• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

So sound hound, by "clip" are you referring to the copper grounding "plate" as I call it? Not sure what the proper name is. Do they just slide out? I'm just trying to understand. I've never opened one up except a Shure V-15 I sadly dropped and the entire back section with the pins popped off, breaking all the pin contacts.

I'm quite handy and have some 2000E clones with one bad channel I could practice on before attempting on a working cart.
If you are talking about the small metal clip on the ground pin, back of the cart, I don’t think it’s necessary to remove it and would not recommend it bc the 2000z has glue or epoxy in the back half securing the pins and wires in place. I have asked if one can be repaired and was told that it is not possible if the pins/wires are damaged. Not worth the risk if you have to a working cartridge.

I have had this problem with a 2000T and a metal headshell on a Sony turntable. Lots of hum. Solution was to use nylon washers and nylon bolts and nuts. Could use a small piece of paper to isolate aluminum fasteners as I also have used for a different Empire blob cart and another metal headshell.
 
Last edited:
If you are talking about the small metal clip on the ground pin, back of the cart, I don’t think it’s necessary to remove it and would not recommend it bc the 2000z has glue or epoxy in the back half securing the pins and wires in place.
Yes, that's what I am referring to and where the wire looks like it is originating from. I am getting no hum, it plays phenomenally. I'd like to keep it that way. I'm probably going to test the wire end for continuity with the pins and clip it if there is no continuity or solder it to the ground plate if it has continuity with that pin. But I am very appreciative of any other suggestions! No rush
 
That's what I was thinking, too, because normally, that little "clip" just bears against the inside of the shell and over the ground pin to provide continuity between the two. There is no wire involved.

BTW, BIC originally recommended removing the little "clip" on metal-bodied cartridges to avoid ground loops with their conductive headshells. Later, they sold nylon screws and insulators instead. They probably realized it wasn't the best idea to recommend the typical user to be prying around on the cartridge back there. Also, 'tis better to leave the shell connected (grounded) to the ground circuit of the cartridge for better regular hum rejection. That's why I never did it the original way.

Doug
 
That's what I was thinking, too, because normally, that little "clip" just bears against the inside of the shell and over the ground pin to provide continuity between the two. There is no wire involved.

BTW, BIC originally recommended removing the little "clip" on metal-bodied cartridges to avoid ground loops with their conductive headshells. Later, they sold nylon screws and insulators instead. They probably realized it wasn't the best idea to recommend the typical user to be prying around on the cartridge back there. Also, 'tis better to leave the shell connected (grounded) to the ground circuit of the cartridge for better regular hum rejection. That's why I never did it the original way.

Doug
^ What he said!
 
Yes, that's what I am referring to and where the wire looks like it is originating from. I am getting no hum, it plays phenomenally. I'd like to keep it that way. I'm probably going to test the wire end for continuity with the pins and clip it if there is no continuity or solder it to the ground plate if it has continuity with that pin. But I am very appreciative of any other suggestions! No rush
If it’s working fine now, I definitely would not recommend soldering anything on the tailend next to the pins. The blobs are very delicate at the pins. A repair person who has worked on one of mine warned me that the fine wire to the pins can be damaged and impossible to repair if you lose continuity to the pins.

Use nylon hardware to connect them to metal headshells if you have any hum. Been through this a few times with a Sony T-3 table and it’s metal headshell and a hitachi table when using a 66 Rex. Lots of hum when directly attached with metal hardware. Can also use a paper gasket cut out from a heavy sheet of paper. I used one for the Sony until I obtained nylon hardware. I just cut out a small rectangular piece of paper that sat on top of the cart sandwiched in between the cart and headshell. Used a small drill bit to cut two round holes through the paper for the threaded bolts to go through.

Good luck with your endeavors.
 
So sound hound, by "clip" are you referring to the copper grounding "plate" as I call it? Not sure what the proper name is. Do they just slide out?

Sorry for not getting back sooner. Thankfully, others have been very helpful here. Just to clarify, when I looked at the picture you originally provided on this, it looked like maybe the tiny wire was something that got stuck in the connecting clip from the headshell. That is what I was referring to, that you might remove to see if the wire might come off. Also, to reinforce what others have said, Never, Never use a soldering iron around the cartridge pins, unless you know the potential consequences this can have inside the cartridge. It may be the quickest way to destroy a cartridge.
 
Here's a little lesson I learned, gosh, almost 50 years ago with Empire blobs.

I bought a BIC 980 from Heathkit in March of 1976 and an Empire 2000 E/III came mounted. It wasn't long after I started using it that it dropped a channel. Upon inspection, I noticed that the wire to the ground pin didn't seem to be completely soldered. I thought, "If just touch the tip of a soldering iron super quickly to the pin, it might reflow and fix it."

Well, it did fix it but, to my horror, it instantly softened the plastic around the pin and the pin was loose after the plastic cooled. I epoxied the pin back into place and it still works fine to this day but yeah, no soldering directly to pins!

Doug
 
Here's a little lesson I learned, gosh, almost 50 years ago with Empire blobs.

I bought a BIC 980 from Heathkit in March of 1976 and an Empire 2000 E/III came mounted. It wasn't long after I started using it that it dropped a channel. Upon inspection, I noticed that the wire to the ground pin didn't seem to be completely soldered. I thought, "If just touch the tip of a soldering iron super quickly to the pin, it might reflow and fix it."

Well, it did fix it but, to my horror, it instantly softened the plastic around the pin and the pin was loose after the plastic cooled. I epoxied the pin back into place and it still works fine to this day but yeah, no soldering directly to pins!

Doug

Exactly this ^ Doug! Spot on great advice. No soldering on the pins of the blob carts.
 
The models are voiced differently. See here.
yes correct. But are the cantilever housing to the cartridge fittings will they slide in and are they physically the same? I just wanna try to physically fit something so I can get both. Because there are after markets that doesnt wanna slide in and I just wanna make sure.
Thanks R
 
As long as the stylus shank is the same type and size, then yes it should fit. Just remember,the 4000 D's are low inductance and the 2000's are high. BUT....I myself often switch styli around on different blobs and chunkies to achieve different results. Ya just never know...until you hear it. Some combos work...some don't. Just remember the 2000z and clones have a smaller stylus shank and will not fit the 4000 series. Have Fun!!!
 
As long as the styli shank is the same type and size, then yes it should fit. Just remember,the 4000 D's are low inductance and the 2000's are high. BUT....I myself often switch styli around on different blobs to achieve different results. Ya just never know...until you hear it. Some combos work...some don't. Just remember the 2000z and clones have a smaller stylus shank and will not fit the 4000 series. Have Fun!!!
That's the info that I need to know. I bought one for a different stylus and the shank almost fit but dont want to. But I don't want to force it. In this way I have a physical reference.
Thank you again!
 
That's the info that I need to know. I bought one for a different stylus and the shank almost fit but dont want to. But I don't want to force it. In this way I have a physical reference.
Thank you again!

Some aftermarket styli replacement have shanks that are just a bit tight and will require some very firm insertion force. I have a couple of those and I was hesitant about using them. But once inserted they were fine and worked well.

Just make sure you don’t have a 2000z or 2000t (or their clone models like 2008) because they have and require a unique shank that is 1/2 the size of all other blob cartridges. For example, if a 66e/x or 2000e has a 1/8” shank, a 2000z cartridge will have a 1/16” shank.

So to answer your original question, yes you can use one blob cartridge stylus for another with the exception of the 1/2 sized shank 2000z/2000t cartridges or their respective clone models.

The hole size is obviously different and is clearly visible once you have a 2000z cart next to a 2000e model (or any of those clones)

It’s unfortunate that Empire decided to make basically 4 different designs in the same body shape and then decided to give these 4 models (4000d,66,2000, and the small shank 2000z) literally hundreds of different model numbers even though they will fall into one of the 4 families.

What makes it even more confusing is the suffix on some of the models like 2000e vs 2000z makes all of the difference.

But any of the first 3, 4000d, 66, or 2000e models all have the exact same size styli and they all will fit in one another , even if they are very snug or tight.

The biggest difference between any of those ORIGINAL Empire styli is the amount of high frequency response (hf sparkle) that you get when you swap out one for the other. They are voiced differently for different modes. For example a 66 e/x is voiced differently than a 2000e/iii. The 66 has lower inductance and inherently will have more hf response than a higher inductance cart like the 2000e given the same stylus. So Empire voiced each of their designs to be “flat” as possible within the given design and diamond cut.

That’s getting a bit more complex than what your asking about but I thought you might want to know. It’s not something that is to worry about too much because I have swapped out a lot of them and they all perform great and are very enjoyable. Depends more on your setup and hearing abilities as we age.

The biggest difference and most important thing that I’ve run across is the difference between original Empire styli versus modern replacement styli made overseas. They mostly have a different sound to them and in my experience about 70 % of the time they have too much midrange push. Annoyingly so. Some sounded terrible that I returned them. But some sounded good enough to keep and use.

But the original empire styli or ones manufactured back in 1960,70s, or 80s for Empire all sounded as good or better than current aftermarket’s.

Hope this helps.
 
Never be afraid to experiment, to try this stylus with that body to hear what happens.

Sometimes there are good reasons for mismatching styli and bodies. For instance, if you have a worn but irreplaceable LP with a lot of ticks and clicks, putting a 4000D stylus in a 2000E body will suppress the top octave and make the disc more listenable.
I have a 2000e iii with the clear stylus and it’s my favorite cart
Just acquired another with the root beer color stylus and it needs heavy tracking,
Is this normal?
I like the root beer description. That sounds like the conical member of the family, the 2000, which if original does require more vertical tracking force (VTF)-- up to 3 grams, though it will probably be perfectly happy at 2. If it's an aftermarket/generic stylus, you have to experiment to find where it's best able to track your LPs.
 
Back
Top Bottom