Amp/Receiver for B&W Matrix 803

[c n]

I purchased a set of B&W Matrix 803 loudspeakers. I plan to test this out for my home theatre stereo system and also my vinyl setup, but my default will be to use these for vinyl unless I can't live without them for home theatre.

My question is: Do I absolutely need a dedicated amp, or will my existing receivers on their own do fine? If I do need an amp, can anyone make a recommendation, preferably under $300 if that's possible? I am willing to buy used online. I prefer more vintage, wood-tone cabinets.

Current setups:

Vinyl:
Yamaha CR-450 Receiver
Fluance Turntable

Home theatre:
I use a Left, Right, and Center speaker only
Denon AVR-S270BT 5.1 Channel Receiver
Currently using a KEF Q650c center channel and KEF Q150s for L/R. If I use the 803s for my home theatre setup, the Q150s will transition to become my vinyl speakers.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Dswankey]

I purchased a set of B&W Matrix 803 loudspeakers....my default will be to use these for vinyl

My question is: Do I absolutely need a dedicated amp, or will my existing receivers on their own do fine?

When you say dedicated "amp" are you talking Integrated? or Power & Pre? The reason I ask is "preferably under $300...vintage" isn't going to get you much.

If it were me I would research the B&W's power handling & sensitivity and then go from there

 

[c n]

When you say dedicated "amp" are you talking Integrated? or Power & Pre? The reason I ask is "preferably under $300...vintage" isn't going to get you much.

If it were me I would research the B&W's power handling & sensitivity and then go from there

Thank you for your reply. I'll be honest - I'm pretty new to this stuff and I am not super familiar with the terminology you used. By "integrated" do you mean a receiver that has an amp integrated into it? If so, that is what I assumed I was looking for, but if a different solution is more standard for big speakers like this, I'm open to it. These are much larger speakers than I have ever owned.

I have only ever used speakers connected to a plain jane receiver before. My understanding is that a receiver has an amp built into it. But when researching the B&W Matrix 803s, I saw a couple threads where people said they needed a dedicated amp. I have been operating under the assumption that they meant I would need an amp in addition to my receiver.

I know that my budget isn't high - and I don't need the extra gear to be audiophile worthy - but I do want it to be capable of making the speakers sound as they are supposed to. But if it's the case that $300 simply won't get me what I need - I'm open to that and can adjust my budget accordingly. I used that as my starting point because I believe it's a little more than I paid for my Yamaha CR-450.

 

[opnly bafld]

No preout on the Denon or Yamaha.

Sound will come out of the speakers, but they won't sound like they were designed to without a very good amplifier.

Receiver = preamp + amplifier + tuner
Integrated = preamp + amplifier
Amplifier = amplifier (needs a preamp to control it).

 

[c n]

No preout on the Denon or Yamaha.

Sound will come out of the speakers, but they won't sound like they were designed to without a very good amplifier.

Receiver = preamp + amplifier + tuner
Integrated = preamp + amplifier
Amplifier = amplifier (needs a preamp to control it).

Got it. So I need a very good amplifier. Does it matter if I achieve that by getting a standalone amplifier, or an integrated preamp + amplifier, or a receiver?

I can't find technical documentation for the series 1, but the manual for the series 2 says to find an amplifier with 50 to 250 watt output into 4 ohms.

Does that mean the only thing I need to do is research and find an amp that's well regarded and has at least 50 watts?

And to Dswankey's comment about $300 not getting me much -- if it matters it doesn't need to be vintage. I'm more concerned with affordability than year of manufacture.

 

[painttoad]

find an amp that's well regarded and has at least 50 watts?

how loud do you listen?

do you EVER crank it up?

i'd look for the high side, not the low side.

i don't keep up with modern gear but for matrix 803 series 2, something along the lines of a rotel rb-1080(200wpc@8ohms and 4 ohm stable) then you need a preamp.

i would expect the series one to be along the same lines. i think it only has 1 woofer instead of 2

 

[opnly bafld]

Comments on them I found from 2 experienced users.

"....very revealing of the amplifier though. Much more demanding than the numbers appear to say."

"require top-flight, high-power solid-state amplification"



A well respected tech (works on stereo equipment) I know had a pair and when I saw them I was a bit surprised because as I mentioned to him every time I heard a pair they didn't sound balanced to me, he said "that's because you didn't hear them with the right amplifier".

I'm not aware of any receiver that will do them justice and not very many integrateds will IMO.

 

[c n]

how loud do you listen?

do you EVER crank it up?

i'd look for the high side, not the low side.

i don't keep up with modern gear but for matrix 803 series 2, something along the lines of a rotel rb-1080(200wpc@8ohms and 4 ohm stable) then you need a preamp.

i would expect the series one to be along the same lines. i think it only has 1 woofer instead of 2

No, I don't really ever crank it up, but I am in a new house and the speakers are in a big, open air room with what I guess is technically called "cathedral ceilings" so I presume that I need a bit more power to fill the room. I started looking for new speakers when I realized that my Q150s were no longer powerful enough for my home theatre setup in this new home. We now have to turn the receiver up to 65-70 (out of 100) to be able to hear well from a standard couch distance away. In my prior home we were turning the same system to 45-55. My current speakers for vinyl are even smaller, so I knew I was going to need something bigger.

PS I am not a millionaire despite the fact that I made a post about a stupidly expensive speaker system and now I'm talking about my cathedral ceilings

Comments on them I found from 2 experienced users.

"....very revealing of the amplifier though. Much more demanding than the numbers appear to say."

"require top-flight, high-power solid-state amplification"



A well respected tech (works on stereo equipment) I know had a pair and when I saw them I was a bit surprised because as I mentioned to him every time I heard a pair they didn't sound balanced to me, he said "that's because you didn't hear them with the right amplifier".

I'm not aware of any receiver that will do them justice and not very many integrateds will IMO.

So even something more expensive like a Yamaha a-s501 or even a-s701 will be inadequate?

 

[opnly bafld]

So even something more expensive like a Yamaha a-s501 or even a-s701 will be inadequate?

IMO yes, your opinion/idea of adequate might be different.
They are not really that expensive and are at the lower end of Yamaha's line.

I would only use a good separate power amplifier because I have heard the difference they can make on many speakers. YMMV, IMO/E, etc.
Power supply quality and heat dissipation are two big things that sets good power amplifiers apart.

 

[c n]

What about something like the Yamaha MX-830? There's an affordable one in my area. Seems like it will have more than enough power. Is it a good separate power amp?

 

[painttoad]

What about something like the Yamaha MX-830? There's an affordable one in my area. Seems like it will have more than enough power. Is it a good separate power amp?

it's 35 years old. it might not need it but be prepared to have it serviced. at least bench tested and glue cleaned up and given a clean bill of health but yeah, that amp should be a nice pairing for the speakers.

 

[opnly bafld]

Keep in mind you also need something to control volume.
You can use one of your other pieces for source like vinyl through the Yamaha receiver into a basic linestage preamp into the power amp or there are HTR's that have preout for the front L & R that may work for you and simplify things a bit.

These new speakers are going to end up costing a lot more.

 

[c n]

Keep in mind you also need something to control volume.
You can use one of your other pieces for source like vinyl through the Yamaha receiver into a basic linestage preamp into the power amp or there are HTR's that have preout for the front L & R that may work for you and simplify things a bit.

These new speakers are going to end up costing a lot more.

You're right - seems like I'm in for more than I realized. If this is going to end up costing more than I presumed, I guess I should choose up front if I'll be using these for vinyl or home theatre. Is there any reason speakers like these are best suited for one or the other?

Additionally, will I damage anything in the speaker if I hook them up to my current, underpowered Yamaha CR-450 Receiver just to test them and make sure they are both playing audio? It would sure be a bummer to invest a whole bunch more money just to find out the speakers are shot. They look like they are in great condition but I have not had them hooked up or played them.

 

[painttoad]

Additionally, will I damage anything in the speaker if I hook them up to my current, underpowered Yamaha CR-450 Receiver just to test them and make sure they are both playing audio?

you'd be ok doing this. it's a good idea if you do not know if they work.. get the tube from a roll of paper towels and hold to your ear and hover over each driver to make sure each is working.

 

[opnly bafld]

There are more expensive speakers that are an easy load and others that are not, the "specs" usually don't tell the whole story.
I think more expensive brands and models assume people will normally use equally expensive amplification with these speakers.
Most will work okay and not cause any risk to other equipment, but may overheat some budget amplifiers and may over time cause problems.

 

[rickb119]

As mentioned, you're going to need either a volume control or a preamp with the MX-830. For the turntable, you will also need a phono preamp. Since the record player puts out a very low signal, it needs to be bumped up before going into either the volume control or a regular preamp. Some preamps do have a phono input, but they are usually more expensive than those without one.

Both Schiit Audio and Fosi Audio make relatively inexpensive phono preamps. I have no experience with either, so I'll leave it to others to comment. Schiit also makes a very inexpensive volume control. However, it does not have a remote, which I would want with the HT system. The Fosi P4 pre does have a remote, but is a bit more $. I have a P4, and like it a lot.

Another option would be to look for an upper end (100w+), pre-HDMI AVR. I had a Yamaha R-V1105 that served me well for both HT and 2 channel audio. Granted, it doesn't have quite the SQ of a stand alone amp, but for what it is, it sounded very good. And, can be found cheap on CL/FB. If you do go this route, make sure it has a phono input. Not all do. With a limited budget, this is the way I'd go, and then save up for something better in the future.

 

[painttoad]

i would personally stay away from avrs. take that yamaha that was mentioned, it can handle 4 ohms but you have to flip a switch on the back. that lowers the rail voltage to protect the amp/power supply. now your 100 watt @ 8 ohm receiver no longer pushes 100 watts @ 8 ohm because you strangled the power supply to protect it because it is weak.

leave the switch at 8 ohm and risk damaging the amp(or tweeters) on transients. even tho it SHOULD be ok, it is not always the case. receiver probably has a thermal fuse in the transformer. get it too hot. boom. your receiver becomes boat anchor.

bottom line. b&w requires current. that does not come cheap. of course there is a limit but basically, the more power you give them, the better they sound.

large rooms require large power. add a few drinks....well, most of us know the relation to adult beverages and volume control.

i always look at worst case scenario. what someone says on the internet and does in real life are rarely the same.

if you can't afford to or don't want to pony up and buy a good amp/preamp then you can sell the b&w's. make some good coin and buy something more suited to you. but we can't talk value in this thread so don't ask.

 

[opnly bafld]

An AVR with preamp outputs for front L&R could work with a separate power amp and then he would still have his center channel.

 

[rickb119]

i would personally stay away from avrs. take that yamaha that was mentioned, it can handle 4 ohms but you have to flip a switch on the back. that lowers the rail voltage to protect the amp/power supply. now your 100 watt @ 8 ohm receiver no longer pushes 100 watts @ 8 ohm because you strangled the power supply to protect it because it is weak.

leave the switch at 8 ohm and risk damaging the amp(or tweeters) on transients. even tho it SHOULD be ok, it is not always the case. receiver probably has a thermal fuse in the transformer. get it too hot. boom. your receiver becomes boat anchor.

bottom line. b&w requires current. that does not come cheap. of course there is a limit but basically, the more power you give them, the better they sound.

large rooms require large power. add a few drinks....well, most of us know the relation to adult beverages and volume control.

i always look at worst case scenario. what someone says on the internet and does in real life are rarely the same.

if you can't afford to or don't want to pony up and buy a good amp/preamp then you can sell the b&w's. make some good coin and buy something more suited to you. but we can't talk value in this thread so don't ask.

I never knew that about the 1105. I just figured that for short money, he could get a little more power than his current amp puts out; with the idea, of course, of saving for something better.

 

[painttoad]

An AVR with preamp outputs for front L&R could work with a separate power amp and then he would still have his center channel.

i think he has a few things to think about.

he already has a working 3 channel system that he should just leave as is(even if he has to turn it up louder than he used to) and buy an amp and preamp and use it and the b&w for vinyl.

it doesn't make any sense to separate 3 fairly voiced matched speakers to make an inferior mismatched system and then use lesser speakers for vinyl than ones that are better suited for vinyl. it's all backwards in my eyes.