Air Guns
- Thread starter Falstaff
- Start date
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Leave it alone. Nothing about the Benji pumpers is appropriate for the pressures involved with a PCP platform. The main tube is brass. The hammer weight and valve are optimized for the maximum recommended 8 strokes, valve lock begins between 9 and 10 strokes on a healthy gun.
If you want to "build", buy a Discovery(disco) tube and trigger group, get a breech and shroud kit from BNM Customs, and slap it all in a Boyd's Blaster thumbhole stock.
The disco is easy to hand pump as it requires only a 2000psi fill.
carewser
New Member
I have enough Crosmans to spell Crosman.
The only Crosman I have seems to be the only Crosman you don't have, the Vigilante .357
soundmotor
super modified
I have (2) Crosmans I need to send off to Dave Gunther. He rebuilt my 102 for me and did a great job.
Picked up a 600 at auction ($15, yippee!) and 60s Powermaster at a yard sale ($1).
Picked up a 600 at auction ($15, yippee!) and 60s Powermaster at a yard sale ($1).
Pio1980
AK Member
I'm not a fan of PCP, it negates the self contained nature of pumper and spring piston guns while providing the power of a .22 short. Just doesn't make economic sense to me outside of modern competition target shooting where PCP has become standard.
Pumper are good farm and ranch pest control guns around other animals in pens, and in silos and graineries.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Pumper are good farm and ranch pest control guns around other animals in pens, and in silos and graineries.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
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soundmotor
super modified
Age & inattention for ~40 years. The seals are toast on it. I just need to decide what upgrades I want to do, there are a few to choose from -
Crosman 600 Mods
Airguns in MA never go for much when you find them. For the 600, $15 was the second bid at auction and no more after it.
22 cal. RWS Diana 350 Magnum here
I bought my son a Benjamin nitro piston gun for Christmas this year and it's a great gun as well.
I found the key to accuracy aside from gun hold is to find the pellet that your gun shoots straight consistently and stick with it. My Diana really like a Polish made pellet, I can't remember the manufacturer, Crossman "Premier's" were a close second.
I bought my son a Benjamin nitro piston gun for Christmas this year and it's a great gun as well.
I found the key to accuracy aside from gun hold is to find the pellet that your gun shoots straight consistently and stick with it. My Diana really like a Polish made pellet, I can't remember the manufacturer, Crossman "Premier's" were a close second.
xero-D-hero
Super Member
Interesting read for sure !
I used to work @ Benjamin/Sheridan back in the mid/late 80's (that was back before they got bought up by Crossman) so threads like this always get my attention and I dig reading up on the current state of the hobby and the gear being used.
Plus we have squirrel issues as well...
Anyhow back around that time they had just bought the rights & tooling for the Sterling designed air rifle and they were trying to put it back into production,but with the folks running the company back then,that deal turned into a major cluster-f**k in like zero seconds flat.
Big $$$$ maker back then was the paintball guns,those we were cranking out like hotcakes.
Anyhow,I digress.
Bret P ~ ØD
I used to work @ Benjamin/Sheridan back in the mid/late 80's (that was back before they got bought up by Crossman) so threads like this always get my attention and I dig reading up on the current state of the hobby and the gear being used.
Plus we have squirrel issues as well...
Anyhow back around that time they had just bought the rights & tooling for the Sterling designed air rifle and they were trying to put it back into production,but with the folks running the company back then,that deal turned into a major cluster-f**k in like zero seconds flat.
Big $$$$ maker back then was the paintball guns,those we were cranking out like hotcakes.
Anyhow,I digress.
Bret P ~ ØD
mfrench
Addicted Member
Bump ^
I debated between this thread, and its precisely named topic, and, a longer thread that actually gained a little more head. Since this one is titled Air Guns, it gets the bump.
OK,... In bumping this, I'm trying to let the center-fire powder burners have thier thread, and hoping this air guns thread gains some momentum.
I have two air rifles; a new Beeman Chief 1322 .22 PCP, and, a 20 year old Crosman 2100 Classic .177
My Crosman has been a ground squirrel devastator. But, they've been pushed back out of its range. So, I started looking for something with a bit more range.
Prior to the Beeman, I had purchased a Ruger Targus .22 springer. I quickly found out that I do not like an air rifle that kicks like a mule. I tried like crazy to like that thing, but, it bounced so much that the scope view became completely off with/after the shot. I ended up having to search for the target by eye, or, trying to find it again with the scope. I learned nothing about each shot, except if I were shooting at targets. My targets have four legs, and a furry tail, and are really fast,.. not paper.
Finally, in frustration, I returned the Ruger, and, started researching the PCP-type shooters.
I loved what I saw of the PCP shooters, except for the pricing of most of them. Its real easy to go to the high hundred$ or even into the thousand$
I was looking for a couple of parameters,... entry level; affordability, ~$200. And, a single shot rifle; I have no interest in any form of a multi-shot magazine.
In my research, I found the Beeman Chief 1322 .22 caliber PCP single shot, entry level rifle (read: buildable ready). My parameters were actually quite challenging, as it turns out.
I bought this Chief rifle, new, a few months ago now. It has been a challenge to figure out how it shoots, to say the least.
By challenging,... I mean trying to get it sighted, and, for that sighting to stay consistent.
gotta run,... gonna post this for now, and will follow it up later,...
I debated between this thread, and its precisely named topic, and, a longer thread that actually gained a little more head. Since this one is titled Air Guns, it gets the bump.
OK,... In bumping this, I'm trying to let the center-fire powder burners have thier thread, and hoping this air guns thread gains some momentum.
I have two air rifles; a new Beeman Chief 1322 .22 PCP, and, a 20 year old Crosman 2100 Classic .177
My Crosman has been a ground squirrel devastator. But, they've been pushed back out of its range. So, I started looking for something with a bit more range.
Prior to the Beeman, I had purchased a Ruger Targus .22 springer. I quickly found out that I do not like an air rifle that kicks like a mule. I tried like crazy to like that thing, but, it bounced so much that the scope view became completely off with/after the shot. I ended up having to search for the target by eye, or, trying to find it again with the scope. I learned nothing about each shot, except if I were shooting at targets. My targets have four legs, and a furry tail, and are really fast,.. not paper.
Finally, in frustration, I returned the Ruger, and, started researching the PCP-type shooters.
I loved what I saw of the PCP shooters, except for the pricing of most of them. Its real easy to go to the high hundred$ or even into the thousand$
I was looking for a couple of parameters,... entry level; affordability, ~$200. And, a single shot rifle; I have no interest in any form of a multi-shot magazine.
In my research, I found the Beeman Chief 1322 .22 caliber PCP single shot, entry level rifle (read: buildable ready). My parameters were actually quite challenging, as it turns out.
I bought this Chief rifle, new, a few months ago now. It has been a challenge to figure out how it shoots, to say the least.
By challenging,... I mean trying to get it sighted, and, for that sighting to stay consistent.
gotta run,... gonna post this for now, and will follow it up later,...
dosmalo
T-Totaled
I sighted my Ruger in with paper targets placed at various spots within my backyard. I will admit and agree it took quite some time to finally sight it in but once I got there it has been consistently on the mark.
The only recommendation I have is to shoot and shoot often. Mine actually tightened up and became more accurate and the trigger action became crisper the more I shot it to dial it in. Now it hits whatever is in the cross hair time after time.
With either one, the Ruger or Beeman, keep shooting them - the more the better.
The only recommendation I have is to shoot and shoot often. Mine actually tightened up and became more accurate and the trigger action became crisper the more I shot it to dial it in. Now it hits whatever is in the cross hair time after time.
With either one, the Ruger or Beeman, keep shooting them - the more the better.
mfrench
Addicted Member
I found this link to how to set up a scope. I have found it very enlightening. It helped solve a lot of isms that I was experiencing.
http://www.fekete-moro.hu/bfta-setup-manual/index-en.php
http://www.fekete-moro.hu/bfta-setup-manual/index-en.php
dosmalo
T-Totaled
Yeah, I monkeyed around with mine awhile back trying to move it back more towards my eye and screwed everything up. Couldn't hit **** with it-not even close. I finally ended up back near to where I thought it was to begin with but then had to go thru the whole trial and error thing tuning it back in and that was a royal pain.
Thanks for the link Mike!
Thanks for the link Mike!
mfrench
Addicted Member
I guess this might be my review of the Beeman Chief .22
When I bought the rifle, I took it as it came, with its supplied open sights, no scope. I sighted it in using the iron sights (actually metal framed fiber optic rear and front sights). The gun sighted in at a low "6-o'clock" sighting, with a larger gap at 6-o'clock. it was very well centered, but a low 6 o-clock sighting.
I didn't spend much time with its open sights, as I had already ordered a scope for it, and was awaiting delivery.
When the scope arrived, I tried zeroing it, and was able to get to center quite quickly. But, there was a problem,... the scope was very erratic.
By erratic, I mean, I got it well zeroed, and whacking center. Then I'd need to pump the rifle up again. In doing so, and in returning to shooting, it was as if the scope had been completely scrambled, and I'd have to start over again in achieving a good zero. By the time I was zeroed again, I'd have to pump up. When I pumped up again, the scope was acting completely scrambled, all over. WTF?!?! It was a viscious circle.
I gave up on that scope, thinkning it was just a cheap scope (it was), and that I needed to get a better scope (I did).
I bought and mounted a UTG BugBuster Accushot AO
I zeroed the scope, and, the results were exactly the same, as just described; find good zero > need to repump > scope settings getting scrambled.
This was getting maddening.
I finally resorted to joining a blog at PyramydAir.com I found that blog via a search for the Beeman Chief. The blog is written by a gent with the moniker of BB Pelletier, aka, Tom Gaylord. As it turns out, Tom is a world reknowned expert on air guns, dating back to the 60's. I also saw him on a cable program titled American Airgunner, in a discussion panel.
He reviewed the Chief, and, had as a scope, the UTG BugBuster Accushot, and was all about the combination.
So, I explained my circumstance, that I had topped out with the adjustments wth two scopes; meaning adjusted them to as high as I could go in an upward elevation direction, and had the adjustments hammered hard up at that level.
He explaied that any scope that is pushed that far is like a clock spring about ready to uncoil and explode; and in fact, that is what was happening to the scope.
Unknown to me, I had taken the internal sighting tube, and, pushed it far beyond its extremes, and the slightest jarring was causing the scope to go completely out of adjustment; read: any time that I went to pump the rifle back up to pressure, that action of setting the rifle down was in fact scrambling the settings.
He suggested a bent barrel, and, I concurred.
I went to Beeman, and, with the assistance of Peter the tech, we spent several hours tearing the gun down into bare components, and checking every single piece and action. This included rolling the barrel on a granite measurement table (milled to the millionth of an inch to true flatness). The barrel rolled true and straight; not bent.
Peter found that my safety wasn't to his liking, so he replaced the entire air handling bits, trigger mechanism. The only original parts that my rifle had after our visit was the barrel, and the stock; all else replaced. Beeman was great!
So, I get back home, and, sight the scope; dead on. I go to pump it back up, and, the scope settings go to **** again. WTF??
The scope is still bottomed out, and needs to be able to be adjusted upward to free up the sighting tube,...
I go back to PyramydAir blog, and, post again of my circumstance. Tom picks back up on it, and suggests that the barrel, while rolling straight, might be drilled not true to center. He suggests a syndrome called Drooper, or drooping barrel, which I guess happens with the break-barrel design as the locking spring weakens over time.
Tom suggests that he worked with the UTG people to create a forward sloping scope mount that points the scope downward to follow the drooping barrels of a particular German manufacturer.
He referred to my barrel as a drooper, but, it is not a break-barrel, it just focuses forward and down. My barrel is fixed in position by an aluminum collar that locks the barrel to the air reservoir tube. More on this aluminum collar later,.....
So I bought the adaptor that Tom had designed for the Diana rifle, and, fitted it to my Dovetail rail. The adaptor is a Dovetail to Picatinny adaptor, and canted forward such to give 10" of elevation lift at 90m
I went out, and, I was able to drastically reduce the elevation turret to be far lower, and closer to the opposite end of the adjustment scale, but, still within adjustability range.
This brought stability to the scope, finally!!
I can now adjust the scope, and, it stays zeroed! This was like climbing vertical mountains to achieve.
The aluminum adjusting collar,...
It is as a standoff between the barrel, and keeps the barrel and air chamber parallel, and keeps the barrel centered. It is held in place by a series of small set screws.
After I got back from Beeman, I found that I was pulling slightly left. I compensated by scope adjustments. Then one day, I loked down the barrel, and found that it was not parallel to the air chamber, which is seated in, and parallel to the stock, and it supports the barrel. It appeared that the abrrel was just a couple of degrees from true parallel, which would cause pulling. So I marked the collar and air chamber with tape, and fine marking pen, to be able to return to the beginning point, and I moved the barrel back to being better centered, by eye. The scope needed to be adjusted to compliment the change, and the pulling went away.
OK,... does this sound like a love hate story?
I love the shooter. I've tweaked it to be a really dialed in shooting iron.
My only real complaint (I actually ahve another) is that it is loud; but that can be made to be different.
The bluing is near worthless. I've turned a surface brown patina, despite regular maintenance.
The PCP format is a pile driver. It operates between 1k and 2k lbs of pressure in its onbard tank. This thing loves its heavy pellets! My next pellet selection will be 25grain slugs that hardly resemble skirted pellets.
I zeroed the scope using some 14grain cheap pellets, to get me on paper. I changed to 18grain hollow points as my go-to slugs. Then I tried some 21 grain pellets, and the group flew consistently 4 inches higher than the 18grain slugs.
I took that high grouping to my advantage a couple of weeks ago now, and, I went long range.
This is prety much where I'm at with this.
I'm building up a taller cheek weld pad; I'm tall, with a long face. I need the added height, but, need to bring the cheek up. I'm going to wrap it in leather, and leather lace tie it to the stock.
You can see the forward canted Leapers/UTG dovetail-picatinny rail adaptor, ^
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mfrench
Addicted Member
I nailed one myself this evening just before dinner (we had order out pizza, fwiw)
The ground squirrels that we have here are intense diggers. They get rather strong and thick in their chests.
Killing them isn't ever an easy thing.
By that I mean,... multiple things I guess.
Head shots.
I can immediately tell if I hit them in the head; I try not to.
Why?
They are like an intensely, tightly wound spring, that when disrupted, explode violently. When I've brained them, they will flip and flop, sometimes feet into the air, and, traveling distance away from the point of impact.
The kill, immediate, and clean. But the entire rear of the skull was missing; no brain was present in the cavity. But the thing flopped for a full minute before expiring. They are literally like chickens with their heads cut off.
So, I always take aim for across the shoulders, as the lungs and heart are between them as well. When I whack them across the shoulders, they simply tip over, and die. Quick and clean.
I whacked one at long distance yesterday afternoon; a brainer. ugh.
My game lately has been mostly long distance shots. By that I mean 150' minimum, and, in one recent instance, three times that.
Yesterdays shot was at 200', and, my fourth successful kill at that depth this week.
The shot, 200' into the clearing,...
Immediately at dead center of the image are two shadows. The smaller, "higher" shadow is the target zone.
For the observant,... yes, that is a road. That road ends at my driveway, about 50' left of image. The only cars coming or going, ever, are ours. There is no other traffic.
The shot is onto my neighbors border with an abandoned macadamia nut farm, and is the source of an endless stream of rodents. It is with his full knowledge and approval. The backdrop is a sharply rising vacant open land slope.
Once again, target near the center of the image, just barely wide-right of the vegetation:
Just right of center, and right of vegetation:
And a different angle. Thats as close as my camera will zoom.
The shot,....
There is a constant breeze from left to right.
I've learned the trajectory of my present pellets, Gamo Red Fire 15.4grain. At 200', I need to hold the scope over 1 mil-dot. To compensate for the constant breeze, I hold left by 1 mil-dot So I'm essentially focusing two up and two dots left, putting me into the lower right quadrant of the four crosshair quadrants, just slightly off dead-center.
OK,... techie **** aside,... I've made this shot three other times this week, and, pull the trigger.
Because the Chief has no kick, I'm watching the scope view like a video game, waiting for the impact, and,.... WTF? It appeared that I hit high above the critter. as indicated by the dust.
Then I look again at the squirrel, and its just sitting there. Suddenly it tips over, and starts into flopping all over the place, just up and down mostly. Then it stopped, and started into this Curly Spin (Three Stooges). FACK,... I brained it. The poof of dust was the pellet after it deflected out of the brain pan, and hit dirt behind the rodent.
This spinning kept up for fully a minute. It was dead, but, the nerves were still firing, like a chicken with no head.
It finally stooped the spinning, but, its legs were still kicking. It stopped broadside to me. So, I took aim again, and popped it a second time, just to make sure.
Two Shots - One Squirrel
I hate braining them.
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dosmalo
T-Totaled
Great write up Mike!
Love that Beeman and scope set up too - that's one hot looking spread! I really like that.
I ended up using a rail adapter on mine for clearance between the barrel and scope front. I'm pretty fussy about the scope and if I have it leaning up in the corner of the kitchen I'm always telling my wife "Be careful and don't bump the gun and knock the scope off!" Instead of moving it she'll tell me to come and move it out of her way.
Lol! I married good this time.
Love that Beeman and scope set up too - that's one hot looking spread! I really like that.
I ended up using a rail adapter on mine for clearance between the barrel and scope front. I'm pretty fussy about the scope and if I have it leaning up in the corner of the kitchen I'm always telling my wife "Be careful and don't bump the gun and knock the scope off!" Instead of moving it she'll tell me to come and move it out of her way.
Lol! I married good this time.