MacGM
Member
Dudes a retiree, give him some slack.. Probably has the itch on his perfectly adequate system and thinking through options on forums.
Nothing has to be cut n dry...
Am I hopelessly dated with my gear? Upgrades?
- Thread starter Azimuth
- Start date
Dudes a retiree, give him some slack.. Probably has the itch on his perfectly adequate system and thinking through options on forums.
Nothing has to be cut n dry...
doctor fuse
Super Member
Backdate your amplification with a tube amp from the 60s! 
Taketheflame
Super Member
Someone on here asking if their gear is dated? Have I stepped into an alternate reality?
Thanks to this forum, all of my gear was made before I was born, save for one set of speakers, my DAC, and some turntable cartridges. I have no regrets.
Thanks to this forum, all of my gear was made before I was born, save for one set of speakers, my DAC, and some turntable cartridges. I have no regrets.
Azimuth
Well-Known Member
Who is this question for?
MRL_Audio
RIP 2022
You can't really compare a $1,000 cartridge against a low end AT cartridge and Technics table. Apples and logs...
See my post about apples and logs. You're trying to compare some low end Technics gear and an AT cartridge against a $1,000 cartridge. Not sure how that works out. I passed on the Maserati and bought a Chevy. Saved myself a bunch of money.
The only similarity is they both have a motor, wheels, doors etc... can't really compare one to the other!
MRL_Audio
RIP 2022
You should take some time to figure out how these posts and forums work. Notice I quoted you above? That means my reply is directed at you. markmcmuz quoted me a few posts above. Therefore his post was directed at me... hope that provides some help.
Azimuth
Well-Known Member
Please keep replying. I have found this very useful. Inevitably, some seem to have quibbles- but the conversation has been worthwhile. The changes I can make, that seem most supported here, are to upgrade my stylus and possibly my speakers. A new Yamaha receiver with features like my RX 596 (e.g. phono stage) is $549 Cdn on Canadian Amazon. (The next lower model is 50 wpc.) I would be open to an amp without a tuner. I’m looking at speakers and note that there are towers and bookshelfs in consumer level stores, but not the big speakers of the past like my Paradigm 7se. I would prefer (not rigid about it) bookshelf on stands for their looks, but which? I don’t want to lose the good bass from my Paradigms. I would spend up to about $600 Canadian all in, so maybe Elacs? If you can recommend good towers, I would appreciate it as well. Your thoughts?
Azi, you don't seem to be considering a subwoofer? Several, myself included, have mentioned this but it seems to have escaped your radar. Your 'Digms are pretty dang nice speakers (if they are the MK 3 especially) and a sub (or two) would change things like you might not even imagine. Have you ever had a sub? Have you mated one with the Digms?
Can you tell us more about the Paradigms? I see that there is a 7se MK 2 (and MK 1) that is a bookshelf, while the 7se MK 3 is a floor stander which would generate a bit more bass one would think. Which do you have? In any case, my humble opinion is that with a sub, the whole system will be dramatically influenced in a very positive way. Just sayin' amigo. What part of the world do you live in? So, maybe you know someone that can bring one over for you to listen to and see for yourself. It doesn't have to be a huge one either, just enough to pick up the slack on the very, very low frequencies and baddabing, baddaboom, everything changes!!! I will now cease-and-desist
Can you tell us more about the Paradigms? I see that there is a 7se MK 2 (and MK 1) that is a bookshelf, while the 7se MK 3 is a floor stander which would generate a bit more bass one would think. Which do you have? In any case, my humble opinion is that with a sub, the whole system will be dramatically influenced in a very positive way. Just sayin' amigo. What part of the world do you live in? So, maybe you know someone that can bring one over for you to listen to and see for yourself. It doesn't have to be a huge one either, just enough to pick up the slack on the very, very low frequencies and baddabing, baddaboom, everything changes!!! I will now cease-and-desist
Azimuth
Well-Known Member
Hi-Sorry, the subwoofer idea went under the radar. I’m interested! My Paradigms are the first 7se. Here is the original brochure http://capkun.ca/sundry/paradigm579se.pdf. I also have a pair of 5se I bought new. I’m in Canada. Do you have a reasonably inexpensive suggestion of what to buy that’s fairly easy to find? Thanks.Azi, you don't seem to be considering a subwoofer? Several, myself included, have mentioned this but it seems to have escaped your radar. Your 'Digms are pretty dang nice speakers (if they are the MK 3 especially) and a sub (or two) would change things like you might not even imagine. Have you ever had a sub? Have you mated one with the Digms?
Can you tell us more about the Paradigms? I see that there is a 7se MK 2 (and MK 1) that is a bookshelf, while the 7se MK 3 is a floor stander which would generate a bit more bass one would think. Which do you have? In any case, my humble opinion is that with a sub, the whole system will be dramatically influenced in a very positive way. Just sayin' amigo. What part of the world do you live in? So, maybe you know someone that can bring one over for you to listen to and see for yourself. It doesn't have to be a huge one either, just enough to pick up the slack on the very, very low frequencies and baddabing, baddaboom, everything changes!!! I will now cease-and-desist
Azimuth
Well-Known Member
Also, I don’t have a big room. Maybe 12 X 12, but used as a TV room with bookshelves, furniture, etc.Azi, you don't seem to be considering a subwoofer? Several, myself included, have mentioned this but it seems to have escaped your radar. Your 'Digms are pretty dang nice speakers (if they are the MK 3 especially) and a sub (or two) would change things like you might not even imagine. Have you ever had a sub? Have you mated one with the Digms?
Can you tell us more about the Paradigms? I see that there is a 7se MK 2 (and MK 1) that is a bookshelf, while the 7se MK 3 is a floor stander which would generate a bit more bass one would think. Which do you have? In any case, my humble opinion is that with a sub, the whole system will be dramatically influenced in a very positive way. Just sayin' amigo. What part of the world do you live in? So, maybe you know someone that can bring one over for you to listen to and see for yourself. It doesn't have to be a huge one either, just enough to pick up the slack on the very, very low frequencies and baddabing, baddaboom, everything changes!!! I will now cease-and-desist
now see, you're looking for stand mount speakers and referring to them as bookshelf, this is why so many are confused by what a bookshelf speaker actually is, and it's definitely not the small monitors of today so many think they are.
there's another thread just started on large bookshelf speakers and many are confused by how big they actually are.
For modern standmount with impressive bass I highly recommend a pair of Jamo C103's. These retailed for $1800 and worth every penny, but due to some crazy Amazon sales during closeout many were picked up by flippers with some still available on eBay.
The model on eBay are the high gloss black, the mahogany veneer are kind of rare. At 30lbs each with a 7" mid/bass these are bigger than they look. Last time I looked he was asking $425, sale mentioned offers accepted.
Dayton Audio Sub1200 from Parts Express at $150/each are a steal. Added as stands connected in stereo for monitors with 25hz capability real giant killer combo.
Also make great front mains for multi-channel.
Azimuth
Well-Known Member
Thanks. People use the term “bookshelf” often, usually to mean anything that isn’t a tower. This is helpful.
The 12x12 room isn't great, but can be workable. If you start to read much about acoustics, you will find that cubes, or rooms with identical width and lengths, are the least desirable spaces for sound as they tend to create "standing waves," which means frequencies will be cancelled by reflections resulting in lost sound. If you have some stuff in there, like you have, it will likely help to a degree (furniture, bookshelves, pictures, draperies etc. etc.). I really don't mean to confuse things here, but you probably get the idea.
Given your Yamaha receiver does not have any pre-outs, only speaker outputs, you will need a subwoofer that has this type of input.....a "speaker level" input, sometimes also called a "high level" input.
I'd give Grenades a thumbs-up for his Dayton Audio recommendation and these DO have the speaker-level inputs! Although I have not heard this product personally, I do know a few folks who have them and they really like them. Also, Grenades' recommendation would carry some weight with me.....Here's what we're talking about:
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1049/sub-1000-10-100-watt-powered-subwoofer
This would be a terrific start to transform what you've been hearing with your system so far. Careful though, it takes some messing with things to get it set up properly. When you connect the sub to your speaker outputs on the rear of your Yamaha, you will be raising and lowering the signal that goes to the sub with your volume control, unlike when you use a low level output (line level) where the volume control on the rear of the sub controls the volume of the sub and that's it. With speaker level inputs, you run the wires that are now going from your Yamaha speaker outputs to the Paradigms to the sub spearker level inputs first, and then from the sub speaker level outputs over to your Paradigms. Then there is the matter of having the sub volume set to the correct level so that you can have your Paradigms at the volume you want them to be with the sub being perfectly blended in, without providing too much bass (which you will notice as "boomy" very likely) or too little.
Not to worry, it's kind of fun (for me, anyhow) to get it set up properly and once you do, you will not likely have to do very much afterwards aside from perhaps walking over to the sub and tweaking it up a tad, or down, whichever is necessary for an album that is recorded particularly bass-heavy, or conversely, bass-light.
Besides first paying attention to the room treatments, (e.g. if you have a large screen tv, or a lot of windows i.e. glass, make covers or get shades, preferably cellular ones to reduce reflections that can contribute to standing wave problems), and then to establish the most ideal listening position (this simply CANNOT be emphasized enough and makes a tremendous difference) where the sound-stage really opens up and you feel like you're sitting front row, center, the sub would be my next move and then see how things sound before doing much else.
Hope this wasn't too much information amigo....just trying to move you along a bit towards your own slice of musical nirvana!
PS - Placement of the sub, while not overly critical, is important and you will need to move it around a bit to get optimal results. Generally speaking, close to a corner will give stronger bass response and I would recommend, if possible, to start there......
Given your Yamaha receiver does not have any pre-outs, only speaker outputs, you will need a subwoofer that has this type of input.....a "speaker level" input, sometimes also called a "high level" input.
I'd give Grenades a thumbs-up for his Dayton Audio recommendation and these DO have the speaker-level inputs! Although I have not heard this product personally, I do know a few folks who have them and they really like them. Also, Grenades' recommendation would carry some weight with me.....Here's what we're talking about:
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1049/sub-1000-10-100-watt-powered-subwoofer
This would be a terrific start to transform what you've been hearing with your system so far. Careful though, it takes some messing with things to get it set up properly. When you connect the sub to your speaker outputs on the rear of your Yamaha, you will be raising and lowering the signal that goes to the sub with your volume control, unlike when you use a low level output (line level) where the volume control on the rear of the sub controls the volume of the sub and that's it. With speaker level inputs, you run the wires that are now going from your Yamaha speaker outputs to the Paradigms to the sub spearker level inputs first, and then from the sub speaker level outputs over to your Paradigms. Then there is the matter of having the sub volume set to the correct level so that you can have your Paradigms at the volume you want them to be with the sub being perfectly blended in, without providing too much bass (which you will notice as "boomy" very likely) or too little.
Not to worry, it's kind of fun (for me, anyhow) to get it set up properly and once you do, you will not likely have to do very much afterwards aside from perhaps walking over to the sub and tweaking it up a tad, or down, whichever is necessary for an album that is recorded particularly bass-heavy, or conversely, bass-light.
Besides first paying attention to the room treatments, (e.g. if you have a large screen tv, or a lot of windows i.e. glass, make covers or get shades, preferably cellular ones to reduce reflections that can contribute to standing wave problems), and then to establish the most ideal listening position (this simply CANNOT be emphasized enough and makes a tremendous difference) where the sound-stage really opens up and you feel like you're sitting front row, center, the sub would be my next move and then see how things sound before doing much else.
Hope this wasn't too much information amigo....just trying to move you along a bit towards your own slice of musical nirvana!
PS - Placement of the sub, while not overly critical, is important and you will need to move it around a bit to get optimal results. Generally speaking, close to a corner will give stronger bass response and I would recommend, if possible, to start there......
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Good tip, Grenades! Although, I think they are closer to $230 from the Dayton site (looks like about $180 from Amazon and FREE DELIVERY!!!) now but still a very worthy contender for the OP to start with.....
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Where in Canada?
markmcmuz
Well-Known Member
Was not comparing anything. Just recounting a personal experience. When faced with updating my system (this is the theme of this discussion right?) I considered buying a $1000 turntable and a $200 to $500 cartridge. Instead I re-furbed my SL-Q2 and bought a $300 Audio Technica cartridge instead. IOW you can do many things to upgrade/change your system.You can't really compare a $1,000 cartridge against a low end AT cartridge and Technics table. Apples and logs...
See my post about apples and logs. You're trying to compare some low end Technics gear and an AT cartridge against a $1,000 cartridge. Not sure how that works out. I passed on the Maserati and bought a Chevy. Saved myself a bunch of money.
Azimuth
Well-Known Member
Ontario.
Azimuth
Well-Known Member
The 12x12 room isn't great, but can be workable. If you start to read much about acoustics, you will find that cubes, or rooms with identical width and lengths, are the least desirable spaces for sound as they tend to create "standing waves," which means frequencies will be cancelled by reflections resulting in lost sound. If you have some stuff in there, like you have, it will likely help to a degree (furniture, bookshelves, pictures, draperies etc. etc.). I really don't mean to confuse things here, but you probably get the idea.
Given your Yamaha receiver does not have any pre-outs, only speaker outputs, you will need a subwoofer that has this type of input.....a "speaker level" input, sometimes also called a "high level" input.
I'd give Grenades a thumbs-up for his Dayton Audio recommendation and these DO have the speaker-level inputs! Although I have not heard this product personally, I do know a few folks who have them and they really like them. Also, Grenades' recommendation would carry some weight with me.....Here's what we're talking about:
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1049/sub-1000-10-100-watt-powered-subwoofer
This would be a terrific start to transform what you've been hearing with your system so far. Careful though, it takes some messing with things to get it set up properly. When you connect the sub to your speaker outputs on the rear of your Yamaha, you will be raising and lowering the signal that goes to the sub with your volume control, unlike when you use a low level output (line level) where the volume control on the rear of the sub controls the volume of the sub and that's it. With speaker level inputs, you run the wires that are now going from your Yamaha speaker outputs to the Paradigms to the sub spearker level inputs first, and then from the sub speaker level outputs over to your Paradigms. Then there is the matter of having the sub volume set to the correct level so that you can have your Paradigms at the volume you want them to be with the sub being perfectly blended in, without providing too much bass (which you will notice as "boomy" very likely) or too little.
Not to worry, it's kind of fun (for me, anyhow) to get it set up properly and once you do, you will not likely have to do very much afterwards aside from perhaps walking over to the sub and tweaking it up a tad, or down, whichever is necessary for an album that is recorded particularly bass-heavy, or conversely, bass-light.
Besides first paying attention to the room treatments, (e.g. if you have a large screen tv, or a lot of windows i.e. glass, make covers or get shades, preferably cellular ones to reduce reflections that can contribute to standing wave problems), and then to establish the most ideal listening position (this simply CANNOT be emphasized enough and makes a tremendous difference) where the sound-stage really opens up and you feel like you're sitting front row, center, the sub would be my next move and then see how things sound before doing much else.
Hope this wasn't too much information amigo....just trying to move you along a bit towards your own slice of musical nirvana!
PS - Placement of the sub, while not overly critical, is important and you will need to move it around a bit to get optimal results. Generally speaking, close to a corner will give stronger bass response and I would recommend, if possible, to start there......