Advice, tips or tricks for fixing speaker corners and veneer replacement - early 60s cabinets

[Sam08861]

Hi All,

I've recently started to tackle the cosmetics of some gear that I've electronically restored. Built a cabinet and plinth for my Fisher 500B and Dual 1229Q recently and now the Wharfedale W70s are the odd man out visually.

I've redone the PIOs some time back and all the drivers work great. I've sanded 80, 150, 220 just to see what I was working with and also sanded off the loose MDF down to hard stable wood, then put very light CA to soak in and prevent any further flaking. The cabinets are structurally very sound and just the tops have cosmetic issues and rounded off corners from my handiwork, lol. Put some watco natural danish oil on the units to see how that looks and I'm very happy with how that turned out on the remainder of the cabinets. The insides are perfect and the bottoms solid with what looks like pretty thick 1/8" veneer. There was a 2mm gap between 2 panels, but the panels solid, so I filled them with with thin CA and then wood putty squeezed in with an ear syringe and sanded flush to the bottom. The boxes are now pretty sturdy, but the tops need a makeover.

Here's an inventory of the areas needing fixed.

1st one, had lifting, warped veneer that looked to be from water damage. The guy I brought these from had stored stuff on top and looks like something leaked onto both of these.

Anyway, the area filled with clear epoxy and flush with the front strip and you cannot feel the damage. Thinking I should used a multi tool to get a straight line diagonally , or would a chisel or dremel disc work better? Would cutting a square work better.

Also, since it's now flush, would a sander or the multi tool be better to drop it down 1/16" to allow the replacement veneer to be flush?


By the way, I have a 'supply' of 'reclaimed' walnut veneer from the 1229Qs disintegrated plinth that should be enough to fix things up and the grain appears to be going the 'right' way. That's a 12" record cover below to give an idea of scale. The widest strip is about 14 x 4" x 1/32" to 1/16" thick and these have not been sanded or stained yet. There's a thin flat layer of MDF that is bonded to the backs, that didn't come off with sanding and is very flat so that should help with adhesion. (I think?)



Here's a the second area, also a similar situation, but on both sides of the cabinet, but much smaller areas to fix.



Finally, I have 2 corners where I had to sand of a fair bit to get to non crumbly wood. Should I chop it off flush and screw/glue a new corner, then veneer? If so, best way to cut it?




These cabinets kinda pass the 10 foot test, but I'd like to get them in better shape so any and all advice to fix these appreciated. They look funny in the below because my wide angle lens widens everything on the edges of the photo, not to mention the harsh on camera flash that makes everything clinically ugly. Gawd I hate flash photos that aren't diffused. Also the left speaker is sitting crooked on my DIY idea stands that can reliably hold 110lbs. (2 Ivar Shelf 17" x 12" $4 each, 2 Capita Leg 6.25" 4pk $14 each $28.. just screw the legs onto the shelf, which is solid wood and go!) You can also see the veneer donor turntable, whose original plinth was severely moisture damaged. Build a stacked MDF and covered with home depot red oak veneer that happened to be quartersawn, as opposed to the flat grain sheet I got for the receiver below.



I'd also like to not have to buy full sheets of walnut just to do the tops and be able to use what I have available. I'm new to woodworking so any suggestions on what tools to use, how and where to cut, tips, tricks, encouragement, teaching, lectures, scolding, etc. appreciated!

Sam

 

[macyjrm]

Hopefully someone will come along shortly to assist us as I have many of the same questions you have asked.

 

[Sam08861]

Thanks macyjrm,

I hope so too, but if no one replies between now and when I find some time I'm gong to go ahead and try some theories. Sometimes just getting going without over thinking gets the ball rolling.

For the corners, thinking that I'm going to cut a diagonal line and go about 3/4" deep and then screw and glue in a new triangular piece of MDF, which will then be filled and smoothed in with wood filler, sanded flush below the veneer line, then covered in pieces of glued on veneer to match the grain and line as best as I can, sanded and then finally, watco natural danish oil applied with as many coats as necessary to best match the colors. Any areas below the 3/4" depth from the top I'm thinking wood filler or more pieces of smaller MDF triangles or even squared dowels, depending on size. I'm thinking anything bigger than a pea I want to add wood for structural integrity in the long run, rather than wood filler which might chip off or be broken loose under the veneer. Overall plan is to screw/glue the large pieces and glue in small pieces of underlying wood to get a square basis then straight line cuts to the veneer to graft in for full coverage and blending in.

For the edges, I'm most comfortable with the multi tool, so will clamp down some metal strips to act as a guide for straight lines and then sand to depth with the same multi tool, before applying the grain matched veneer, sanding and applying the danish oil.

Hopefully someone will jump in and stop me if I'm doing something stupid or there's a better way/tips/tricks to fix this. Perhaps no one is replying because it's not worth fixing/too far gone to some, but I'm not the type that gives up on anything and will post my methods and results, good or bad. Hopefully the pictures will clarify what I'm trying to say above and the results are good enough to pass the 2 foot test. I'm not looking for invisible, but neat and tidy looking and not the beat up, eyesore look they have now.

Most likely will start the butchery/surgery tomorrow or Thursday after work.

 

[rogerfederer]

PM mr biggles as he has tackled some problems like that
Lots of pro woodworkers who post on AK so you should get some good advice

 

[Steven Tate]

This may not be applicable, but I recently hired a company that does all kinds of door and door frame repair to repair some termite eaten areas on my front door frame. I didn't know we had the damage until we went to paint and when prepping, the paint fell through into destroyed wood. The damage was old, so there were no live bugs in there. One side of the door frame was very bad and had to be removed and replaced. The other side had just a few "wormhole" type trenches, but was not crumbly. On that side, the worker mixed a two part resin that smelled exactly like the Bondo you would use to repair dents in car fenders. He pressed it into the holes, smoothed it, let it set and then sanded it flat. It was a great fix for the missing wood. I immediately thought of some crumbled MDF corners on receiver wood cases that I have and wondered if Bondo would adhere well enough to sand and shape to get the corners back before veneering. Its possible that drilling a few holes in the MDF once you get down to solid material might give a foothold for the Bondo to adhere. I have no idea if this will work, but I'm going to give it a try at some point.

 

[Sam08861]

Thanks Roger,

I'll do a search and send a note.

Thanks Steven,

I had thought about bondo as well, but like you I'm also quite sure how stable it would be, especially on a corner.

Sam

 

[freQ(*)Oddio]

AK member Marzutra I believe has a thread, he just redid some Rectalinear speakers with wood putty and stain, that had similar issues, they look great from a few feet away looked like a great idea.

 

[Sam08861]

Thanks freQ, searching through these now.

 

[Sam Cogley]

There is also a "stick" type epoxy putty made for woodworking. It's great for rebuilding corners.

 

[Sam08861]

Allright, just found this excellent video on for fixing the pieces not needing repair below the veneer. Think I'll just try and use my chisels to get the right depth and then follow this guys lead. Will run out and get some of that glue/activator if anyone happens to know that that is.

Edit, another great video

 

[imready]

Hopefully, I didn't miss anything by skipping over everything in between the original post. I've refinished many speaker cabinets and furniture, much of it learn as you go with help from the internet and books I picked up at garage sales.. Some of my work is outstanding, according to my wife anyhow, some decisions could have been thought out a bit better. I have some JBL 4430's that had been previously use in a nightclub for big parties and had chipped veneer and rounded corners. I had a single JBL speaker that I used as a donor for veneer but with care and patience with stains or oils, I'm sure new would work just as well. One thing for sure you do is to cut veneer at and angel , never use square patch from what I've read. You want your patch piece longer on the side that goes with the grain. This makes the repairs much less obvious, so much so that I can't even find some of the repairs I did on the 4430's. For the corners, I went down my own path as filling the hole where the veneer is missing and then trying to sand the filled area to the level needed to apply the veneer sounded impossible. So, I cut my veneer triangles and glued them in first, then back filled the hole with P.C. Woody , wood epoxy paste. BE sure to use the slow drying stuff, takes 24 hrs if I remember right, but is worth the wait as I had no shrinkage. I did this on all 4 top rear corners and they came out excellent. I guessing it would turn out just as good in the front if you needed to veneer on three sides with care . I would install 2 pieces and let them dry. Measure the third piece and test for fit, always test the fit, then back fill the and install the third piece. When you are installing veneer patches you can tape them in place with wax paper next to the wood and masking tape. Wood glue doesn't stick to wax paper. Sorry this is a little jumbled as I did this work enough that I hardly think about it anymore.
Your other problem with veneer missing and the under neat material exposed is one I have avoided dealing with as the repair of something like this has few options that I can think of besides new veneer. On occasion , I get some speakers where the previous owner or the manufacture has sanded the veneer very thin. I'm generally a sanding kind of guy when it comes to refinishing and it breaks my heart every time I go through the original veneer. I'm a pretty good patcher but installing new veneer I have little experience at and no success to brag about. The other alternative doesn't sound too good either as it would involve using a router to carefully take down the MDF to install a patch. That could could turn into a real mess and I have attempted it. What I have done is used pencils , stains , paint, wax , what ever I can find , to varying degress of success.
A word of caution when refinishing cabinets or furniture if your a sanding person: Don't risk damaging veneer to try and achieve perfection. This has been my personal downfall. Deep scratches are seldom very noticeable after sanding and finishing. If they are noticeable and it bugs you , use a was pencil to fill in the offensive blemish before you apply furniture wax. If it's not that bad a blemish, the wax itself will make it hardly noticeable. It's hard to remember the little blemish you fuss about is something very very few people would ever notice unless you pointed it out to them .It take me hours and hours to try and cover up a spot where I sand thru veneer and it never looks as good as it would if I had just not tried to be perfect.
Hope this helps a little and doesn't confuse you. Details have a tendency to pop into my head whenever they feel like it , not necessary in the order they should be written. Good luck, john

 

[Sam08861]

Thanks imready, that is very helpful.

I'm very much a sand it down guy and the to veneer has indeed gotten pretty thin from where I power sanded earlier. It's going to be hand tools and hand sanding from here on out.

Decided to start with the parts that don't need to be built up as they're much less intimidating. First scribed with utility knife and straight edge to make 2 triangles. Then used my chisels to clean up and bring the MDF level down.




Next, I'm going to use the tape trick from the 1st video to cut the donor veneer just right. Off to get some masking tape, as I've found 7 different tapes around the house but no masking tape, lol. Isn't that always the case? Hopefully I'll find that quick set 2 part epoxy while I'm out.

 

[Sam08861]

Guess the first corner was for lessons learned.

Hand sanded with 400


Applied some oil. Next time I'll be much more careful cutting the speaker side and be much more deliberate in carving close to the veneer with the chisel. As you can see I created some 'new chips.

Also, next corner, I'll spend much more time lining up the grain.



While it's still very noticeable, it's much better than before and not an immediate eysore. The flash on shows the differences well, but next corner will be better and I'll redo this one after getting the cabinet whole and learning more, since it's the biggest area.

You can see I need to sand flush next time as the front egde is a bit proud of the frame on the front.

It's a start!

 

[Sam08861]

2nd corner is a 2 sider... spending much more time scoring with the utility knife to get a straighter interface and less chipping of the existing veneer.



Let's hope this one turns out much better than the 1st! Will spend a lot more time prepping, selecting / lining up wood grain, etc.

for the 1st corner, a wax pencil helped a lot with the messy join in the prior post.

 

[Sam08861]

a bit better fitment, but still need to work on grain matching and not breaking the pointy ends of the triangles.

imready,

I re-read your post and will try and incorporate the learnings about long run of grain being the longer piece on the next corner.

The flash in the photo makes the join look much worse than it is. I'll take another photo after running a wax pencil to see if that works here.

 

[Steven Tate]

I think you're getting the hang of it. Well done! It reminds me of something I saw on HGTV the other night. They were working on a large frame with mitered corners and one of the pieces of wood was a bit twisted which left a slightly larger gap than they wanted. One of the carpenters blurted out what is apparently an old carpenter's saying -- "A little putty and paint will hide what you cain't"

 

[Sam08861]

Thanks Steven and everyone,

It ain't pretty, but it's way better than before.

The rounded off corners are next and I'm leaning toward imready's technique of veneer first then 'backfilling' with bondo. I'm thinking for the larger areas a partially driven flat head screw will give something for the bondo to wrap around and hold on to, to add some mechanical stability, in addition to the chemical bonding, which is supposed to be pretty good, from what I'm reading as it adheres to bare metal and fiberglass really well and is super strong compared to wood filler.

My plan is to finish squaring everything off and live with it for a bit to see how much it bugs me. At the very least, I'll have a nice square box where it'll be very easy to put a full veneer layer if I have to. Short of that I'll come back and redo the 1st and 2nd corners as I've learned enough along the way that I think I can do better if I take my time and don't rush so much.

It seems the biggest challenge is grain and color matching.

I only used the remnants from the 1229Q plinth since I hadn't thrown it away and from what I've read also walnut, though not sure if it's the same species. Seems to match the sides and face frame much better than the top and not darkening as much with the natural danish oil as the original speaker veneer. Not sure if more coats will help as I did put 5 or 6 layers on the tops over the past few weeks.

If I do end up doing new veneer on the tops, I'll go ahead and address the frame face where I didn't sand in the corners where my orbital sander wouldn't reach. (as you can see in the last picture in post #13) My multi tool should reach, I just have to find out where I put the dang attachment for sanding pads.

 

[Sam08861]

Here's a pic of the 2nd corner again in daylight after a brief rubbing in of some Dap blend stick that I had laying around. Color is off but helped with small cracks and another pass might fill those little holes along the join on the side. The daylight vs. flash made the biggest difference, I think though. I've got to get to about 18" to see it at all, even looking for it. From there forward, it's obvious if looking for it, but not standing out. At 12 inches, it's clearly visible and noticeable. Photo is from 1 foot or so with my wide angle lens. I might be able to live with it, I'll see.

 

[Sam08861]

As I was thinking that I could make up a jig for the corners out of 3 pieces of MDF, it dawned on me that we have jigs readymade, lying all over the place in the form of cardboard and plastic boxes. Got this one recently for a record clamp.



This was the inner box, but the outer would have worked just as well. Glued 2 flaps to make a corner, and thinking I could spray it with vegetable oil, poly or gluing in wax paper or painters tape to keep it from sticking to the bondo, or at least make it easier to get off, though paper ought to peel then sand easy. Thought is I could re-use it, but sure there's plenty of old stiff cardboard iphone/ipod/watch/etc. boxes, etc with nice sharp corners and such that I keep around for no good reason. (other than this one!).

If I were making a permanent one, I'd make one out of plexiglass and in a pyramid shape maybe 4" deep per edge, so that you could see what's happening underneath, but don't think I'll ever have to do this very often. (I hope!)

Plan of attack for the rounded corner is to:

1. First pre drill and then screw in a drywall type screw with big threads (or more if required), protruding at least 1/2" but secure in the wood.
2. Cover the screw with enough bondo to complete the corner, then use the jig to squash the bondo into shape, adding or removing bondo as necessary.
... repeat as necessary, reusing if possible or making more jigs.
3. Once dry, I can cut straight lines out of the existing veneer,
4. Sand bondo to depth or cut with a multi-tool on a piece of wood clamped to it and glide the flat bottom of the blade against that to get a consistent, thin depth.
5. And then glue on the veneer, sand and stain.

Will post results.

 

[Sam08861]

Unfortunately, must have thrown away the bondo I had, so will have to wait until tomorrow, but did find that an old iphone box yields 8 very good corner jigs.



These 4 are from the top and measure 1/8" thick and very hard and stiff so won't deform easily. Messy curved cuts are with a hacksaw, which binds. Smooth cuts are with a utility knife. A score helps keep the straight line before a series of plunge cuts as it's pretty tough for cardboard and the blade bends if you're not cutting perpendicular.