Note too I said <somewhat> dull and lifeless. I think it’s a good speaker and leagues ahead of such extraordinarily dull and lifeless speakers such as the constipated AR3 and Advent.
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Altec Model 19 or JBL 4333
- Thread starter Jbl Joe
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Note too I said <somewhat> dull and lifeless. I think it’s a good speaker and leagues ahead of such extraordinarily dull and lifeless speakers such as the constipated AR3 and Advent.
I should have only said <somewhat> tone deaf. 
But really, there is an AKer somewhat local to me who swears that if I come hear his Altec 19s with his setup, I'll change my mind about them. I suppose I should take him up on that some day.
I don't know if he even posts any more.
But really, there is an AKer somewhat local to me who swears that if I come hear his Altec 19s with his setup, I'll change my mind about them. I suppose I should take him up on that some day.
I don't know if he even posts any more.
I had 2234s in my L200/300 clones, Walnut external horns with 2" drivers, and the 2405 slots on top!
Nah. Not at all. Neither do I.Tom doesn't have strong opinions or anything.
The difference between 2234 and 2235 is the mass ring that sits on top of the voice coil. It lowers the Fs at the cost of some sensitivity.
At the cost of some sensitivity, but the cost is not linear across the band, and it reduces midrange clarity and increases tubbiness. My L200/300s have "AlNiCo 2235's" and if I had them redone again, I would have the rings left out. They are not necessary if you use a sub.
Remember that the 15" reproduces the majority of the vocal range fundamentals, even for ladies.
Remember that the 15" reproduces the majority of the vocal range fundamentals, even for ladies.
Yep, knew that.
I had a pair of 2234s and a pair of 2235s at the time. I had just bought a pair of 4341 and found the PO had replaced the original drivers with the 2234s (they did pro sound and apparently had them handy),
and I got some 2235s from a Lansing forum member in Canada to make them right. But as long as they were loose, I tried the 2235s in the L200s first,
and when I swapped them out, I found I preferred the 2234s in there.
I have an extra pair of baskets out in the shop. I may have to build them and do a little A/B-ing.
Ideally, I would like to have a pair of 4343 or 4344, but it's pretty unlikely that I will find any that are even close to my price range.
I will say that Altec 288 and 802 drivers are very high resolution devices ( sporting a lush mid-range ) and that it borders on criminal to mask what they can deliver with lousy horns .
It's a shame that Zilch passed away since he & I were trading our findings back & force looking into the whole 811/511 ringing-horn bugaboo .
Here's one of his CSD waterfalls ( for an unmounted/ un-terminated 811b ) which displays the very definition of excessive ringing ( keep in mind that signals 10db down are half as loud to ones auditory senses ).
- All that energy starting at @ 1.8 milliseconds and continuing on past 5.5 ms is audible ringing ( & it'll only get worse with more drive signal ).
Here's one of mine ( for an 802 on a no-name plastic horn ).
It's decay is much quicker, more even across the range & cascades down to a lower db figure ( all in all, this combo is much better behaved ).
While these are really apples to oranges comparisons it shows the beginning of the work that's needed to quantify ( & reconcile ) the varying experiences people have with all this stuff.
For example, we never got to retest the ringing profile of Zilch's horn/driver combo to see how many db ( of ringing ) would get shaved off by the mounting of the combo to a baffle-board ( since most agree that it does make a difference ). Test#3 ( & on ) would be to quantify the effect of the various bell damping techniques.
If one equates ringing to a distortion figure a worthy goal would be to reduce ringing to 40db down ( getting there quickly & evenly ) since this would get it into the 1% THD range.
PS: ( just a bit of background ) I've been a long term JBL Pro user since 1977 but prefer Altec HF drivers for critical home listening .
It's a shame that Zilch passed away since he & I were trading our findings back & force looking into the whole 811/511 ringing-horn bugaboo .
Here's one of his CSD waterfalls ( for an unmounted/ un-terminated 811b ) which displays the very definition of excessive ringing ( keep in mind that signals 10db down are half as loud to ones auditory senses ).
- All that energy starting at @ 1.8 milliseconds and continuing on past 5.5 ms is audible ringing ( & it'll only get worse with more drive signal ).
Here's one of mine ( for an 802 on a no-name plastic horn ).
It's decay is much quicker, more even across the range & cascades down to a lower db figure ( all in all, this combo is much better behaved ).
While these are really apples to oranges comparisons it shows the beginning of the work that's needed to quantify ( & reconcile ) the varying experiences people have with all this stuff.
For example, we never got to retest the ringing profile of Zilch's horn/driver combo to see how many db ( of ringing ) would get shaved off by the mounting of the combo to a baffle-board ( since most agree that it does make a difference ). Test#3 ( & on ) would be to quantify the effect of the various bell damping techniques.
If one equates ringing to a distortion figure a worthy goal would be to reduce ringing to 40db down ( getting there quickly & evenly ) since this would get it into the 1% THD range.
PS: ( just a bit of background ) I've been a long term JBL Pro user since 1977 but prefer Altec HF drivers for critical home listening .
Horny JBLites and Altecistas are the koolest kats in audio. That goes for EVangelists too.
bean_counter
Active Member
For me it's really a tough call, I like both. I think the Altec 19 is probably the better speaker, but it doesn't go as low, and I've always had issues with that 811 horn, no matter what it's in. The L300 goes lower and with enough authority to avoid a sub, but the bass can get a bit tubby.
Mine are L300 based, but Edgar salad bowl horns instead of the JBL horn/lens. Oh, and Tom's old 076's.
Mine are L300 based, but Edgar salad bowl horns instead of the JBL horn/lens. Oh, and Tom's old 076's
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Jbl Joe
Well-Known Member
I haven't used them in quite a long time but all recall is that the studio returned them for 4311's. You are right not nany speakers cab compete with 4350. But the 19 more than holds its own versus 4333. I feel for you losing the 14. My fiancé bought me a Simon Yorke Series 9 turntable .She's a keeper!!
Jbl Joe
Well-Known Member
damacman
Resident Psycho
Indeed. Here are the only Altecs I still have, pictured in my last home - 9846-8A. I bought them in 1992 or 1993 - I can't recall. They were flown in a church just outside of Little Rock. They upgraded the system and these came down. I recently re-capped the crossover networks and they sound simply glorious. Currently, I have an MC7300 connected to them but they don't get used very much. My fiance has been after me to fly them over the bass cabs of the XRT22s to get them into the family room. I don't know about that but I would certainly like to get them into rotation more often than they are at present.
I also have a spare set of NIB 411-8A squirreled away for them should I ever need 'em.
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Jbl Joe
Well-Known Member
You have a incredible system . what turntable are you using
Jbl Joe
Well-Known Member
If at all possible move them at least 2ft from the front wall toed in slightly. Those horns need space
Interesting thread and opinions, will follow along. I am in kinda the same boat, was debating selling my Altec A7s and adding 077s to my JBL L200Bs (or finding L300s / 4333s).
Jbl Joe
Well-Known Member
Whatever sounds best with your associated equipment, room and music. I worked for jbl for 25 years outfitting recording studios but since they were sister companies l sold a bit of altecs. Heres a photo of my jbl and vot's in the background
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gdmoore28
Super Member
I'm curious how moving them away from the wall could possibly affect the horns. Toeing them in will naturally concentrate the on axis response of the horns on the listening area, but I've never heard of horns being wall-dependant in the slightest. (And that would certainly put a kink in all those horn-based systems that were soffit-mounted in recording studios worldwide, wouldn't it?
)GeeDeeEmm
Jbl Joe
Well-Known Member
By looking at photo the proximity to both rear and side will definitely the resonance peaks of the horn.I'm curious how moving them away from the wall could possibly affect the horns. Toeing them in will naturally concentrate the on axis response of the horns on the listening area, but I've never heard of horns being wall-dependant in the slightest. (And that would certainly put a kink in all those horn-based systems that were soffit-mounted in recording studios worldwide, wouldn't it?
GeeDeeEmm