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Anyone remember an ADS delay unit for running rear speakers with 2 channel stereo?

sqlsavior

sqlsavior

Lunatic Member
I'm not certain that it was made by ADS, but I think so - I think that's why I took it seriously and demonstrated it to customers. A black box, maybe 4 inches high, and less than rack width. It had controls which set the delay time for the rear speakers, to simulate different sized music halls, and produced a manufactured 'echo' from your rear speakers. Kind of an electronic reverb on steroids, but a consumer item, not a pro-audio unit. This was way before DSP, back in '79 or so...
 
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I remember something of the sort but, I believe what I'm thinking of is a actual reverb that was very basic at the time for autos. That's all I can recall.
 
Yes, I remember those. They were a bucket brigade type of delay for adding some "absence" to the sound - sort of an early attempt at surround sound. And it was ADS that made those. I think the time is right - 1979 or maybe 1980.
 
ADS Model 10 Acoustic Dimension Synthesizer (early 1980's)
(there's one for sell on the bay right now - NA)
 
Thanks guys! What a resource this place is! :) Without the 'Model 10' or the phrase 'Acoustic Dimension Synthesizer', I was getting nowhere with google.

Here's a high-res picture - interesting controls: https://goo.gl/images/TTN1ma

Anyone else hear one? What did you think?
 
YES! I bought one when they first came out, and I still have it. It is a digital device, so not bucket brigade but rather shift registers. 3.5" tall with optional rack ears. They also made the Model 10 01 which did not include the 100WPC amp. There were many companies making similar devices at that time, I heard most, and the ADS was by far the best. The source ambiance extraction was, as best as I can recall, unique to ADS. So, it could do ambiance extraction or synthesis. Alas, hifitommy is correct, not all that reliable. The CMOS shift registers would fail easily. For a while, ADS sold TTL replacements, but those use considerably more power and replacing a few shift registers would then overload the regulator for the logic. After dicking around with it numerous times, I eventually unhooked the power to the delay boards and now just use it as a power amp. Sigh.

Even before it failed outright, I'd already removed it from my main system. While the spaciousness was extremely nice, the noise just got to me after a while. I then discovered a use for the Model 10 with subwoofers, which didn't have a noise issue, and I found new love for it again. That's when the shift register issues came up. The subwoofer trick was so amazing that I've contemplated DIYing a modern version that does essentially the same thing. I'll get right to it as soon as I knock off the other 20 things from my To Do list (perhaps).
 
Koss made one. I don't know if it was digital or not. It had settings like a surround sound amp. Hall, club, etc.
 
House de Kris said:
YES! I bought one when they first came out, and I still have it. It is a digital device, so not bucket brigade but rather shift registers. 3.5" tall with optional rack ears. They also made the Model 10 01 which did not include the 100WPC amp. There were many companies making similar devices at that time, I heard most, and the ADS was by far the best. The source ambiance extraction was, as best as I can recall, unique to ADS. So, it could do ambiance extraction or synthesis. Alas, hifitommy is correct, not all that reliable. The CMOS shift registers would fail easily. For a while, ADS sold TTL replacements, but those use considerably more power and replacing a few shift registers would then overload the regulator for the logic. After dicking around with it numerous times, I eventually unhooked the power to the delay boards and now just use it as a power amp. Sigh.

Even before it failed outright, I'd already removed it from my main system. While the spaciousness was extremely nice, the noise just got to me after a while. I then discovered a use for the Model 10 with subwoofers, which didn't have a noise issue, and I found new love for it again. That's when the shift register issues came up. The subwoofer trick was so amazing that I've contemplated DIYing a modern version that does essentially the same thing. I'll get right to it as soon as I knock off the other 20 things from my To Do list (perhaps).
Click to expand...


What is the subwoofer trick?? I can get a Model 10 in working condition for $100, would love to incorporate it into my setup but don't really have a use for it, UNLESS I use it for something like that.
 
I remember this. A very cool device, but as others have noted, not quiet or reliable enough. Some years later Audio Research had a similar but much higher quality device, but I don't think it lasted long on the market.
 
The 1989 Audio Equipment Directory (last one I have) lists an Audio Research SDP1, Variable Delay. There is no listing for the ADS device.
 
zunde said:
What is the subwoofer trick?? I can get a Model 10 in working condition for $100, would love to incorporate it into my setup but don't really have a use for it, UNLESS I use it for something like that.
Click to expand...
Rather than type out the description again, I'll just give you a link to a thread I started almost exactly 12 years ago to the day. In that thread, there's a broken link to a previous discussion on the Model 10 where I included a block diagram of this device. This is the fixed link.

Really, with subwoofers this unit makes for some of the smoothest deep bass in smallish rooms that I've ever heard. I'm sorta surprised this idea never really gained ANY traction. I even wrote about it on the BASSLIST (how we did things before the WWW), and got zero interest. One other tidbit I don't think I mentioned in previous threads (I only did a quick scan of the past writing), is how I had it wired into my system. By that time I was using a Theta Casablanca preamp and was enjoying DD and DTS movies in addition to 2-channel audio. The front channels were tetra-amplified and the rear channels bi-amplified. Because the ADS has a tape monitor switch on it, this implies it has the capability to switch between two different input sources. When playing movies where I wanted the rear channels to work as normal, I selected an input which came from the low-outputs of the rear crossover and put the delay in bypass mode. When listening to 2-channel music, I'd select the input to the Model 10 to be the front channels and use appropriate delays to give the great bass effect. Ah, the best of both worlds.
 
Lavane said:
Koss made one. I don't know if it was digital or not. It had settings like a surround sound amp. Hall, club, etc.
Click to expand...
If my fuzzy memory can be trusted, I believe the Koss was the only device that used RAM for its storage. If these types of boxes were made today, that's how it would be done. Uh, probably.
 
I run a 4 speaker, 2 channel system without any delay of any kind and it works very well, but you have to have the right kind of speakers and one of the amps needs a volume control (to balance it). My rear speakers are the JBL S109 Aquarius IV and the mains are the JBL Studio 530s. Its like listening to headphones, only with the air of speakers.

Dynaco/Dynakit had a quad-adaptor that required only an amplifier with all negative speaker output terminals connected together (commonly called "common ground"), and it sent out of phase material embedded in the music to the rear speakers. In an ideal set-up, all the speakers should be the same, but most do not have that arrangement on hand, so watch the impedance, and they should have the same efficiency rating (example: 90db/m/w). That device also requires a "common ground" type of amplifier (which almost all of them are).
 
House de Kris said:
If my fuzzy memory can be trusted, I believe the Koss was the only device that used RAM for its storage. If these types of boxes were made today, that's how it would be done. Uh, probably.
Click to expand...
The one I heard was around 1980. It had around four knobs. Labeled Koss Time Delay System.
 
In 1980 I purchased an Audio Pulse Digital Time Delay unit, it was not cheap.
It added two channels to the rear with various levels of delay. It worked very well for a few years, then one day it had a plume of smoke arise out of it during a listening sessions. I still have the unit , but I never bothered to try and repair it.
 
Model 10 came in two flavors, preamp-only with wood side panels or powered with a 100WPC amp to drive the rear surrounds, with cooling fins on the side.

Have had examples of both, at least one of which worked... it was interesting but with the drawbacks mentioned, not something I'd use in any of my current (or then) systems.

Also have one of the Advent 500 processors, which has a terminal buzz issue I have yet to get around to resolving. It's newer and digital vs. the old school logic in the Model 10 but probably equally unlikely to make it into one of my systems. I just couldn't resist the chance to check one out for cheap, plus it came in the original box w/manual etc. and it has the same cosmetics as the model 350 receiver which I also have a casual interest in.

John
 
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