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Anyone know why McIntosh just discontinued so many products all of a sudden?

Logan_Nolag

Logan_Nolag

Active Member
It seems like McIntosh just retired a whole bunch of products all at once including stuff like the C8, C49, MDA200, MR89 and all of their tube amps except for the MC275.

I can’t remember them ever discontinuing this many products all at once especially without having already releasing a successor.
 
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The products are retired but still available, probably until stock runs out.
It’s also possible the sales numbers aren’t what is needed to sustain the product. That and the fact there are new upgraded replacements means there’s no need for older models to stick around and take sales away from the new product lines.
 
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Yeah I get that but the weird part is that there aren’t actually any newer versions of any of the retired products except for the MC2KW. Typically McIntosh only discontinues a product when the successor comes out but in this case they just wholesale killed the lines without releasing any successors.
 
This is unexpected. Especially now there are no high power tube amps in the lineup with the MC 2301 and MC 3500 on the way out. Even the MC 1502 is a goner and it’s just a kid, what, maybe 5 yo?

I wonder if McIntosh is having problems securing enough tubes? 8 in the 2301 and 1502. Single source ones for the 3500.

The SS lineup is still together as are the integrated amplifiers. The integration products seem to be unaffected as well. Apart from the in-wall speakers, which were not competitive.

I do think there has been a proliferation of products in the past 5 years. For example mashups of existing designs like a couple of monobloc amps having tube HF and SS LF sections and a crossover. No real engineering to do on that one. Just repackage what you’ve already designed.
 
Logan_Nolag said:
Yeah I get that but the weird part is that there aren’t actually any newer versions of any of the retired products except for the MC2KW. Typically McIntosh only discontinues a product when the successor comes out but in this case they just wholesale killed the lines without releasing any successors.
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Well, the C8 (tube) and C49 (SS) are both 2 channel preamps, which McIntosh has plenty of. The MDA200 D/A converter comes with the D/A 2 Module installed, but so do probably a dozen of McIntosh preamps/integrated amps. The MAC7200 and MHT300 receivers do the same plus more than the MR89 tuner ever could, and tuners are a dying breed anyway.
 
The 3500 lived a short life, I can see those becoming very collectible. If I were still in the hoarding part of my audio journey I’d probably buy a pair and a spare set of tubes, just to have them.

Although there is a lot of mortality in there, much like @eiraved I struggle to see any holes in the remaining lineup.

Probably a simple matter of cleaning up slow-sellers and redundancy, helping McIntosh to cut costs without cutting the quality of their offerings, and honestly I never understood the draw to hybrid amps (but then I’m not much of a modern tube fan either).

Move along, nothing to see here, … :angel:
 
Could be they’ve sold out of their initial run of amps and now their Chinese OEM is upping prices on materials, plus tariffs, plus whatever else so their margin no longer meets their expected IRR.

Money makers aren’t normally discontinued. That is, one doesn’t usually slaughter the golden goose.

Modern Mac is basically Las Vegas anyhow, so whatever.
 
??
You do know that they do a lot of their own manufacturing, in the US?

Apparently you’re not a Mc customer / aren’t familiar with their engineering and build quality. I’m not in love with a lot of their firmware-heavy devices but most of their hardware is first-rate. “Las Vegas”? I don’t agree.
 
:rolleyes: Can you see signatures?

And hey, Las Vegas has some nice buildings but it’s for a particular kind of customer.

Do you think McIntosh makes their own chassis (polished SS is cost cutting btw), manufactures all the parts that go into their transformers, all the switches and jacks and sockets? Do they still have an assembly line of ladies in Binghampton building the turret boards and wiring everything? Who made their tubes anyhow (not like they were ever in the tube business anyway), Russians or Chinese? Maybe Slovakians? Hmm.

Obviously it’s a globalized world and people have long gotten their parts from all sorts of places. Back when my amp and preamp were made, Lafayette Radio supplied them with many odds and ends. They did most of the manufacturing themselves, typical for the time. My comment above is more indicative of some manufacturers dropping products because their components - which they don’t make - are too expensive and they don’t make enough money on each to afford units sitting around and it’s not like they make things to order. But hey if their suppliers were in Binghampton then maybe they could.

Anyway you ought to apologize.
 
eiraved said:
Well, the C8 (tube) and C49 (SS) are both 2 channel preamps, which McIntosh has plenty of. The MDA200 D/A converter comes with the D/A 2 Module installed, but so do probably a dozen of McIntosh preamps/integrated amps. The MAC7200 and MHT300 receivers do the same plus more than the MR89 tuner ever could, and tuners are a dying breed anyway.
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That's all true but the C8 and C49 were their most affordable preamps. Now their cheapest preamp is the C22. Also the MDA200 was a great companion piece to the C22 and C12000 both of which don't have a built in DAC. Now your only choice for a DAC is the DS200 or MCD12000.
 
Apologize for not agreeing? That’s interesting. Not going to happen, this is a discussion forum and we are expected to politely disagree.

As a manufacturer of electronics in the US as well, and having worked for electronics manufacturers in the US for 40+ years I am quite familiar with the complexity of the supply chain and that there are components that are available only from certain suppliers in certain countries, This has been the case at least since the semiconductor hit its stride in the 1960s. Some of our parts, chips in particular, are only available from Asian suppliers. When parts become obsolete (a lot of that happened during the plant closures in the Covid scamdemic) there is no option on the primary market for chips, products that use them either need to be substantially redesigned or become obsolete, that is a business decision.

Regardless, McIntosh is an American manufacturing company, and there is substantial manufacturing of their core product in the US including some of their suppliers. There are many companies that have abandoned all of their US suppliers and manufacturing operations to partner with low bidders for the entire product, this is not McIntosh (and we hope it won’t be).

Whether McIntosh sources some or all of their stampings in the US, or circuit-boards (they don’t use turrets anymore), stuffing, etc. overseas is important but I can tell you with confidence that there is no amplifier that is 100% US sourced, it will all be a matter of percent of content plus final assembly and I’m happy that McIntosh still does at least some of this within the US.

I (we) don’t know the why of each obsolescence, likely a combination of things but McIntosh (as a division of BOSE or independently) needs to turn a profit to justify its existence. Given the two choices of streamlining the product offering to products that make money, or offshoring everything I think I’d choose the former. There is of course a “door #3 where BOSE simply retools the entire product line to become a handful of products that leverage the good McIntosh name on a bunch of cheap offshore products for maximum profit, car/mobile audio, lifestyle products, lets it exist in name only which even Clarion didn’t do, … hopefully BOSE won’t either.

<edit>

I will add that any product that is based on the quality of Russian or Chinese only sources for tubes just doesn’t make sense to me. It is volatile and there is no guarantee of quality or performance, not even that they will replace tooling as it wears out and create parts for these short-lived core components as they fail. I would have supported discontinuing these products and any development of new tube-based products long ago to leave them for the small cottage-industry manufacturers. McIntosh chased these dollars for long enough and it didn’t hurt them yet, maybe it never will.
 
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SaturationPt said:
Apologize for not agreeing? That’s interesting. Not going to happen, this is a discussion forum and we are expected to politely disagree.

As a manufacturer of electronics in the US as well, and having worked for electronics manufacturers in the US for 40+ years I am quite familiar with the complexity of the supply chain and that there are components that are available only from certain suppliers in certain countries, This has been the case at least since the semiconductor hit its stride in the 1960s. Some of our parts, chips in particular, are only available from Asian suppliers. When parts become obsolete (a lot of that happened during the plant closures in the Covid scamdemic) there is no option on the primary market for chips, products that use them either need to be substantially redesigned or become obsolete, that is a business decision.

Regardless, McIntosh is an American manufacturing company, and there is substantial manufacturing of their core product in the US including some of their suppliers. There are many companies that have abandoned all of their US suppliers and manufacturing operations to partner with low bidders for the entire product, this is not McIntosh (and we hope it won’t be).

Whether McIntosh sources some or all of their stampings in the US, or circuit-boards (they don’t use turrets anymore), stuffing, etc. overseas is important but I can tell you with confidence that there is no amplifier that is 100% US sourced, it will all be a matter of percent of content plus final assembly and I’m happy that McIntosh still does at least some of this within the US.

I (we) don’t know the why of each obsolescence, likely a combination of things but McIntosh (as a division of BOSE or independently) needs to turn a profit to justify its existence. Given the two choices of streamlining the product offering to products that make money, or offshoring everything I think I’d choose the former. There is of course a “door #3 where BOSE simply retools the entire product line to become a handful of products that leverage the good McIntosh name on a bunch of cheap offshore products for maximum profit, car/mobile audio, lifestyle products, lets it exist in name only which even Clarion didn’t do, … hopefully BOSE won’t either.
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Right, but I don’t even know what you’re trying to say, or with what you’re even disagreeing. You did make a very knee jerk and presumptuous reply though and then more or less restated what I said in different (longer) terms but somehow said less.
 
Your perception of my reply being knee-jerk presumptuous seems presumptuous to me as well, so I guess we will have to disagree on that also. It was observational and if you are saying we largely agree then I guess we move on.
 
cicada_shell said:
:rolleyes: Can you see signatures?

And hey, Las Vegas has some nice buildings but it’s for a particular kind of customer.

Do you think McIntosh makes their own chassis (polished SS is cost cutting btw), manufactures all the parts that go into their transformers, all the switches and jacks and sockets? Do they still have an assembly line of ladies in Binghampton building the turret boards and wiring everything? Who made their tubes anyhow (not like they were ever in the tube business anyway), Russians or Chinese? Maybe Slovakians? Hmm.

Obviously it’s a globalized world and people have long gotten their parts from all sorts of places. Back when my amp and preamp were made, Lafayette Radio supplied them with many odds and ends. They did most of the manufacturing themselves, typical for the time. My comment above is more indicative of some manufacturers dropping products because their components - which they don’t make - are too expensive and they don’t make enough money on each to afford units sitting around and it’s not like they make things to order. But hey if their suppliers were in Binghampton then maybe they could.

Anyway you ought to apologize.
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Yes they do make their own chassis, glass, transformers etc as a matter of fact.
 
Probably moving toward car audio OEM systems.

The global OEM car stereo market is $12 billion dollars.
The "Audiophile" home stereo market is about $10 billion. (2025)
 
Logan_Nolag said:
Also the MDA200 was a great companion piece to the C22 and C12000 both of which don't have a built in DAC. Now your only choice for a DAC is the DS200 or MCD12000.
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The heart of the MDA200 is the McIntosh DA2 Digital Audio Module, which resides in much of their equipment. Unfortunately the DS200 and MCD12000 D/A modules aren't upgradeable to the DA2 module.
 
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