russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
Ummmmm One of my all time, favorite flavors
anyone else running vintage Empire carts?
- Thread starter gadget73
- Start date
Free Speaker
Member
I did some measuring. Had to take quite a few readings to be sure of the numbers but here goes: the 888P, that is NOS and was even still wrapped in plastic when I bought it, reads for inductance (left and right) 600mh and 591mh. Measured that one 3 times, all with similar results, with the rt channel being 9 mh lower than the left. So I measured a few others for comparison. My 999VE was 693 and 711, an 888SE was 435 and 422, a 999PEX was388 and 388, another 999PEX was 360 and 379, and my 999VE/X measured out to 747 and 749 (!). So that was fun.
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
Finally got hold of an original-style 888 body, an 888 PE. Channels match nicely (~650mH); weight with original unmarked yellow stylus: a porky 8.23g.
On top of the body, in tiny tiny numbers, is a patent, but not one of the patents filed by Empire's Harry Shaper for the 3-magnet variable-reluctance design; rather, it's one from 1953 assigned to inventor Earl M. Reiback for a "binaural" phono pickup. A quick look makes me wonder what part of this patent was useful to Empire. Kinda weird, expecially when you consider it's a vertical/lateral pickup being described, not a 45/45. #2875282A was, however, cited by Shaper in his 1966 3-magnet patent. Shure, CBS, Philips and EMI also cited Reiback, but all in the late 1950s when stereo on vinyl was the next big thing. Odd, that.
Notice the tab or tongue of metal projecting forward from the label. This engaged a channel in the original plastic stylus grips (photo below, right) and several folks have said the later "arrowhead" styli that arrived with the black-plastic mount wouldn't fit. My genuine S999VE stylus slips on and inserts all the way. Anyone have trouble with later styli?
View attachment 3527739#888PE
Last edited:
As referenced in this thread for a 990C/X -- https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/empire-990-c-x-cartridge.642763/
Am I good to pick up a 239-DET for it before Gary runs out?
Am I good to pick up a 239-DET for it before Gary runs out?
Welllll...
That stylus isn't for the 990C/X (a 66 clone), it's for the 2000Z, 2000T and a handful of clones.
I mean, grab the stylus while Gary's got it, especially at that price, but you'll have to hunt down one of the 2000Z/T/clone bodies for it. It'll fall right out of a 990C/X, and that's not the only problem.
That stylus isn't for the 990C/X (a 66 clone), it's for the 2000Z, 2000T and a handful of clones.
I mean, grab the stylus while Gary's got it, especially at that price, but you'll have to hunt down one of the 2000Z/T/clone bodies for it. It'll fall right out of a 990C/X, and that's not the only problem.
Thanks wualta, I was reading that old thread wrong and the Empire part numbers still confuse me a bit. It's the 239-PDE that would be the best option for that body? I found the 990 in a box of parts but I think I'll hold out for a better body as I’ve got some other brands that need attention/retips first.
Last edited:
Don't blame you a bit.
Yes, ideally you want the purple 239-PDE, the S912E. Many folks here have been trying to nail down a good NOS 239-PDE, purple or white, for years. But so many people have the same 66-clone body that demand remains high while supply is whoever-sees-it-first-gets-it. I had to go back in this thread ~12 years to see that once upon a time, Gary actually had the S910E and S912E styli in stock!
But the 239-DET's reappearance [now gone] is a happy bit of luck for those who have one of the 2000Z's clone bodies with a busted stylus.
Yes, ideally you want the purple 239-PDE, the S912E. Many folks here have been trying to nail down a good NOS 239-PDE, purple or white, for years. But so many people have the same 66-clone body that demand remains high while supply is whoever-sees-it-first-gets-it. I had to go back in this thread ~12 years to see that once upon a time, Gary actually had the S910E and S912E styli in stock!
But the 239-DET's reappearance [now gone] is a happy bit of luck for those who have one of the 2000Z's clone bodies with a busted stylus.
Last edited:
Rolls-Royce
Active Member
Or want an extra because of unknown mileage on the original...
russdall
An Uprooted Oklahoman
Cool !!!
Free Speaker
Member
Nice score! My 888P measured out at around 600 mh (a few posts back). Mine has that same metallic tab too, and the mouse-ears metal mount vs the airplane wing metal mount. The newer arrowhead styli fit just fine on mine too. Using a white 888TE stylus on it now. The 235-style of styli fit it too, with no poster putty required on it or on my 999VE body. The holes must just be a tad smaller, which would explain why the 888VE stylus won't fit the 999VE body. The 235VDE and 236ZDE styli will fit, but they don't work well for the same reason they don't work in the lower inductance 235 bodies. The little tab on the vde and zde styli don't allow the tube to go far enough into the 888/999 bodies to get enough volume output.
Nice snug fit of a 235-VDE in this 888 PE body too. It was holding onto its original stylus snugly as well. Snugger than the usual these days. I don't have my 999VE body with me, but will check the fit of the 888 "Pinkie" stylus when I do. Not definitive, I know, but the best I can do to duplicate your test.
MYSTERIOUS-LOOKING "PINKIE"
This puzzles me, since the snug 235-VDE (999 VE/X) inserts all the way into my 888 PE, likewise my 999 TE/X. Manufacturing tolerances? Running change (ie, typical Empire)? Has anyone else hit a snag swapping a 235 stylus into a 232 body? Maybe my 236-ZDE has this little tab, but that's in the Other Facility too.
235-VDE IN 888 PE BODY
Last edited:
Eddy1025
Active Member
Hey all, I have this Empire cart. that came on my Miracord 50H. Unfortunately I blasted the diamond off of it, shortly after I got it, and being very impressed by it.
Any ideas on the stylus options I can look for for it? Also, not sure if this makes any sense, but it seems like the needle itself can be removed and replaced from the stylus. Is this a sensible option to consider?
Any ideas on the stylus options I can look for for it? Also, not sure if this makes any sense, but it seems like the needle itself can be removed and replaced from the stylus. Is this a sensible option to consider?
Eddy1025
Active Member
That's what I was thinking. I'm trying to see if there are some options for the diamond shape. For example, if I wanted to try a nude elliptical in it, it looks very similar to the S2000 E/III Stylus. Any idea if it would fit?
A genuine 2000E/III stylus would fit just fine. The problem is finding an affordable one. If you're thinking of an aftermarket version of the 2000E/III, I can't recommend one myself, since the several I bought sounded tolerable to outright lousy and I long ago gave up wasting money. However, we know the aftermarket can make decent styli for Empires-- seems they just don't want to except on special occasions. Having said that, others who've tried the aftermarket more recently may have better news for you.
So: Anyone know of a good-sounding nude elliptical for the 66 or 2000 series?
As a fallback or interim stylus, there's always the genuine made-in-USA S906 (Pfanstiehl index 239-D7) conical sold by thevoiceofmusic.com for about $32 shipped. I fully understand the desire/need for a more sophisticated stylus, but I've been very impressed by the sound of Empire's conicals, and I'm not alone. Just something to keep in mind.
As for replacement of the diamond on an existing cantilever (the tiny metal tube that lost its end in your photos), that's possible but not exactly cheap, depending on how much work you want done and the sophistication of the diamond cut. Since your cantilever suffered damage, it may be necessary to replace cantilever and diamond. And that's assuming the rubber suspension grommet at the back of the cantilever is in good shape. Can of worms? It "can" be.
So: Anyone know of a good-sounding nude elliptical for the 66 or 2000 series?
As a fallback or interim stylus, there's always the genuine made-in-USA S906 (Pfanstiehl index 239-D7) conical sold by thevoiceofmusic.com for about $32 shipped. I fully understand the desire/need for a more sophisticated stylus, but I've been very impressed by the sound of Empire's conicals, and I'm not alone. Just something to keep in mind.
As for replacement of the diamond on an existing cantilever (the tiny metal tube that lost its end in your photos), that's possible but not exactly cheap, depending on how much work you want done and the sophistication of the diamond cut. Since your cantilever suffered damage, it may be necessary to replace cantilever and diamond. And that's assuming the rubber suspension grommet at the back of the cantilever is in good shape. Can of worms? It "can" be.
Last edited:
Eddy1025
Active Member
@wualta thanks for the detailed reply. Luckily I am not desperate, but merely curious about how it would sound with my current setup. It sounds like holding out for a NOS stylus is the best bet. I'll keep my eyes open, and maybe if I get impatient I'll try one of the less expensive aftermarket styli.
Is it the general consensus that even the Nico's aren't that good?
Is it the general consensus that even the Nico's aren't that good?
Rolls-Royce
Active Member
If you mean JICO, they are a pricier option. I've read they also tend to be "brighter" than the originals. I recently bought one of LPTunes' VividLine styli listed as being for the 2000E/III. I found it sounds better with the 66 and clones. The VL is bonded.
Eddy1025
Active Member
Yeah, sorry, auto correct got me there. Thanks for the feedback on those 2 pricier options. I had been looking at them.