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anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

Listening now to "I Grandi Westerns Italiani", a 70's RCA double LP set of Ennio Morricone original soundtrack music from Italian westerns, including the Clint Eastwood "Man with No Name" trilogy. Harmonica Man from "Once Upon A Time In The West" is playing. 10 album sides in, 1.3g VTF. Sounds very good, indeed.
 
Here's my "new to me" TC40 with original S44E. I always forget how nice the TC40 and 200 LTD sound.
 

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For my part, I managed to find an Empire 2000 E III diamond and two Empire 2000 E II diamonds, which are, apart from the color, exactly the same. They all sound perfectly good, and with my post-85 2000 E III diamond, I still have many hours to listen to my records! I could have still bought a 2000 E II, but given my age and wanting to remain reasonable, I stuck with these acquisitions which are more than enough for me!
 
For anyone considering the LPGear/Tunes Vivid Line for the 2000E/III, I had noticed over several hours of playing time that the very highest treble reaches such as metallic bells and cymbal splashes were being strongly recessed. This was brought home on one track from the Ennio Morricone western LPs where the chiming of a musical watch is the lead-in to the piece. With the VL stylus mounted on my 2000E/I, the chimes were nearly inaudible. I then mounted it on my 4000D/I, and the chimes were back. This leads me to believe that the stylus might be "voiced" for the earlier 66-clone 2000 series as well as the 4000Ds rather than the later 1 kiloohm 2000s. I have a 2000E with intertwined 000s which measures as a 66, and that'll be the next cart I test this stylus on...
 
I had actually read on the forum that there were several types of 2000 E III and the first ones would seem to be clones of 66 with less impedance than the production that followed.
 
Indeed, there were two models labeled 2000 E III, and I have two cartridges with impedances of about 1050 ohms for each coil, so from the second production of the E III. But the question I ask myself then is whether the diamonds of the second series fit well with the first series, clone of the 66 models ?
 
Jeannot61 said:
Indeed, there were two models labeled 2000 E III, and I have two cartridges with impedances of about 1050 ohms for each coil, so from the second production of the E III. But the question I ask myself then is whether the diamonds of the second series fit well with the first series, clone of the 66 models ?
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They will fit (physically, mechanically) perfectly. However, the sound will have a little extra energy above say 5kHz.

As far as I know, there was no intentional or planned "first" and "second" models of the 2000E/III where the first measures ~300mH and the second measures ~600mH. The 2000Es with ~300mH likely came later when things became chaotic in Empire's factory, but there's no way to be absolutely sure when the mislabeled 2000E cartridges were produced.

Whatever the case, we know we must measure our 50-year-old cartridges to (1) be sure both channels operate (2) determine channel balance (the coils' inductances should match closely) and (3) tell us which styli (if we can find them) will deliver the intended/correct frequency response curve.

I hope that helps. I know we're dealing with different languages.
 
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Thank you very much, I have understood the whole explanation. I have the possibility to measure the resistance of each coil, but not of the inductance, so I will have to do some hearing tests to check if either of my two cells can cause any problem, especially in the high frequencies.
 
Hello everyone, here are my diamonds for my two Empire 2000 E III cartridges. Currently, I'm using the Zafira clone which is very good compared to tièrces productions like Tonar (667-DE), and then I'll attack with these NOS diamonds acquired very recently. I also made the comparison between a post-85 E III and pre-85 E II and E III. The post 85 cantilever is cylindrical and has a black dot to signify that the stylus is elliptical, whereas the pre-85 cantilevers are conical without the black point.

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The cut of the E II diamond is the same as the E III diamond, as proof, Pfanstiehl gave for both the same reference 237-DET, indicating just a difference in color between the E II and the E III.
Pfanstiehl 237.png
 
Hi everyone, still looking for the reference 237-DET of Pfanstiehl, I always come across the two possibilities which are for Empire 2000 E/II and Empire 2000 E/III. This confirms that E/II and E/III diamonds are compatible and interchangeable!
237-DET_2.png
 

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For what it’s worth if you have an original Empire stylus worn out or damaged it can be worth it to get it repaired instead of searching for a properly voiced aftermarket.

I have been working on setting up a used but new to me VPI Scout and have a few original s915e styli, one s2000z, and one s915e with a retip job w a slightly fancier tombstone cut LC diamond that wasn’t too much more than finding an original Empire. I think it is the best one of the bunch.

It might be worth it to get an original Empire stylus retipped if there’s a worry about finding an aftermarket that may work well.

Really enjoying the Empire 2008 cart right now. IMG_3464.jpegIMG_3465.jpegIMG_3466.jpeg
 
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I had the time to test the NOS Empire diamonds, they had been well stored and the suspensions remained supple like when they were new, and they are far better than the diamonds on the second-hand market, even the Tonar 667-DE which are good, are greatly surpassed by the quality of the NOS. Furthermore, I notice no difference between the E II diamonds and the E III diamonds, proof that they were cut in the same way, the only difference was the color of the plastic. As I explained earlier, Pfanstiehl had listed them the same and only the color differentiated them for ordering. And even, assuming there could be a difference, it would be minimal and not distinguishable by ear without specific equipment. So indeed, if there is a way to have a worn or damaged diamond repaired, it's worth doing it!
 
My guess is that it's strictly a matter of what's called "binning"-- the T styli were Z styli that did not quite reach spec in the QC process. There are other examples of this in Empire's earlier practice-- the 2000E/II and 2000E/III, for example. I'm confident that in running a T you're not audibly impoverished.
 
infullview said:
I’m running a 2000T NOS stylus on my 2000Z cart. Does anyone know what, if any, differences there are between the T and Z NOS stylus?
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I have both and the s2000T is the same as s915e for the 2000T, REX 600T, 2008, and other 2000T clones. The s2000z is the metallic gold version for the totl 2000Z cart. The difference if any is too hard to hear. I have read so many opinions and test on it but it doesn’t really seem to matter much at all. For all intentions they are the same.

Some of my nos sound like they might have a tiny amount more sparkle in the hf but it’s just too hard to tell if it’s true or maybe my brain playing tricks on me.

Use them and enjoy them. You will get better results with a proper setup vs swapping out a silver s2000t for gold s2000z.image.jpgimage.jpg
 
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