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(Another) Speaker Wire Questions

M

McInRantz

Active Member
Hey all. I am in the process of hooking up a stereo in my garage. I am, also, running new electric service and electrical drops throughout my garage. Anyway, I have a couple questions.

First, I built shelves and placed the speakers I am going to use in two corners of the garage. They are not each the same distance from where I placed the stereo. One speaker is about 50 ft away from the stereo and the other speaker is about 24 foot away.

My first question is do I have to (need to) run the same length speaker wire to each speaker? If so, do I just coil up the excess wire to the shorter run behind the speaker?

My next question is about running the wire. As I said I'm running new electric service. I'm doing it the "traditional" way and running the perimeter of the garage up high and then "dropping" down multiple new outlets. My question is whether I can run the new speaker wire ON THE OUTSIDE of the conduit without getting interference into the speaker wires? I was thinking about just running it along the outside of the conduit and then just using cable ties to secure it in order to make it neat.

I probably going to be using 14 gauge wire. The speakers I'm using are 8-ohm Realistic Optimus 1Bs. I'm following the chart on the Roger Russel website which states I can use 14 gauge wire for runs up to 80 feet ( http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm ). Does anyone disagree with that? I haven't bought the wire, yet. I'm not sure whether I'm going to buy actual speaker wire or just some 14 gauge zip cord. Any thoughts? I know this subject has been beaten to death in many, many previous threads.

Thanks
 
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There's no need for the two speakers wires being the exact same length. I wouldn't necessarily do two drastic different lengths, but in your case you're probably fine. It's a garage system, so I'd be less picky than say in my main setup.

If you do use equal lengths, you can just coil up the excess. 14 gauge should be sufficient.

You won't get interference with speaker wire. That's a much bigger issue with low level signals, like the RCA's from a cd player or whatever source and the amplifier.
 
89grand said:
There's no need for the two speakers wires being the exact same length. I wouldn't necessarily do two drastic different lengths, but in your case you're probably fine. It's a garage system, so I'd be less picky than say in my main setup.

If you do use equal lengths, you can just coil up the excess. 14 gauge should be sufficient.

You won't get interference with speaker wire. That's a much bigger issue with low level signals, like the RCA's from a cd player or whatever source and the amplifier.
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Thanks 89Grand. Thanks for answering all my questions. Since I have to buy wire anyway, and one run is 50 foot, I'll probably just buy 100 foot and and split it between the two speakers.

Any thoughts on the speaker wire or zip cord? I don't blame you if you don't want to touch that.
 
I take it you didn't pull a permit and don't need an inspection? If you do, NEC code doesn't allow low voltage wires to be attached to anything coming from the panel, be it wires or conduit.
 
For garage system I vote zip cord.

However...

There are garages and there are garage$...
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/album.php?albumid=1749

picture.php
 
Use a sufficiently heavy guage, ordinary American-made wire (higher purity levels of copper, 99.95 or 99.98 % minimum) and 14 or even 12 AWG and you should be good to go forever in that room!

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
Blanket statements are not always correct.

See Ken Boyd's post.

But in terms of the question of speaker wires picking up electrical noise...

It is true that the low impedance of the the speaker outputs may be less sensitive to RFI/EMI, that I will just call electrical noise than line level signals (higher impedance and somewhat lower levels).

Locations are different, having different types and levels of electrical noise.

Certain devices, such as residential rated florescent lamp ballasts (non-CFL) are know to be sources of electrical noise.

How this noise and other types of electrical noise may impact the operation of a piece of gear is dependent on the gear, the location and the type and amount of electrical noise.

In certain electrical noise environments, the speaker wires may act as antennae and pick up enough electrical noise to negatively affect FM reception and induce enough of a noise level into the amplifier to affect the overall operation.

The RF impedance of even the chassis ground may be higher than one might think.

The higher the impedance of the circuit, even the ground circuit (at higher frequencies), the more susceptible it may be to electrical noise.

So if speaker wire is run close to an electrical noise source, there may be some coupling and adverse issues.

Most of the time when speaker wires are run free and clear, there will not be an issue. So, run you wires and give it a try and be compliant with the NEC and local codes.

This may be what Ken is referring to.
 

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new said:
is that your garage ,if so your garage system is far superior than my main system :thmbsp: i like it,what sort of speakers are they and how big do they stand ,they look very tall and wide
mike
Click to expand...
Garage system belonging to one of our friends at the Altec User's Board.

garagealtecs_zps02cb8523.jpg
 
bowtie427ss said:
Garage system belonging to one of our friends at the Altec User's Board.

garagealtecs_zps02cb8523.jpg
Click to expand...

I would think the sound would be terrible with all the reflective surfaces. Even for a garage system. However, I do have these great speakers out in my white van I think he will like. They retail for $3500, but they're overstock, so I'll let him have them for $200. I'll even get rid of the Altecs for him in the process.:D
 
new said:
is that your garage ,if so your garage system is far superior than my main system :thmbsp: i like it,what sort of speakers are they and how big do they stand ,they look very tall and wide
mike
Click to expand...

Not yet. I am waiting my papers to come in so I fly over to Texas and get adopted as a dog to live in that garage.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I take it you didn't pull a permit and don't need an inspection? If you do, NEC code doesn't allow low voltage wires to be attached to anything coming from the panel, be it wires or conduit.
Click to expand...


Nope, didn't pull any permits. Not going to. I could easily run the new speaker wire "next to" or "near" the conduit and attach it some other way other than zip tying it to the conduit. Other than the question of whether to attach the wire to the conduit, everything else is 100% code, even above code. I just wanted to run them neatly and do it in the easiest way. I appreciate the input.
 
JBL GUY said:
Blanket statements are not always correct.

See Ken Boyd's post.

But in terms of the question of speaker wires picking up electrical noise...

It is true that the low impedance of the the speaker outputs may be less sensitive to RFI/EMI, that I will just call electrical noise than line level signals (higher impedance and somewhat lower levels).

Locations are different, having different types and levels of electrical noise.

Certain devices, such as residential rated florescent lamp ballasts (non-CFL) are know to be sources of electrical noise.

How this noise and other types of electrical noise may impact the operation of a piece of gear is dependent on the gear, the location and the type and amount of electrical noise.

In certain electrical noise environments, the speaker wires may act as antennae and pick up enough electrical noise to negatively affect FM reception and induce enough of a noise level into the amplifier to affect the overall operation.

The RF impedance of even the chassis ground may be higher than one might think.

The higher the impedance of the circuit, even the ground circuit (at higher frequencies), the more susceptible it may be to electrical noise.

So if speaker wire is run close to an electrical noise source, there may be some coupling and adverse issues.

Most of the time when speaker wires are run free and clear, there will not be an issue. So, run you wires and give it a try and be compliant with the NEC and local codes.

This may be what Ken is referring to.
Click to expand...



A lot of information here. I do have a LOT of florescent lights, 15 of them, in rows of three on my ceiling. I hope that doesn't end up posing a problem. I do know that with the cheap little radios I have been using out there that I get lousy FM reception on some channels. I always thought it was just the cheap radios.

I've also been "toying" with the idea of putting up some kind of antenna, either on the outside of the garage, or up in the attic of the garage. There's a low power FM signal from Detroit (about 50 miles from me) that I'd like to get. I can pick it up fine in my car, but it comes in very weak on my house system, and most likely will be weak or non-existent on the garage system, too.

Thanks for all the great information and the explanations.
 
Going through a box of wire and other junk in my basement, I just found 2 rolls of 100 foot Radio Shack 20 gauge speaker wire. It's old stuff. I think I bought this when I was a teenager, probably more than 30 years ago. They still have prices on them of $3.99!

Is there any chance that this wire would be sufficient for the 50 foot run to one of my speakers and the 24 foot run to the other? I know the answer is, most likely, no, but hey, it never hurts to ask since I have this wire already and its just being wasted sitting around.

If its not large enough, can I double it and use it that way? Does anyone know what the effective gauge would be by doubling it?
 
McInRantz said:
Going through a box of wire and other junk in my basement, I just found 2 rolls of 100 foot Radio Shack 20 gauge speaker wire. It's old stuff. I think I bought this when I was a teenager, probably more than 30 years ago. They still have prices on them of $3.99!

Is there any chance that this wire would be sufficient for the 50 foot run to one of my speakers and the 24 foot run to the other? I know the answer is, most likely, no, but hey, it never hurts to ask since I have this wire already and its just being wasted sitting around.

If its not large enough, can I double it and use it that way? Does anyone know what the effective gauge would be by doubling it?
Click to expand...

Well, I would not use wire that thin except for testing purposes. I am not a speaker wire extremist; I think lamp cord is sufficient for darn near anything. However, back when I was in high school, I was setting up my bedroom stereo and I used two pieces of wire that just happened to be handy; one was very thin like 24 gauge or something, and the other was much thicker. I figured who cares and hooked them up. I noticed that the volume was different for the two channels. Had to adjust the balance to make it sound right. I removed the thinner wire, made up equal-length wire for both sides from the thicker stuff, and that was the solution for me. The difference in sound went away immediately.

Since then, I have used thicker wire and equal lengths. I don't agonize over it, I just do that and I'm happy.

As to doubling the wire, no idea. If you do it, you would probably want to twist it to keep out spurious signals like they do with twisted-pair ethernet, but I really don't know if that would be necessary or not.

Lots of spooky-science experts on wire around, so I'm sure you'll get many interesting comments. I just say a) thick and b) equal length. Simple as that. But you can go nuts if you want to, the sky is definitely the limit.
 
20 gauge is way to small, particularly for that long of a run. Even if you double it, you'll still only have effectively a 17 gauge wire.

Again, go for 12 - 14 gauge.
 
If you have access to the attic and the walls are hollow, why don't you do it the right way and run the wires inside the walls and in the attic. Then buy a couple of cut out old work boxes and put them right behind where you plan on putting the speakers. You can either buy plates with RCA jacks or you can buy a cover with a hole in it and then run the wire out to your speakers. A nice job always makes the music sound much better. Hey and pull an extra wire when doing the runs, that way later if you decide you want to bi amp some future speakers, the work is already done.
 
Ken Boyd said:
If you have access to the attic and the walls are hollow, why don't you do it the right way and run the wires inside the walls and in the attic. Then buy a couple of cut out old work boxes and put them right behind where you plan on putting the speakers. You can either buy plates with RCA jacks or you can buy a cover with a hole in it and then run the wire out to your speakers. A nice job always makes the music sound much better. Hey and pull an extra wire when doing the runs, that way later if you decide you want to bi amp some future speakers, the work is already done.
Click to expand...


I'd like to be able to do that. Believe me. But I can't. My garage is built out of cement blocks.
 
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