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Affordable Speakers 4 ohms for Pioneer SX1250 Under $1200.00

bernie Stag said:
Its not a hard figure anymore, I seem to be landing in the $1500.00 to $1800.00 range at this point Wharfedale Linton Heritage and EVO 4.3 so far, I looked at JBL but not sure they fit
yet. I listen to R&B, Funk, Classic Rock (Floyd really loud and Zappa is a go to and SRV lol), and some Metal, especially Metallica w/San Fran orchestra I love a good multi instrumental composition.This is not an easy research
so many diff options and opinions out there.
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Well, the SX1250 was made during the "Locanthi era" and was voiced to be a sonic match to the speakers that Locanthi designed, in particular, the Pioneer HPM100. So you might give that a try. A great match for the music you say you are into as well. And you will be under budget as an added bonus. I have a sx1250 and HPM100 and I personally think pioneer did a good job matching them. So you might at the very least consider the HPM100, other HPMs as well before making a choice.
 
MaxP said:
I’m still having trouble understanding the desire for 4 ohm speakers.
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He probably thinks that with a 4ohm speaker he will get more power out of the amplifier for a given amount of gain. More SPL potential?

Thats the only argument I have seen in favor of shooting for 4ohm loads.
 
And while you may get more power into a lower impedance load, aren't you also more likely to have the protection circuitry kicking in?
 
z-adamson said:
Well, the SX1250 was made during the "Locanthi era" and was voiced to be a sonic match to the speakers that Locanthi designed, in particular, the Pioneer HPM100. So you might give that a try. A great match for the music you say you are into as well. And you will be under budget as an added bonus. I have a sx1250 and HPM100 and I personally think pioneer did a good job matching them. So you might at the very least consider the HPM100, other HPMs as well before making a choice.
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Where did you get this information?

Seems like someone's speculation to me. I had some HPMs...they sounded pretty much the same on any decent amp, including an SX950 I had at the time.

I did not realize that amps were "voiced" for particular speakers.
 
Nat said:
And while you may get more power into a lower impedance load, aren't you also more likely to have the protection circuitry kicking in?
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No, if truly 4 Ohm and the receiver in proper condition it is rated for 200WPC RMS (likely 1kHz sine wave) continuous.
 
If by truly 4 Ohm, you mean no variation from 4 Ohms, there probably is no such thing - speakers are complex loads, and there are always peaks and troughs in impedance at various frequencies (if memory serves, usually the lowest impedance is above and below the resonant frequency of the system (which is in the low end, which is where most power is drawn)). When you start out at 4 Ohms, there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room before you are approaching a dead short at the minima, and transistors don't like that, and protection will start kicking in.
I don't believe the amount of raw power makes any difference, though different amps have different levels of tolerance for very low impedance.
I don't mean this as a condemnation of 4 Ohm speakers, but to counter the OP's apparent initial impression that he would get more volume out of lower impedance speakers than normal impedance. Not only is impedance not the same as efficiency, he has plenty of power for almost any speaker he wants to use.
 
Low impedance speakers are not better than higher impedance speakers, and can eat amps. I think they are an affectation, like using a monocle or wearing spats, and in worst case simply wagging around that fact that someone is spending lots of money since speakers that have impedance dips approaching a dead short require giant expensive amps (and even then blow up often).

Volume is not quality, louder is usually the opposite of "better sound", and wattage required isn't directly related to sound output. The difference in output wattage with 4 ohm speakers is usually waste heat I think, since the current draw is much higher. Hot heat sinks and roasting voice coils isn't an improvement to my way of thinking.

4 ohm speakers aren't going to give you better sound than 8 ohm speakers if they are both well designed (and I have my doubts about the design of speakers with impedance dips approaching 1 ohm!). Buy what sounds good to you.

And keep the SPL well below 85dB unless you like being deaf.......
 
HPMguy said:
Low impedance speakers are not better than higher impedance speakers, and can eat amps. I think they are an affectation, like using a monocle or wearing spats, and in worst case simply wagging around that fact that someone is spending lots of money since speakers that have impedance dips approaching a dead short require giant expensive amps (and even then blow up often).

Volume is not quality, louder is usually the opposite of "better sound", and wattage required isn't directly related to sound output. The difference in output wattage with 4 ohm speakers is usually waste heat I think, since the current draw is much higher. Hot heat sinks and roasting voice coils isn't an improvement to my way of thinking.

4 ohm speakers aren't going to give you better sound than 8 ohm speakers if they are both well designed (and I have my doubts about the design of speakers with impedance dips approaching 1 ohm!). Buy what sounds good to you.

And keep the SPL well below 85dB unless you like being deaf.......
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SPL is indeed directly related to wattage/power.

But sensitivity is not a function of impedance.

I sometimes listen at an average SPL in the upper 80s (dB) for limited time periods. Not deaf, and no reason to think that I would be.
 
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SPL is NOT directly related to wattage, it's directly related to the factor of speaker sensitivity and wattage. A speaker with a sensitivity of 86dB/watt is going to take a huge amount of wattage to match the SPL of a speaker with 97dB/watt. And most of that wattage is used for bass anyway.

In other words, more watts equals more SPL, but different speakers will produce a different SPL at a given wattage. Actual SPL from a given amp watt is wholly dependent upon the senstivity of the speaker in question.

Which of course means that higher wattage through a 4 ohm speaker may in fact give you far less SPL than fewer watts with a higher sensitivity speaker.

It's all physics, no magic involved.

As noted, impedance and sensitivity are not directly related -- my Pop's old Utah speakers produce amazing amounts of sound with very little driving power. 8 ohm I think. And my uncle's 1950s Altec Lansing folded horn made plenty of noise with a low wattage tube amp and was 16 ohm.

The power meters barely flicker on the amps I have that use them when I'm at a comfortable listening level.
 
SPL IS directly related to wattage. The more wattage, the more SPL. The less wattage, the less SPL. That is called a direct relationship. Are you really disputing this?

Will a speaker with higher sensitivity be louder than one with lower sensitivity, given the same power? Of course. This fact has no bearing on the fact that SPL is indeed directly related to wattage.

Who said anything about magic? I think I have a pretty good grasp of the physics.
 
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Seems that this is an argument about how the claim is phrased. With a given speaker, of course more watts means more SPL/volume. But between two speakers, the lower impedance one may not be the more sensitive one, and the higher power rating that results from a lower impedance load may not be sufficient to make the lower impedance speaker louder - the range of effiencies of speaker is much wider than the 2:1 ratio of impedances between an 8 ohm speaker and a 4 ohm speaker.
And that is before any issues with protection.
 
I did not suggest that lower impedance makes a speaker more (or less) sensitive.

As I said above, sensitivity is not a function of impedance.

Nor does lower impedance result in a higher power rating. It does, however, result in a higher power (current) draw from the amplifier at a given voltage; that is, at any given position of the volume control.
 
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spark1 said:
Where did you get this information?

Seems like someone's speculation to me. I had some HPMs...they sounded pretty much the same on any decent amp, including an SX950 I had at the time.

I did not realize that amps were "voiced" for particular speakers.
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I have read/heard many times that sx1250 and hpm100 were made to be a match and that sx1980 and hpm150 were made to be a match. I have heard this here and elsewhere. I don't interpret this to mean that they shouldn't be used with other gear. The story I recall is that with the sx1980, they needed speakers that could handle the power. In comes the hpm150. With the sx1250, it was something to do the preamp and it being good match to the hpm100 and it's overly forward sounding mids. I don't recall specifics, but the gist is that there was an effort to match the voice of the hpm100 to the preamp in the sx1250.

Kinda like how the Realistic Mach One was a match to the Realistic STA2000....the loudness circuit was made to show off the boomy bass of the mach one.
 
Spark1: you are correct that a lower impedance doesn't make an amp more powerful but the way amps are rated results in different power ratings at different impedances, and the way the OP phrased his question suggested that he was under the impression that the reciever would be more powerful, and I was addressing that.
 
Thanks you all for your suggestions and input I have decided to try the JBL Stage A190's as they are in my current Price point and the seem a little more better that the Studio 590's with an additional crossover point.I masy be wrong on that thought but free returns make it a good starting point.
Thanks
 
z-adamson said:
Well, the SX1250 was made during the "Locanthi era" and was voiced to be a sonic match to the speakers that Locanthi designed, in particular, the Pioneer HPM100. So you might give that a try. A great match for the music you say you are into as well. And you will be under budget as an added bonus. I have a sx1250 and HPM100 and I personally think pioneer did a good job matching them. So you might at the very least consider the HPM100, other HPMs as well before making a choice.
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Thanks, I just researched them a few out there for around $1000.00, def would need to do a little rebuild I am sure also to bring them back to specs. Appreciate your response.
 
I hope you enjoy them! If you want HPMs, though, the ones to get are the 900s -- next version, not nearly as "desirable", but as good or better than the 100s. I love mine, and I got them cheap because the woofers needed to be refoamed. Took an hour each....
 
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