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Am I hopelessly dated with my gear? Upgrades?

Fishead said: ↑
The 12x12 room isn't great, but can be workable. If you start to read much about acoustics, you will find that cubes, or rooms with identical width and lengths, are the least desirable spaces for sound as they tend to create "standing waves," which means frequencies will be cancelled by reflections resulting in lost sound. If you have some stuff in there, like you have, it will likely help to a degree (furniture, bookshelves, pictures, draperies etc. etc.). I really don't mean to confuse things here, but you probably get the idea.

Given your Yamaha receiver does not have any pre-outs, only speaker outputs, you will need a subwoofer that has this type of input.....a "speaker level" input, sometimes also called a "high level" input.

I'd give Grenades a thumbs-up for his Dayton Audio recommendation and these DO have the speaker-level inputs! Although I have not heard this product personally, I do know a few folks who have them and they really like them. Also, Grenades' recommendation would carry some weight with me.....Here's what we're talking about:
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Good tip, Grenades! Although, I think they are closer to $230 from the Dayton site (looks like about $180 from Amazon and FREE DELIVERY!!!) now but still a very worthy contender for the OP to start with.....
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Good tip, Grenades! Although, I think they are closer to $230 from the Dayton site (looks like about $180 from Amazon and FREE DELIVERY!!!) now but still a very worthy contender for the OP to start with.....
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Where in Canada?


https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1049/sub-1000-10-100-watt-powered-subwoofer

This would be a terrific start to transform what you've been hearing with your system so far. Careful though, it takes some messing with things to get it set up properly. When you connect the sub to your speaker outputs on the rear of your Yamaha, you will be raising and lowering the signal that goes to the sub with your volume control, unlike when you use a low level output (line level) where the volume control on the rear of the sub controls the volume of the sub and that's it. With speaker level inputs, you run the wires that are now going from your Yamaha speaker outputs to the Paradigms to the sub spearker level inputs first, and then from the sub speaker level outputs over to your Paradigms. Then there is the matter of having the sub volume set to the correct level so that you can have your Paradigms at the volume you want them to be with the sub being perfectly blended in, without providing too much bass (which you will notice as "boomy" very likely) or too little.

Not to worry, it's kind of fun (for me, anyhow) to get it set up properly and once you do, you will not likely have to do very much afterwards aside from perhaps walking over to the sub and tweaking it up a tad, or down, whichever is necessary for an album that is recorded particularly bass-heavy, or conversely, bass-light.

Besides first paying attention to the room treatments, (e.g. if you have a large screen tv, or a lot of windows i.e. glass, make covers or get shades, preferably cellular ones to reduce reflections that can contribute to standing wave problems), and then to establish the most ideal listening position (this simply CANNOT be emphasized enough and makes a tremendous difference) where the sound-stage really opens up and you feel like you're sitting front row, center, the sub would be my next move and then see how things sound before doing much else.

Hope this wasn't too much information amigo....just trying to move you along a bit towards your own slice of musical nirvana! :bigok:

PS - Placement of the sub, while not overly critical, is important and you will need to move it around a bit to get optimal results. Generally speaking, close to a corner will give stronger bass response and I would recommend, if possible, to start there......

Lost of quotes and nothing posted... confusing. :dunno:
 
Good tip, Grenades! Although, I think they are closer to $230 from the Dayton site (looks like about $180 from Amazon and FREE DELIVERY!!!) now but still a very worthy contender for the OP to start with.....

ya, just checked Parts Express, I see the pandemic has hit here as well with price increases. It wasn't long ago the Sub 1200 was $148, i see its now $179 and change, and to think I paid $92 for each of mine in 2012:biggrin:

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The Dayton 1200 is available for $334 Canadian. The 1000 is unavailable, at least on Amazon. This one is $194. Thoughts?
https://www.amazon.ca/Elac-SUB1010-...db8be&pd_rd_wg=INhCQ&pd_rd_i=B07WHTXFWV&psc=1

The Elac has roughly half the power of the Dayton (60w rms vs. 120w rms) but that isn't my biggest concern......the Elac can only reach down to 38hz, whereas the Dayton manages, at least on paper, 25hz. That's a pretty big difference. I wonder if you might not be able to find the Dayton elsewhere.....do some digging on that is what I'd do.

For instance, Parts Express ships to Canada but I'm not sure of how pricey that is. You can see here:

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1200-12-120-Watt-Powered-Subwoofer-300-629
 
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What about the ELAC?

The Elac has roughly half the power of the Dayton (60w rms vs. 120w rms) but that isn't my biggest concern......the Elac can only reach down to 38hz, whereas the Dayton manages, at least on paper, 25hz. That's a pretty big difference. I wonder if you might not be able to find the Dayton elsewhere.....do some digging on that is what I'd do.
 
$180US = $227CAD according to today's conversion rate.....not sure why that would be different on Amazon but maybe others who know more about this can chime in. I would guess that there may be some customs/tariffs involved??? Don't really know for sure though....
 
The Elac has roughly half the power of the Dayton (60w rms vs. 120w rms) but that isn't my biggest concern......the Elac can only reach down to 38hz, whereas the Dayton manages, at least on paper, 25hz. That's a pretty big difference. I wonder if you might not be able to find the Dayton elsewhere.....do some digging on that is what I'd do.

For instance, Parts Express ships to Canada but I'm not sure of how pricey that is. You can see here:

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1200-12-120-Watt-Powered-Subwoofer-300-629

The Elac is 120 Watts.
https://www.amazon.ca/Elac-SUB1010-...633303107&sprefix=120+watt+sub,aps,224&sr=8-1
 
Based on your description you listen mostly in an analog world so your gear's place in that world is relatively close to the same position it held at the time it was brand new.

Most of what you would get in newer gear is primarily access to the digital world such as CD playback or streaming. Access to much of that world can be had without abandoning your Yamaha by using an outboard DAC and whatever digital sources interest you. However if your primary music source is your turntable and you like everything else then I think you are fine. A separate phono preamp might be an upgrade over the internal one in the Yamaha but that is just speculation since I am not familiar with it.

The other thing more modern gear can give you is more power at a much lower price in the past and with a much smaller footprint. That is primarily being achieved because Class D amplifier technology has improved greatly and is being used by budget manufacturers as well as some higher end manufacturers. However since you like your current speakers then I don't see you have a need for more power.

Since music is mixed "hotter" today than probably even when your Yamaha was new then along with all of the other reasons already listed you should consider a good subwoofer that is more designed to be used for music playback rather than home theater use.

Ultimately the purpose of your gear is provide you a listening experience that you enjoy. If you have already achieved that purpose then you just need to sit back in your listening chair and enjoy the music and not worry about your system.
 
Haven't heard either, but they have good input flexibility and the usual controls. Interesting that the higher model is cheaper. IME stereo subs are a definite step up over one trying to do both channels.

If you have the room, 4 woofers are even better. Really fills the room, even at low volumes. Helps eliminate some of the directional "pea-shooter" effect. :thumbsup:
 
Based on your description you listen mostly in an analog world so your gear's place in that world is relatively close to the same position it held at the time it was brand new.

Most of what you would get in newer gear is primarily access to the digital world such as CD playback or streaming. Access to much of that world can be had without abandoning your Yamaha by using an outboard DAC and whatever digital sources interest you. However if your primary music source is your turntable and you like everything else then I think you are fine. A separate phono preamp might be an upgrade over the internal one in the Yamaha but that is just speculation since I am not familiar with it.

The other thing more modern gear can give you is more power at a much lower price in the past and with a much smaller footprint. That is primarily being achieved because Class D amplifier technology has improved greatly and is being used by budget manufacturers as well as some higher end manufacturers. However since you like your current speakers then I don't see you have a need for more power.

Since music is mixed "hotter" today than probably even when your Yamaha was new then along with all of the other reasons already listed you should consider a good subwoofer that is more designed to be used for music playback rather than home theater use.

Ultimately the purpose of your gear is provide you a listening experience that you enjoy. If you have already achieved that purpose then you just need to sit back in your listening chair and enjoy the music and not worry about your system.

I listen to CDs and my iPods. Yes, I’m behind the times. My CD collection has been uploaded to iPods, but I use CDs when I can. And vinyl.
 
Its a shame Stanton and Shure abandoned the LP market just as it was making a return. Technics got the message, but not Shure or Stanton. I was kind of forced into Dynavector after I trashed my last factory stylus for my Stanton in 08. A friend got me hooked on Dynavector, which aren't cheap but they sound great, work well with TT's I have, and thats all that is important. You just have to make the decision if the investment somehow makes since. I had a bad history with Ortofon in the 70's an 80's so unwilling to try them again. probably a mistake on my part. But thats where I would start now if I were starting all over and just getting into collecting records. Some of their MM cartridges are real winners and built to much higher standards it seems today whether at the bottom of the ladder or in the middle or top. It would be great fun again to have a new Stanton CS 1000 or a famous Grace F9E, probably the best MM cartridge at the time of production. But like everything the prices would be 7 to 10 times higher.
 
Its a shame Stanton and Shure abandoned the LP market just as it was making a return. Technics got the message, but not Shure or Stanton. I was kind of forced into Dynavector after I trashed my last factory stylus for my Stanton in 08. A friend got me hooked on Dynavector, which aren't cheap but they sound great, work well with TT's I have, and thats all that is important. You just have to make the decision if the investment somehow makes since. I had a bad history with Ortofon in the 70's an 80's so unwilling to try them again. probably a mistake on my part. But thats where I would start now if I were starting all over and just getting into collecting records. Some of their MM cartridges are real winners and built to much higher standards it seems today whether at the bottom of the ladder or in the middle or top. It would be great fun again to have a new Stanton CS 1000 or a famous Grace F9E, probably the best MM cartridge at the time of production. But like everything the prices would be 7 to 10 times higher.

nothing wrong with the earlier F-8 line either :biggrin:

especially if you get them NOS, I know my Well Tempered Lab Turntable sure likes them, along with my Grace G707 arm on "The Rock".

NOS Grace F-8C Custom
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NOS Grace F-8L10' Advanced Luminal Trace 10th anniversary edition cartridge and stylus.
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Nothing wrong with the F8… but the 9 is in a different league and my favorite MM cartridge. The nice thing is that there are now options out there for replacement stylus as well as re-tipping options. The only downside is that the price of the 9 has far outpaced the increase for the 8’making it an expensive option these days.
 
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