I just saw this thread after buying some AMT 1Bs today. No Heils, blown woofers but for $100 i couldnt pass them up. Fortunately i also purchased some AMT-1b bookshelves a few weeks ago. I grew up in Sacramento and my dad used to have a bunch of ESS models and it was time to have some of my own. I decided to take the heils out of the bookshelves and into the pyramids. I loved reading your journey through the rebuild. I dont know the first thing when it cones to crossovers and caps (maybe just send it to a local repair guy?) I also need some new woofers for them. I was going to get get the ESS replacements, but i was told that there maybe be better woofers for these. At some point i would love to do a rebuild but right now i just want them to sound as good as they can. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -- John.
Another ESS AMT-1a pyramid rebuild thread
- Thread starter 13stoploss
- Start date
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
I use a set of [donated] Heil drivers that wonderfully augment my Pioneer speakers. I expected more from the Heils. when I first got them. They just were not right. Then I put in a set of new diaphrams. Easy one-minute job. Problem solved. Whatever replacement drivers [woofers and Heils],you choose, be certain that you either adapt the crossover to suit, or use the right driver for that model system. Crossover frequency may change dramatically if the crossover is connected to an after-market driver. So be wary when you change those woofers.
13stoploss
Active Member
Welcome, John. I'm just a young fool who fell in love with my old man's speakers. Had to have my own.
Personally, I'd recommend stock drivers. The new ones are slightly "improved" in that they're easier to drive and play plenty low. I've heard both and they sound identical to me. I also like the black frame ring better... As for the crossovers, don't worry about knowing. Knowing is something you learn. In the meantime, just plug and play. Requires a soldering iron, some solder, some hot glue, and minimal investment on Dayton capacitors at Parts Express. -jason
TomBig58
Super Member
How did I miss this thread when I researched for the 1b bookshelfs purchase a month ago?
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....bookshelf-quartet-score.783992/#post-10784472
I'm still listening to the one pair and the other is stored away. All as of yet untouched.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....bookshelf-quartet-score.783992/#post-10784472
I'm still listening to the one pair and the other is stored away. All as of yet untouched.
essNeff
Active Member
I have a one ESS 12' 4 Ohm Woofer taking up space. I'll let it go cheap if you are interested.
Attachments
Fun reading. I finished up my custom design DEC-AMT28 build a few years ago and always felt there was a midrange dip with the original 12". You get use to it over time if you keep listening. I had a set of the original AMT 1Cs, and AMT Monitors later on too. They all sounded good back in the day. 
Fast forward 30 years and I built a set. This time around I went with dual 8" woofers instead of a single 12" woofer paired with the Great AMT Heil. Midrange is great. Real nice in fact.
DEC-AMT28 with dual 8s.
I've never actually tried the NEW version of the ESS 12" woofer, so that is good to know it's a little better than the original woofers as reported by 13stoploss. Like Johnyoz31, I grew up in Sacramento too, worked at ESS in the early 80s, on the assembly line for a year or so going into college. I remember always wondering how the big 12 could be replaced like the AMT3s had with dual 10s, and a midrange. I gather since then, many have rebuilt their AMT3s with different drives, including replacing the midrange drive, but it was hard to get it right.
Wondering if anyone here tried pairing the great AMT with a faster and more efficient 12" woofer like an Eminence ???. I remember a guy here, Automojo who mentioned that once years ago about running the Eminence woofers instead. Never followed up on it, but curious now. Might be fun to try it, and I've been thinking about trying something else to see if running a big 12 could be made to work better than the original 12" setup. So far, the dual 8's with the Heil sandwiched in between has worked well with my higher power tube or solid state amp. Some times I do run a sub for 35hz and below just for grins, kind of like the Transars had. Would be interested in hearing from anyone who's tried one of the newer/faster 12" pro audio type woofers with the Great AMT. That, combined with the right subwoofer setup with pick up some of the lower end might sound pretty good too.
After I built mine, these came out from PAP, baffles speakers with a Heil in MTM configuration. I think the drivers are Eminence. Pretty cool. ESS AMT lives on!
PAP with, 15" woofers.
Eminence Alpha15a woofers
Fast forward 30 years and I built a set. This time around I went with dual 8" woofers instead of a single 12" woofer paired with the Great AMT Heil. Midrange is great. Real nice in fact.DEC-AMT28 with dual 8s.
I've never actually tried the NEW version of the ESS 12" woofer, so that is good to know it's a little better than the original woofers as reported by 13stoploss. Like Johnyoz31, I grew up in Sacramento too, worked at ESS in the early 80s, on the assembly line for a year or so going into college. I remember always wondering how the big 12 could be replaced like the AMT3s had with dual 10s, and a midrange. I gather since then, many have rebuilt their AMT3s with different drives, including replacing the midrange drive, but it was hard to get it right.
Wondering if anyone here tried pairing the great AMT with a faster and more efficient 12" woofer like an Eminence ???. I remember a guy here, Automojo who mentioned that once years ago about running the Eminence woofers instead. Never followed up on it, but curious now. Might be fun to try it, and I've been thinking about trying something else to see if running a big 12 could be made to work better than the original 12" setup. So far, the dual 8's with the Heil sandwiched in between has worked well with my higher power tube or solid state amp. Some times I do run a sub for 35hz and below just for grins, kind of like the Transars had. Would be interested in hearing from anyone who's tried one of the newer/faster 12" pro audio type woofers with the Great AMT. That, combined with the right subwoofer setup with pick up some of the lower end might sound pretty good too.
After I built mine, these came out from PAP, baffles speakers with a Heil in MTM configuration. I think the drivers are Eminence. Pretty cool. ESS AMT lives on!
PAP with, 15" woofers.
Eminence Alpha15a woofers
Last edited:
fredgarvin
Super Member
Very nice, the midrange hole was the main reason I could never like them enough to own. I always thought they were cool 'but'.Fun reading. I finished up my custom design DEC-AMT28 build a few years ago and always felt there was a midrange dip with the original 12". You get use to it over time if you keep listening. I had a set of the original AMT 1Cs, and AMT Monitors later on too. They all sounded good back in the day.
DEC-AMT28 with dual 8s.
I've never actually tried the NEW version of the ESS 12" woofer, so that is good to know it's a little better than the original woofers as reported by 13stoploss. Like Johnyoz31, I grew up in Sacramento too, worked at ESS in the early 80s, on the assembly line for a year or so going into college. I remember always wondering how the big 12 could be replaced like the AMT3s had with dual 10s, and a midrange. I gather since then, many have rebuilt their AMT3s with different drives, including replacing the midrange drive, but it was hard to get it right.
Wondering if anyone here tried pairing the great AMT with a faster and more efficient 12" woofer like an Eminence ???. I remember a guy here, Automojo who mentioned that once years ago about running the Eminence woofers instead. Never followed up on it, but curious now. Might be fun to try it, and I've been thinking about trying something else to see if running a big 12 could be made to work better than the original 12" setup. So far, the dual 8's with the Heil sandwiched in between has worked well with my higher power tube or solid state amp. Some times I do run a sub for 35hz and below just for grins, kind of like the Transars had. Would be interested in hearing from anyone who's tried one of the newer/faster 12" pro audio type woofers with the Great AMT. That, combined with the right subwoofer setup with pick up some of the lower end might sound pretty good too.
After I built mine, these came out from PAP, baffles speakers with a Heil in MTM configuration. I think the drivers are Eminence. Pretty cool. ESS AMT lives on!
PAP with, 15" woofers.
Eminence Alpha15a woofers
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
Midrange is the most important and also most difficult area to reproduce properly. This is why I fell in love with my Pioneer CS-99A so many years ago. Why ESS was hesitant to make more than one or two 3-ways is a mystery. You can't push these drivers to do what they cannot do. And to leave a hole in the sound because of that. It just isn't right.
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
I burden people regularly bitching about the fact that ESS, with a great crop of cheap midrange drivers out there, still refuses to market and sell a three-way speaker. I've been told that Ricky is not interested in it and is selling his product line just fine without a "transition" driver in any models.
Even after my offering of an artist's concept.
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
A few years back, @automojo was evangelizing the Eminence 1040 SF, which was touted as a direct replacement for OEM ESS 10" woofers, like those in the original AMT-1 (no letter designation) or the AMT-3. His present fave is an Eminence BP-102, but it's a pair of 10" woofers along with a 6" "transition" driver (midrange), so the midrange issue is a non-issue.
That being said, if you examine the specs on pro woofers, you'll find them able to reach higher than their "hi-fi" counterparts, but it comes at the cost of having to modify the original crossover and withstand a subwoofer (I agree with Automojo's general disdain for subwoofers).
@Kayo8 showed off an interesting concept in this thread in which the 12" woofer holes on a pair of AMT-1B's were filled and and the woofer replaced with a smaller one, along with a midrange driver, while retaining the passive radiator in the back. You may want to PM him and see what his impressions are after five months of listening to them.
Hey Will. Hehe, well you forgot I'm using the drivers Misco came up for me. I managed to get them to make 8. Using them sealed. Yes you right, they need a modified crossover, but they aren't bad.
I think the 1040SF's could work well in a totally sealed enclosure, with the right damping, not the ESS fully stuffed route. In fact I'm thinking the damping I'm using with the Misco woofers would be right on track with the 1040SF's, as the specs are pretty close.
I see they are still available for around $49 ea with free shipping.
For me, the totally sealed configuration works the best.
A long journey for sure, but's that's DIY hifi!!
Feel free to ask questions here, or PM.
Here might be better as others can see, and get ideas for their projects.
FIY, planning to get the side grill stuff out to you in the near future!!
I think the 1040SF's could work well in a totally sealed enclosure, with the right damping, not the ESS fully stuffed route. In fact I'm thinking the damping I'm using with the Misco woofers would be right on track with the 1040SF's, as the specs are pretty close.
I see they are still available for around $49 ea with free shipping.
For me, the totally sealed configuration works the best.
A long journey for sure, but's that's DIY hifi!!
Feel free to ask questions here, or PM.
Here might be better as others can see, and get ideas for their projects.
FIY, planning to get the side grill stuff out to you in the near future!!
Hi All, I spent a few hours at ESS. Met with the marketing guy, and spoke to Ricky on the phone. While it was fun to see a bunch of old stuff of the past, old parts, x-overs, old cabinets, even seven pairs of transars still in boxes, it was more of the same attempts at newer and smaller 2-ways. I tried pretty hard to see if I could borrow a set of parts/cabinets to do an upgrade to improve on what is there (maybe), it was a no-go attempt. They may send me some bookshelves to evaluate, but I might just do my own thing instead for obvious reasons... I guess the site visit confirmed for me is just focus on AMTs (re-looking at all brands again) and then just re-focus on figuring out how to build a much improved 2-way or 3-way in compact form for my current project, and for the future maybe looking back to a nice/larger 3-ways as many here have been working on over the past decade.
I have the ability to decide on the components, building cabinets, however my ability to truly develop a great crossover is not my in my wheelhouse right now. So, I'll study the former recommendation and now asking around to locate someone who has all the right tools and processes to develop the next-level-up first order crossover with smaller AMTs. Recently, I've have good luck with Mundorf parts in my amplifiers, also studying the more recent MA30 AMT kit from Mundorf, and while expensive it seems like an interesting kit to study and emulate for my bookshelf amt project desires. Now you guys have me wondering again about a big 3-way amt project again. I agree, a really nice three way with the right amt is the way to go too. FUN!
I have the ability to decide on the components, building cabinets, however my ability to truly develop a great crossover is not my in my wheelhouse right now. So, I'll study the former recommendation and now asking around to locate someone who has all the right tools and processes to develop the next-level-up first order crossover with smaller AMTs. Recently, I've have good luck with Mundorf parts in my amplifiers, also studying the more recent MA30 AMT kit from Mundorf, and while expensive it seems like an interesting kit to study and emulate for my bookshelf amt project desires. Now you guys have me wondering again about a big 3-way amt project again. I agree, a really nice three way with the right amt is the way to go too. FUN!
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
I'm trying to locate some picture from @essNeff. I believe his look very similar.Just dug up some old photos on that note, I think this 3-way was conceived or developed around the time when ESS was in Europe for a while. Someone had the right idea back then, but that concept apparently never made it back to the USA, I guess. Who knows.
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
One of my favorite 3-ways with a Heil to cite is the Surreal Sound Fifth Row speaker. The high-pass leg of the crossover is first order - just one capacitor. Designer Ralph Helmer claims he uses the medium heil in 8 ohms with a 6.8 uF cap. A 4 ohm Heil would use a 13.6 ohm cap (two 6.8's, a popular size, in parallel). For the Tangband midrange, it's a first order low-pass: a .15 mH ribbon coil with a 4 ohm bypass resistor paralleled to it. For the 6 woofers on the bottom, he uses the active crossover for a low pass in the amp that comes with the speakers.
It seems like an elegant solution. I only wish I could report that I've actually heard the fifth rows, but there's some happy owners at 20 - 30K a pair, so there must be something there.
I would think the only better solution would be actively crossing over with something like a MiniDSP or one of those Behringer or DBX speaker managers.
Hey Porkloin,
Super Neat! Love the size, shape, and all. I've seen that one before and always wondered what the back story was on it. I noticed it once online in a video where that speaker popped up at one on of the prior shows in the ESS booth, and was surprised to see it. Man, that's at an entirely new level from where I'm at on my complete builds. At first, I thought it was some type of Transar inspired speaker... but then I could see what looks to be downward firing woofers, correct? I want to build a really nice standard looking 3-way myself but weak spot is definitely the crossover on a good 3-way. I don't know who essNeff is here on AK. I do have an original 2241 active crossover unit but don't want more electronics in the signal on the front end. I had to get some help on the last passive 2-way crossover design after failing a few times trying. Do you know Ralph at all, and by chance is he open to working with the DIY crowd at all or retail speaker sales only?
Mac17GMB
Member
I need some help please...
I have some Original ESS AMT 1A Serial # 204 & # 473 .....and I just reformed the 12" woofers and played for a few days....all was fine. Today I notice no sound from woofer of one of my speakers....other is working awesome!
...I remove the woofer and I could not find the reason.... The speaker clip-in terminal might need replacement.....the red seemed loose. Or maybe it is a crossover issue? I am a novice ...but I have found my passion & I want to learn.....
1. What Ohm reading should I have with the woofer?
2. What Ohm signal should I have when I meter the crossover point to the woofer?
3. What reading should I have from the rear speaker initial power point...where the speaker wire is attached?
3. What might I still consider to meter or check?
Any suggestions would be sincerely appreciated.
I have some Original ESS AMT 1A Serial # 204 & # 473 .....and I just reformed the 12" woofers and played for a few days....all was fine. Today I notice no sound from woofer of one of my speakers....other is working awesome!
...I remove the woofer and I could not find the reason.... The speaker clip-in terminal might need replacement.....the red seemed loose. Or maybe it is a crossover issue? I am a novice ...but I have found my passion & I want to learn.....
1. What Ohm reading should I have with the woofer?
2. What Ohm signal should I have when I meter the crossover point to the woofer?
3. What reading should I have from the rear speaker initial power point...where the speaker wire is attached?
3. What might I still consider to meter or check?
Any suggestions would be sincerely appreciated.
