear was designed to drive 4ohm speakers. There are other differences but the biggest thing is that most ADS versions you'll find will be a tad newer. Richard So can refurbish Braun speakers as well so never fear. Both the ADS and Braun L710 are excellent, well balanced speakers.

I wouldn't pass on the Braun L710s - you can always pick up an ADS version to compare down the road.

Your next task will be finding the elusive LF700 stands to go with.
 
Thanks! good to know about those differences.

Do you know anything about the history or timeline of cloth vs metal grilles? It seems like the Braun speakers perhaps always used metal grilles, but from what I understand the ADS ones started out as cloth and then went to metal.

The other thing that's interesting to me is that the Braun L710s I see have rubber woofers, which again, seemed like something that was added later.

The Brauns are being listed at $695, which feels a little expensive to me. Any insight on the going rate? I know they are much more rare than the ADS versions but comps are a bit hard to come by.
 
That is pricey unless proper LF700 stands are included (asking about value is best placed in the dollars and sense section). There is also an ADS Facebook group that you could ask. Be careful about it though - someone will buy them out from under you.

Braun always used rubber surrounds in the 710s as far as I know. Early aDs used foam before switching to rubber later.

Most Brauns have metal grills but cloth grills were also offered (rare). ADS started with cloth and transitioned to metal.
 
Some early Braun models did not have binding posts but the speaker wire was internal and they had something like 8 or 19 ft lengths coming out of the speaker. I had a pair of ADS L700's and sold them. They were replaced with AR 3a's but they came pretty damn close. They were almost as heavy as the 3a's which is a lot.
 
Thanks all!

That is pricey unless proper LF700 stands are included (asking about value is best placed in the dollars and sense section). There is also an ADS Facebook group that you could ask. Be careful about it though - someone will buy them out from under you.

Braun always used rubber surrounds in the 710s as far as I know. Early aDs used foam before switching to rubber later.

Most Brauns have metal grills but cloth grills were also offered (rare). ADS started with cloth and transitioned to metal.

Doesn't come with stands unfortunately. I will ask in the proper section! I am a part of the ADS group on Facebook, and definitely not going to post there :) I appreciate the extra info!

Some early Braun models did not have binding posts but the speaker wire was internal and they had something like 8 or 19 ft lengths coming out of the speaker. I had a pair of ADS L700's and sold them. They were replaced with AR 3a's but they came pretty damn close. They were almost as heavy as the 3a's which is a lot.

These have the internal speaker wire.

Most people here agree; the mighty Brauns are so much betterer than ads. :rockon:

LOL, nice!
 
The speakers of the Braun were at least for a time built at Heco. I just restore a pair of Heco P4302 SL and the woofer and especially the mighty 5 cm soft dome calotte squawker look absolutely identical to those of my Braun L-710/1 I stupidly sold years ago complete with LF700. The sqawker of the Heco even has the Braun-typical sticky goo on it. This stuff obviously made a difference in sound (in the beginning Heco delivered the calotte [dome type] speakers dry and Braun applied the stuff).
 
I didn't know the connection with Heco, that is interesting!

Still debating on these L710s. They're more than I want to pay, and as silly as this may seem, they have the wood veneer, which is not really in line with Braun's design aesthetic at the time. The wood veneer is certainly nice though.
 
Thanks! good to know about those differences.

Do you know anything about the history or timeline of cloth vs metal grilles? It seems like the Braun speakers perhaps always used metal grilles, but from what I understand the ADS ones started out as cloth and then went to metal.

The other thing that's interesting to me is that the Braun L710s I see have rubber woofers, which again, seemed like something that was added later.

The Brauns are being listed at $695, which feels a little expensive to me. Any insight on the going rate? I know they are much more rare than the ADS versions but comps are a bit hard to come by.

Wow, i nearly (figuratively) fell off my chair when i read the prices they ask in the US for a pair of Braun L710. In Germany they for 140€ on average (less than 200$). Might actually be more cheap to buy from Germany.

Wood veneer is not in line with the Braun design language but they still ofefed it - i actually own 2 sets of brown "wooden" speakers: L710, with the veneer in rough shape (bought recently for ~100$, and l710 cabinets with l620 components inside (originally belonged to a braun engineer - probably self made) - which might actually be solid wood (you can see the wooden texture on the inside of the cabinets).

They are nice speakers no doubt, but for that price, i would not take them into consideration - lot of other options out there. The samd in Eurooe with US made speakers like ar and advents - can be found but considerably more exoensive than local products of similar quality.
 
Can I chime in here, about a year ago I was telling anyone who would listen about a pair of Braun L710 A speakers I was interested in purchasing. I was sitting on the fence for a day or two, of dammed if I do, idiot if I don’t self reflection and decided to pull the trigger. .Now as I’m looking over these I notice a couple of inconsistencies. On the back of the cabinets on the bottom right side there’s a silver rectangular sticker that’s says Braun L710 A, 4 ohms serial # 1342, seems normal enough right, but at the very bottom of the sticker there’s a logo that says ARA then right next to the logo it says analog & digital systems which I’m thinking would be a/d/s, it also says made in the USA So one of my questions is are these Made by ARA with Braun components, or are they made by a/d/s with Braun drivers? Also if it matters they have cloth grills the old aDs logo on the bottom left corner. Now the cabinets are vernier over partial board ( supper heavy) and the post are just strange looking. If someone knows anything about the origin of these speakers please let me know. I posted some photos please have a look. 2E11AE18-2322-4B43-B399-DADE1ED2D668.jpeg18EBC3C3-8262-4695-841C-F40B3F084E3F.jpeg4A859756-049B-4BB6-9571-B4B54062E179.jpeg614DAF46-21CC-4DA7-BD2C-CB0C8D7B28C1.jpeg
 
Those L710-A (not sure if the -A stood for aDs or Aria) are first generation aDs made with imported brAun drivers probably manufactured in 1974. The cabinets were made in the US. Aria was the name of the corporation that imported Braun gear.

Edit: @ArtMann Those 710A are sweet speakers and I would guess they are more desirable than the aDs versions made a year later with the first aDs made drivers. Braun woofers utilized butyl rubber surrounds (early aDs first used foam before switching to rubber) and the Braun mid range has a larger magnet. The cabinets look well made to me. The cloth grills common to early aDs speakers have protected the sticky domes all these years. They used Braun crossovers I assume and you might want to consider replacing the woofer lytic capacitors at some point (guessing you have to access by removing a woofer). Those are keepers.

See post #4 by @Dswankey in this thread for a little history of the company and its founder.

Additional details below via a couple of fun quotes stolen from the interwebs:

Soundmotor posting on ecoustics forum:

aDs was formed by Dr. Godehard Guenther in the early 1970s and after he started the Braun-Aria company. Braun-Aria and was an importer of Braun loudspeakers. This led to building cabinets in the USA with Braun drivers. This was the first iteration of aDs (mirroring the brAun logo at the time.) Eventually, a factory was opened in MA and the drivers were built there. This takes the company up to ~1981. In 1981, ADS (new logo) was approached by Gillette which had bought Braun. Gillette sold the Braun hi-fi division to ADS. By 1981 ADS was quite successful and Dr. Guenther’s earlier relationship with Braun opened the door. Although there was collaboration between the 2 companies, each had unique speaker lines which were not shared. Braun continued producing its own drivers as did ADS. Electronics however were, the Atelier line specifically.In 1990, a/d/s/ (logo change in 1988 or thereabouts) sold Braun back to Gillette. In 1992, a/d/s/ was purchase by the Museatex group out of Canada. In the late 90s, the last office for a/d/s/ closed in MA and the company relocated to AZ.

____________________________

Leif posting on rec.audio.groups:

Kind of a cool story here. The founder, Godehard Gunther, was a NASA guy and subordinate of Werner Von Braun. If there was a relationship between Von Braun and Braun hifi, I am not aware of it but who knows? ADS was however dependent on Braun hifi only for material to resell. They were not owned by them or even German. ADS was a US company from the beginning. The founder however was indeed German.

GG began importing Braun in the late 1960's into the US under the Braun Aria name. Some of the first items were the LV1020 active/triamplified studio monitor (All active in 1970!) and the TG1000 reel to reel deck. He also brought in many of the passive loudspeakers. Importing wooden boxes was prohibitively expensive though.

GG left NASA and opened ADS Aria in Huntsville, AL ~1972 and then moved to MA the next year. In ~1974, manufacturing began with US sourced cabinets using Braun drivers and crossovers. Starting in 1975, the first manufacture of US made copies of the Braun drivers began. In 1981, Gillette approached GG and sold the hifi division of Braun to ADS. This relationship lasted until 1990 when the hifi division was sold back to Gillette. It was never profitable but the marriage brought some interesting products into the US.

The usage of notable industrial designers should also be mentioned. Braun used Dieter Rams for their hifi products until the early 1980's and then Peter Hartwein picked up the ball. ADS used Hartmut Esslinger of FROG Design in Berkeley, CA. Esslinger did the first Macintosh. Rams & Hartwein did so many classic Braun consumer products that you would have to be the Unabomber not to recognize them.

Another side note are where some of the people at a/d/s/ went. Michael Kelly (Pres., Aerial Acoustics), Chris Browder (Pres. B&W USA) are alum's as well as a list of others too lengthy to go into here.

The 710's were quite interesting. The tweeter/midrange layout was such so that when the product was placed on a bookshelf on their side, the HF alignment was vertical. They actually image quite nice when used that way. The foam surrounds were because the woofer frame used for the 7" in the 710 was an odd size in the speaker industry. Only one supplier produced the cone and surround. It was not until that supplier switched to butyl rubber that a change could be made. The foam surrounds were used on the series one (cloth grille) and some early series 2 (metal grilles).
 
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Hi all,

I have a few pieces of Braun audio equipment and I'm interested in a set of speakers, either from ADS (given the connection) or Braun.

I've seen both Braun and ADS speakers being labeled the same thing - L710, for example. There's a Braun L710 and and ADS L710.

Should I expect those to be pretty much the same speaker? I hear rave reviews of the ADS L710, but I might have an opportunity to purchase a set of metal grille, rubber-surround woofer Braun L710s. My understanding is that (at least initially) ADS imported Braun speakers, and then just used the drivers from Brauns to build their own speakers. Being that these Brauns have the metal gilles and rubber surrounds, it seems like they are later speakers.

Anyone have experience with both Braun and ADS speakers and how they might compare?

Thanks!
I sold both Braun and later ADS speakers in the mid 70's. Although the speaker components in the ADS speakers were sourced directly from Braun, I believe (do not 100% for sure know) the actual speaker drivers were different when the transition was made. Braun speakers were distinctly less "bright" in the high end... for sure! While it may have been cabinets or crossovers, my guess it was a newer version of tweeter driver. My friend and coworker, George O'Connell - who founded a small but noteworthy speaker company called Chicago Acoustic and loved Braun speakers - was disappointed by the "sizzle" in the ADS speakers...
 
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